FoxRidersCo
Sanity is not statistical
2011 Fox 32 with Kashima coating
Gold Stanctions on Fox 2011 forks
- Thread starter Rider15
- Start date
dhDRucer
Likes Dirt
i read somewhere a while ago in a fox arcticle that whne asked why they dont use this coating in production is beacuse over a period of time the coating wears alot faster then normal.Thats why they only used them on factory rides where they hcan change the fork or stantion all the time
And now look about a year down the track they bring them into production
And now look about a year down the track they bring them into production
Tomas
my mum says im cool
Blatant negative speculation with no actual evidence to back it up. Fox has more brand equity in MTB that most others mass producing companies - I dont expect them to release a fork that'll wear out in under a season or two.
'Simply adding 500g' - that is so so so out of context it's not funny. The only thing worse than internet speculation is psudo-research-based-speculation.
Pebble
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Well can people notice any difference between anodized stanchions and nickel coated stanchions? If you can't then no point spending any extra for these unless of course you're buying them for the look.
Are chromed (nickel?) stanchions any smoother than anodized ones?
Anyway I personally prefer the look and durability of the chrome (nickel?) stanchions, so if the new Kashmir is at least more durable and smoother than the anodized stanchions then it would be something I'd consider, but otherwise no thanks.
At the end of the day the most important question to a non racer like me would be "how easy are they to scratch?". Now I gather to people who are serious about racing durability probalby plays 2nd fiddle to performance and weight. So it depends which market Fox is aiming these at, perhaps they're not that much for your average Joe Boggs, perhaps they are for Mr Racer Guy.
It's a consumer society, marketing is a part of it so just accept it, if you don't believe the hype then you won't buy the product, as simple as that. And perhaps in that case you're the kind of guy or gal who would never buy something before it's been tested and reviewed by others anyway. Some people will buy it because they believe marketing, some will buy it because it's new technology and others might buy it for the looks, it's their money and their choice at the end of the day, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Are chromed (nickel?) stanchions any smoother than anodized ones?
Anyway I personally prefer the look and durability of the chrome (nickel?) stanchions, so if the new Kashmir is at least more durable and smoother than the anodized stanchions then it would be something I'd consider, but otherwise no thanks.
At the end of the day the most important question to a non racer like me would be "how easy are they to scratch?". Now I gather to people who are serious about racing durability probalby plays 2nd fiddle to performance and weight. So it depends which market Fox is aiming these at, perhaps they're not that much for your average Joe Boggs, perhaps they are for Mr Racer Guy.
It's a consumer society, marketing is a part of it so just accept it, if you don't believe the hype then you won't buy the product, as simple as that. And perhaps in that case you're the kind of guy or gal who would never buy something before it's been tested and reviewed by others anyway. Some people will buy it because they believe marketing, some will buy it because it's new technology and others might buy it for the looks, it's their money and their choice at the end of the day, and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Adamski
Likes Bikes and Dirt
I think it's fair to say that there is no reason for someone to start coating stanctions with expensive materials without there being a discernible difference in performance.
For the everyday rider the difference wouldn't be noticeable but for the likes of Atherton and Gwin doing a huge number of back to back timed runs the difference could be measured.
Reality is though....it ain't gonna help Atherton get onto the top step of the podium!
For the everyday rider the difference wouldn't be noticeable but for the likes of Atherton and Gwin doing a huge number of back to back timed runs the difference could be measured.
Reality is though....it ain't gonna help Atherton get onto the top step of the podium!
bring it on
from memory kawasaki has been using kashima coated kayaba forks on production KXF motos for at least a cpl years. i havent heard those guys complaining about the coating, the forks seem to work really well.
makes sense only the high end forksl receive it first ie RLC to test the market place, needless to say the quick guys will be wrapped with the improvement, i think my wrists are crying out for these babies!
from memory kawasaki has been using kashima coated kayaba forks on production KXF motos for at least a cpl years. i havent heard those guys complaining about the coating, the forks seem to work really well.
makes sense only the high end forksl receive it first ie RLC to test the market place, needless to say the quick guys will be wrapped with the improvement, i think my wrists are crying out for these babies!
Dante666
Likes Dirt
very little will with the courses for this years world cup....
k3n!f
leaking out the other end
The measurable difference between regular ano'd and these would be so minimal as to be unquantifiable. Buy into the marketing if you like, just don't pay more for it.
Cheers.
