jathanas
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Bugger August, did it this morning. 2 reps of 110!
Hardtail or Dually
- Thread starter ACNRS
- Start date
DanBraid
Likes Bikes
Bike Conversion
Hi.
Im looking for some ideas on how best to optimise my freeride bike for XC. i do a bit of both, but lately more XC type stuff, and its definately a struggle luggin the heavier bike up the hills. Eventually i will switch over to a proper XC bike, but untill the funds allow it, im stuck with what i got. The bike is a Jamis Parker. Any ideas? I was thinking maybe lose some teeth on the chain ring and extend the stem.
Hi.
Im looking for some ideas on how best to optimise my freeride bike for XC. i do a bit of both, but lately more XC type stuff, and its definately a struggle luggin the heavier bike up the hills. Eventually i will switch over to a proper XC bike, but untill the funds allow it, im stuck with what i got. The bike is a Jamis Parker. Any ideas? I was thinking maybe lose some teeth on the chain ring and extend the stem.
Danny B
Likes Dirt
Sorry I meant XCT3 - the higher spec'd one...
stinkytodamax
Likes Dirt
I've been back to backing my Dually (2009 Specialized Stumpjumper Comp 120mm) and my Hardtail (2010 Charge Duster Mid with 07 Revelations) at Mount Stromlo for the past two months to try and decide which bike to ride in the Scott 24.
Both bike perform admirably and I cant split the difference only to think that the squish in the dually might give me a better margin for error during the night where rocks and other nastys might appear.
I love the way the hard tail climbs the mountain there is no two ways about it they are superior for racing around on but you need to work hard for it. I've found I can do the same lap times on the Stumpy probably namely due to its lighter weight and superior grip and decending ability, perhaps I just need to train a bit harder and get used to the Stumpys inefficiencies becuase over 6-8 laps of stromlo my backside will be thankful for it.
So I guess for fun with mates the dually and for crits and races the hardtail all the way.
Both bike perform admirably and I cant split the difference only to think that the squish in the dually might give me a better margin for error during the night where rocks and other nastys might appear.
I love the way the hard tail climbs the mountain there is no two ways about it they are superior for racing around on but you need to work hard for it. I've found I can do the same lap times on the Stumpy probably namely due to its lighter weight and superior grip and decending ability, perhaps I just need to train a bit harder and get used to the Stumpys inefficiencies becuase over 6-8 laps of stromlo my backside will be thankful for it.
So I guess for fun with mates the dually and for crits and races the hardtail all the way.
davemchenry
Likes Bikes
Steel Hardtail
I have worked in bike shops my whole life and I have owned and demo'd a lot of bikes. Duallies are amazing bikes, especially for your average rider. Most hardtails are so stiff they are a rough ride, but a steel hardtail, and most people haven't ridden one because they are too focused on weight rides like a dream. they are soft and flex and are a dream to ride. I ride a Chromag and probably will always ride a Chromag, they are an absolute pleasure to ride.
I have worked in bike shops my whole life and I have owned and demo'd a lot of bikes. Duallies are amazing bikes, especially for your average rider. Most hardtails are so stiff they are a rough ride, but a steel hardtail, and most people haven't ridden one because they are too focused on weight rides like a dream. they are soft and flex and are a dream to ride. I ride a Chromag and probably will always ride a Chromag, they are an absolute pleasure to ride.
i did the six hour in castlemaine on a ht carbon fibre, half expecting to pull out with a sore back, hands feet, arse etc. to my surprise i finished and reasonably well, without too much discomfort. but first and second solo were both on dual suspension bikes.
the following thursday, doing the fgp dirt crits, riding my anthem i pulled out after about half an hour with excruciating back pain. the anthem is gonna go. i think a lot of issues with back pain etc are bike fit. my ht is a little bit shorter in length, and i have the seat a fraction lower - i think for me that is the difference. if i wasn't trying to do as well as i can in races, i wouldn't have bought a hard tail, and i'm so glad i did.
the following thursday, doing the fgp dirt crits, riding my anthem i pulled out after about half an hour with excruciating back pain. the anthem is gonna go. i think a lot of issues with back pain etc are bike fit. my ht is a little bit shorter in length, and i have the seat a fraction lower - i think for me that is the difference. if i wasn't trying to do as well as i can in races, i wouldn't have bought a hard tail, and i'm so glad i did.
