Fire Warnings

AaronM

Likes Dirt
Mikes right, military assets are extremely useful to support logistics (as we are seeing right now), but that’s because support logistics are very common between emergency and warfare situations.

Dual-role tactical functions not so much. It’s no different to trying to use a DH MTB as a commuter for 20km of road riding. You can do it, but it just outright doesn’t make sense. Military hardware is also massively more expensive to operate per hour. The fuel burn, maintenance cycle and so on are far lesser considerations compared to their role capability.

Converting our C130’s to Fire Support roles would be useful if we didn’t life-cycle to the margins of their effective service life in Defence use anyway.

Coulsons C130 probably has a few more airframe hours up its sleeve but C130’s are very rarely available to civilian purchase (there’s like 4! globally in non-government hands). That said using Airforce C130’s and C17’s to get the right firefighting equipment where it’s needed would be smart.

The best bet is 737 based airframe conversions, they are far more readily supported on the ground, can do logistics and water bombing. They have the deployment speed and range to be operating anywhere in Australia within 12 hours from cold-start and realistically we would need maybe 4 of them nationally as any more than 2 operating in a single fire zone would be pretty risky.

Do we a national capability - yes - but part of that needs to be buying capabilities that can dovetail around assets we have for other purposes. Should we have a National pool of firefighting hardware (trucks, tankers logistics support gear) that perhaps is managed and mobilised by Defence? Maybe - that’s starting to sound a little like some of the USA National Guard roles, and that perhaps isn’t a terrible thing.
 

moorey

call me Mia
Every fire is different. Every situation is different. We know more now than with any previous fires.
My elderly neighbour stayed to defend in both of the 2 fires that forced our evacuation recently. He built the place, he was of the opinion he’d rather die trying to save it.
Both times, a wind change saved him/us. There was zero chance he could have defended it in our thick bush in those conditions, and there was no escape route for him if it got to his house.
I’m not saying all people who stay in these situations are stupid...but I believe that almost all are dangerously naive and unprepared.
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
The current government, now and into the very near future have a very big job on their hands, the way fires and forests are managed at present is clearly not working and new methods will need to be adopted.
as it stands now, we have been left very vunerable at both a resources and assets level, not enough full timers and RFS/CFA to comfortably support change over shifts..we seem to have crews stretched from pillar to post to 4 corners of the country, and this is surely coming at a great cost to all the people at the fire front.
How long can these guys and girls go on like this before they all start to loose their edge.
It seems like to me that the government have marched all these people into no mans land like cannon fodder without any real backup, and all they can think about is that they hope that their holiday house doesn't burn down
 

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
Underprepared... it is like body armour for mx. Two levels, not enough and nowhere near fucking enough.

I built this place and given the lack of trees/grass, fire pumps and water supply it is easily defensible against fire. If it wasn't I would have a box of essentials ready to go and the 4wd full of fuel. Probably have the camper ready too but that could stay if push came to shove.

When we were camping we had various fire evacuation plans. 1 hour notice or more meant the whole camp was packed and gone. 1/2 hour and the camper packed but kayaks, bike, table and chairs, gazebo etc left behind. Time and tide to drive out on the beach then just us and the 4wd, less time / no beach then run into the water and keep running.
 

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
Problem isnt the forests it is the people who live in and around the forests. If there was no risk to people and peoperty a different strategy could be adopted.
 

moorey

call me Mia
Problem isnt the forests it is the people who live in and around the forests. If there was no risk to people and peoperty a different strategy could be adopted.
Pretty much. Me included.
Staying with BIL up in NSW currently. He’s a park ranger, and a firey. All his redneck mates be telling him we should adopt the indigenous policy of regular massive burns.
They forget that they are now heavily populated areas and cities unlike tens of thousands of years ago.
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
if you lived a nomadic life and a massive fire was heading in your direction, you would just walk off in another direction and wait for it to all blow over..
its naive to think that this hasn't happened countless times before, just not in the last 100 or so years.
if you want to live in the bush or very near it, why are we still building houses out of stuff that burns easily?
 

gippyz

Likes Dirt
if you lived a nomadic life and a massive fire was heading in your direction, you would just walk off in another direction and wait for it to all blow over..
its naive to think that this hasn't happened countless times before, just not in the last 100 or so years.
if you want to live in the bush or very near it, why are we still building houses out of stuff that burns easily?
Maybe then people in the bush should live in a mobile home or caravan? not a bad idea actually.
 

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
its naive to think that this hasn't happened countless times before, just not in the last 100 or so years.
if you want to live in the bush or very near it, why are we still building houses out of stuff that burns easily?
Lightning must have started many similar fires in the past. Time will tell if this is an armageddon event or just something that does happen but not that frequently and not in our European colonial memory.

Building houses that wouldn't be out of place in Europe primarily of wood and other flammable materials and putting them next to forests where trees loaded with eucalyptus oil and loads of leaf litter will build up has to end badly sooner or later.

We have all rode in these places and the more I've seen them then the more I'm happier to visit only.

The houses need to be portable or be a concrete bunker. I don't kniw how else you could do it and have a fighting chance when it all goes up eventually.
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
concrete tilt panels and water deluge systems charged with your own grey water would go along way to protecting your home.
Its unlikely that insurance companies are willing to accept the current events as an act of god for much longer, we are either going to be faced with huge insurance premiums or simply not cover people who show no fire mitigation strategies.
 

cokeonspecialtwodollars

Fartes of Portingale
concrete tilt panels and water deluge systems charged with your own grey water would go along way to protecting your home.
Its unlikely that insurance companies are willing to accept the current events as an act of god for much longer, we are either going to be faced with huge insurance premiums or simply not cover people who show no fire mitigation strategies.
I remember reading something a few years back about concrete tilt panel buildings having terrible fire ratings, something about the intense heat warping the steel beams and allowing the concrete structure to collapse. I built our house out of Hebel blocks but we still have a timber trusses in the roof. If I had my time again I'd build underground.
 

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
we are either going to be faced with huge insurance premiums or simply not cover people who show no fire mitigation strategies.
Yep, I'm waiting for the insurance sector to be crying poor about the amount of payouts in the next 2-3 months then announcing price increases by June.
 

indica

Serial flasher
“There is potential for the fire to break out, cross the (Warragamba) dam and move into the western suburbs of Sydney,” Mr Fitzsimmons told reporters on Saturday morning.
 

moorey

call me Mia
Ok Boomers.
You can’t complain about urban sprawl and overcrowding cities AND complain about people not living in the cities.
Also, you realise that many people living in these threatened communities are there to provide goods and services for you city folk.
I’m seeing victim blaming.
 

FigBo0T

Puts verniers on his headtube
Ok Boomers.
You can’t complain about urban sprawl and overcrowding cities AND complain about people not living in the cities.
Also, you realise that many people living in these threatened communities are there to provide goods and services for you city folk.
I’m seeing victim blaming.
Stop doing logic.
Some of us live in the bush because that's what we want to do.
Them gawdarn cityslickers, driving all reckless 'n' sheet, are costing us so much in car insurance premiums ..... mutter-mumble
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
Ok Boomers.
You can’t complain about urban sprawl and overcrowding cities AND complain about people not living in the cities.
Also, you realise that many people living in these threatened communities are there to provide goods and services for you city folk.
I’m seeing victim blaming.
do what now?
who is complaining about urban sprawl and over crowding?...although, yes it is shit but not worth complaining about!
fine then, you country folks can set up your own stock market and government services..
we can manufacture food out of seaweed and recycled plastic, we don't need no stinking farmers bumping up our insurance premiums.
 
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