It's refreshing to see some healthy skepticism regarding marketing claims. Unfortunately manufacturers claims like "5% stiffer" generally result in mass hysteria as "ZOMG that means mine are teh flexzoar". Additionally, I would be vary wary listening to sponsored riders talking about the benefits of new products their sponsor makes.
In all honesty, without a randomized controlled double blinded trial showing a real world difference these claims are hollow marketing hype.
PS-Not a fan of the new black decals on the 2011 models, though the shiny gold bits look cool....
Ill keep this simple - While some scepticism is healthy, there are a lot of posts on here that just seem like bagging the product, just because of it's claims.
1 - No it isn't TiNitride
2 - yes its very durable - One set of forks are over 9 months old, and all are as fresh as the day I got them.
3 - It was the Nickel plated chrome Stanchions we tried in previous years that weren't durable
4 - While the difference isnt significant, it can most definately be noticed on small high frequency bumps, and gets more noticable the faster you are going.
5 - It will smooth out your ride, save your arms and hands, and this can only make you go faster.
6 - More noticeable to me on the 831 (or any single crown) than the 40's, where there are less big hits,and more high frequency bumps.
7 - FOX wouldn't sell it, or produce it, if it was shit, or not durable, or not better than stock
The End
1 - No it isn't TiNitride
2 - yes its very durable - One set of forks are over 9 months old, and all are as fresh as the day I got them.
3 - It was the Nickel plated chrome Stanchions we tried in previous years that weren't durable
4 - While the difference isnt significant, it can most definately be noticed on small high frequency bumps, and gets more noticable the faster you are going.
5 - It will smooth out your ride, save your arms and hands, and this can only make you go faster.
6 - More noticeable to me on the 831 (or any single crown) than the 40's, where there are less big hits,and more high frequency bumps.
7 - FOX wouldn't sell it, or produce it, if it was shit, or not durable, or not better than stock
The End
Last edited:
Fat_Ride
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Thanks Jared.
As mentioned, a lot of expected forum banter on a new product feature to further increase the 'race ready' quality of the FOX forks. With each FOX product, the one you pull out of the box is identical to the ones that Jared, Gee, Rachel, Justin, Geoff, Cam, etc, etc, race/ride on each meet! The different features they MAY have, as you can see here with the Kashima coating, is purely testing so they can be sure it works before taking it to market. Also see the 831 release late last year and as you will see more of when the 2011 line is released in the coming months.
As far as the Kashima coating goes, rather than speculate on it's performance, below is information, NOT from FOX, but from Miyaki Company who conducts research and development, specializing in surface processing technologies, more info at www.kashima-coat.com .
Lubricating ability
Molybdenum disulfide permeates all the micropores of the
anodized aluminum due to electrolytic deposition, greatly
increasing the friction coefficient of the hard anodic oxide
film. The lubricating ability of Kashima Coat allows it to be
used in sliding parts without oiling.
Corrosion resistance
A disadvantage of aluminum is that it corrodes easily.
However, a corrosion resistance of 4 - 5 times that of
conventional chrome plating was achieved using Miyaki’s
anodized aluminum treatment. For example, in salt spray
testing (5%, 35°C), Material 5052 has a corrosion resistance
of 1,000 hours or more. This means that Kashima Coat can
also be used on yacht masts exposed to high salinity at sea.
High precision
The surface processing technology boasted by the Miyaki
Group creates a uniform film. A superior characteristic of
Kashima Coat is its ability to withstand grinding and lapping
processes, enabling you can to use it with peace of mind on
parts that require high precision.
High hardness / Abrasion resistance
Aluminum has the image of being soft, but aluminum treated
with Kashima Coat reaches a hardness of Hv 400. In
abrasion resistance tests, data shows that it performs
approximately 4 times better than hard anodized aluminum.
As such, it is expected to be used as a new functional
material in parts that demand the hardness of steel or
stainless steel.
Weight reduction
The specific gravity of aluminum is approximately one third that of iron. Kashima Coat answers the need for weight reduction demanded in this day and age.
As mentioned, a lot of expected forum banter on a new product feature to further increase the 'race ready' quality of the FOX forks. With each FOX product, the one you pull out of the box is identical to the ones that Jared, Gee, Rachel, Justin, Geoff, Cam, etc, etc, race/ride on each meet! The different features they MAY have, as you can see here with the Kashima coating, is purely testing so they can be sure it works before taking it to market. Also see the 831 release late last year and as you will see more of when the 2011 line is released in the coming months.