I ride titanium. All the above applies. Best move I ever made from a short travel dually to titanium HT.
Ive currently got a HT but am thinking about trading in for a Dually.. Though never ridden a dually before..
Can someone answer me this..
A track I like doing has a section of rough, lots of tennis size ball rocks all over it.. I'd like to attack it fast but find I get bounced around too much and have to take it pretty slow.
Would a dually speed me up on terrain like this?
Thanks
Can someone answer me this..
A track I like doing has a section of rough, lots of tennis size ball rocks all over it.. I'd like to attack it fast but find I get bounced around too much and have to take it pretty slow.
Would a dually speed me up on terrain like this?
Thanks
Nerf Herder
Wheel size expert
Theoretically yes ... but I'm going to say no ... obviously without knowing you its a bit pie in the sky.
Why ... if your riding through the terrain tentatively on your HT ... I reckon you'll by riding it tentatively with your dually. The thing with loose rock is that your bike will be moving around ... not just up and down, but side ways and in opposite directions front and back. Suspension will reduce some of the rougher smashing ... but the lateral movement will still be the same. So I reckon it won't make you faster.
However, if you were attacking it in the first place ... then the dually will make it easier ... and add more control ... which means less fatigue which finally means faster further down the track.
Nerf Logic ... its painful sometimes.
irate:I've always been a dually guy ... however, have been gravitating towards HTs recently. Have been riding an XTC on tracks that I would normally ride pretty hard on ... and although I'm more selective on lines, I find I'm having more fun. Hoping to get a chromo soon as I've never had one before (I think) so want to see what all the "steel is real" fuss is about.
n+1 ... no need to limit yourself, just chose which ever takes your fancy at the moment.
Slowman
Likes Dirt
I remember when I first rode a dual suspension bike. It was like someone gave me wings I became a better rider the rear suspension helps keep the rear wheel on the ground instead of skipping about. It fills the skills/finesse gap. Though loose baby head rocks are still tricky.
Patrick_Nomad
Squid
I have both a hardtail and dually. The purpose of the hardtail was doing XC rides quicker and potentially doing races + use for commuting to work. I've tried on multiple occasions the hardtail on XC trails and unless it's a basic flat, boring fire trail, I way prefer my dually despite being much heavier, even when going up. I feel you loose so much traction because the back wheel bounces around on rocks etc. Clearly going down it's even worse. Even on a track like Manly Dam where there aren't big drops, I'm pretty sure I'm faster on my dually and certainly have more fun. As many have said, depends what you're looking for, but my hardtail is down to being a commuter bike and back-up when the dually needs some fixing...
kv1973
Likes Dirt
I'll add my 2 cents on this question and topic. I think in a technical descent a dually will be faster. If not, then what is the purpose of having a dually. I ride both, and prefer the dually in the rough stuff. The bump absorption of the dually allows for greater control of the bike and allows you to keep pedalling through. Whereas you need to be more cautious in a ht. Having said that I think a ht does make you a technically better rider because you need to be more alert and pick your lines carefully.
I generally run my HT with larger tyres and lower pressure so that it gives that little bit of extra cushioning.
Overall its it depends on the type of riding one does. But I think the dually is more versatile than a ht especially now given the weight differential between the two are neglible and you have lockouts on rear shocks etc.
stinkytodamax
Likes Dirt
I've found an amazing middle ground my new Scott Carbon Hardtail 29er just seems to fit the bill of hardtail efficiency and weight and the big wheels provide that ability to absob rocks and ledges without fuss. I'm now a convert. It has made me a lot faster and taken 5 minutes off my usual loop becuase its just so fast, efficient and light. I've never had a race bike before and I've got to say rear suspension was slowing me down.
yiannos18
Likes Dirt
All in the technique!
I remember reading this somewhere earlier on in this sticky but to reiterate: it is all in the way you ride! Riding sitting on the seat through rocky sections (ie. ploughing) is just silly.. up off the seat, pedals level, legs slightly bent, arms slight bent, voila, human suspension system.
At the present moment, I'll admit I'm suffering on rides longer than 2 hours on my HT but that's because I'm currently rather unfit but when I was able to ride alot, I'd be able to ride 4 hours and get home feeling like I could go out and do it all again (albeit making sure I eat).
However, I see where people are coming from and it is definitely those annoying little high frequency bumps that are fatiguing which make you think "should I get up off the seat and stop pedalling or shouldn't I and just power on?"
Then again you could modify parts (thudbuster anyone?), get a frame that flexes better, etc etc.
But really, I see the HT as the all purpose bike and I'm sure lots of others do as well... commute? easy. XC? no problem. DH? man up.
I remember reading this somewhere earlier on in this sticky but to reiterate: it is all in the way you ride! Riding sitting on the seat through rocky sections (ie. ploughing) is just silly.. up off the seat, pedals level, legs slightly bent, arms slight bent, voila, human suspension system.
At the present moment, I'll admit I'm suffering on rides longer than 2 hours on my HT but that's because I'm currently rather unfit but when I was able to ride alot, I'd be able to ride 4 hours and get home feeling like I could go out and do it all again (albeit making sure I eat).
However, I see where people are coming from and it is definitely those annoying little high frequency bumps that are fatiguing which make you think "should I get up off the seat and stop pedalling or shouldn't I and just power on?"
Then again you could modify parts (thudbuster anyone?), get a frame that flexes better, etc etc.
But really, I see the HT as the all purpose bike and I'm sure lots of others do as well... commute? easy. XC? no problem. DH? man up.
duelly
I'd go the Duelly. Hard tails are great and all, but I prefer the duelly, for more stability and comfort, like, for example if I'm on my Norco (HT) at fox creek, riding down a hill with fatass pine roots across it, I wouldn't have much control, and if I were to still be a newbie I would bounce off.
So I prefer the Duelly just for things like that
I'd go the Duelly. Hard tails are great and all, but I prefer the duelly, for more stability and comfort, like, for example if I'm on my Norco (HT) at fox creek, riding down a hill with fatass pine roots across it, I wouldn't have much control, and if I were to still be a newbie I would bounce off.
So I prefer the Duelly just for things like that
Ken Burns Effect
Squid
I've had both and with decent suspension, you can make a dually as efficient a a hardtail, yet you can still do stupid stuff that you wouldn't try on a hardtail.
I've never understood why people say "you should learn on a hardtail" a dually is much more forgiving.... IMHO
I've never understood why people say "you should learn on a hardtail" a dually is much more forgiving.... IMHO
I have a Cube 26" HT, however I just bought myself a 2012 Trek Fuel EX 9. The Trek is a fun bike with 120mm of DRCV travel front and rear, I mainly bought it with the idea of doing longer endurance racing without suffering too much with being bounced around all day on my 26" HT. I'm yet to do any events on the Trek and I'm quite interested to see how it goes. I did the Back Yamma Bigfoot 100km, I also managed 12 laps at the Scott 24 (solo) this year on the Cube - however I ended those races pretty knackered. Question is, how will I go when I do these events again on the dual suspension Trek?
So far, a couple of interesting things I noticed with the new bike.
So far, a couple of interesting things I noticed with the new bike.
- Not quite as efficient uphill as the HT, more of a sit and spin rather than a stand and crank affair. Although the Trek is a 5" travel bike, a 4" XC machine might be equally as efficient as the HT?
- Traction increase, both ascend and descend. I only assume the suspension is busy tracking through terrain keeping the wheels in contact with the ground.