As far as the Kashima coating goes, rather than speculate on it's performance, below is information, NOT from FOX, but from Miyaki Company who conducts research and development, specializing in surface processing technologies, more info at www.kashima-coat.com .
Lubricating ability
Molybdenum disulfide permeates all the micropores of the
anodized aluminum due to electrolytic deposition, greatly
increasing the friction coefficient of the hard anodic oxide
film. The lubricating ability of Kashima Coat allows it to be
used in sliding parts without oiling.
Corrosion resistance
A disadvantage of aluminum is that it corrodes easily.
However, a corrosion resistance of 4 - 5 times that of
conventional chrome plating was achieved using Miyaki’s
anodized aluminum treatment. For example, in salt spray
testing (5%, 35°C), Material 5052 has a corrosion resistance
of 1,000 hours or more. This means that Kashima Coat can
also be used on yacht masts exposed to high salinity at sea.
High precision
The surface processing technology boasted by the Miyaki
Group creates a uniform film. A superior characteristic of
Kashima Coat is its ability to withstand grinding and lapping
processes, enabling you can to use it with peace of mind on
parts that require high precision.
High hardness / Abrasion resistance
Aluminum has the image of being soft, but aluminum treated
with Kashima Coat reaches a hardness of Hv 400. In
abrasion resistance tests, data shows that it performs
approximately 4 times better than hard anodized aluminum.
As such, it is expected to be used as a new functional
material in parts that demand the hardness of steel or
stainless steel.
Weight reduction
The specific gravity of aluminum is approximately one third that of iron. Kashima Coat answers the need for weight reduction demanded in this day and age.
k3n!f
leaking out the other end
I am assuming Fox did some internal testing prior to putting them on their fork range. I would be interested in seeing their data regarding durability and friction comparisons with the previous coating. Do you work for Fox Fat_Ride?
In addition, theoretical advantages often offer no real world benefit so a comparison between multiple timed runs with the old and new coatings would be interesting to see. For this to work properly the study would have to be "blinded" so the rider doesn't know which forks they are riding.
Probably more of an issue for the World Champions among us....
In addition, theoretical advantages often offer no real world benefit so a comparison between multiple timed runs with the old and new coatings would be interesting to see. For this to work properly the study would have to be "blinded" so the rider doesn't know which forks they are riding.
Probably more of an issue for the World Champions among us....
Reubs
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Really? so all the hubbub about Gee and Rachel's fancy-painted 40's was just pure marketing?? -because I think most people were under the impression that those 40's were different from mine and everyone elses.
Harder, better, faster, stronger.I'm actually a great believer in "every little bit helps" so I'll be keen to put them alongside say, a set of BOS RaRe's for an indepth carpark test- where all great suspension decisions are made!
Fat_Ride
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Really? so all the hubbub about Gee and Rachel's fancy-painted 40's was just pure marketing?? -because I think most people were under the impression that those 40's were different from mine and everyone elses.
Yep, identical (internally)! Although it came standard with a green spring, not blue, and an extra compression shim (can be added during any cartridge service but as it happened the majority of the WC forks sold had that shim removed becuase it was too firm for the standard rider).
Cosmetically, they did come with the engraved number ***/200 and the WC sticker kit.
Fat_Ride
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Not exactly 'internal' testing but yes, quite a few of the FOX world cup/champ riders have been using the Kashima coated stanchions throughout the 2009 season. Prior to this they used the nickel plated stanchions... not durable enough thus not making it to market.
Fat_Ride
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Why do you assume Kashima coating is going to make the 40's more expensive?
Reckless
Likes Bikes
“The Kashima coating made the forks so much more reactive to the small hits that I would normally feel on rough terrain. When the forks were skittering over tiny bumps they could soak up the impact much more quickly, without giving me so much feedback through the bars. That’s a huge advantage on long courses.”
That is a load of shite.
The measurable difference between regular ano'd and these would be so minimal as to be unquantifiable. Buy into the marketing if you like, just don't pay more for it.
Cheers.
Hi,
Not sure about using this on mountain bikes but i used to race dirt bikes in A-grade pro lites and had this coating done. it made a massive difference even a c grader would of been able to tell the difference. i recently got my 08 R1 suspension coated as well at "racetech suspension" and the feedback i get is incredable.more confidence when entering and exiting corners and less of a static feel while riding. i highly recommend it but like i was saying before, never used it on a mountain bike myself but just thought you'd like to know.
regards