Hardtail or Dually

shwinboy

Likes Dirt
I'm starting to Think Both: HT is great for skills development up to a point. There is a glass ceiling of skills development that jumping on a FS will help you smash through. That's getting comfortable wit speed and momentum. Do some time on the dualie then switch back to the HT and you'll be pushing it harder and more ageessivly than you were before.
 

jathanas

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Forrest: Hardtail
Mt Buller: Dually
Kurrajong: HT
Stockyards: Dually

If I had to pick just one I'd have a dually, but in an ideal world: both.

Riding a hardtail on challenging singletrack can be great fun! Not having the choice to cop-out and just bomb through everything on a dually would feel like a bit of a sentence for a while...
 

bob868

Cannon Fodder
Hi all :) New to mtb racing. Looking to do some Xc racing then leading onto some enduro stuff. Looking for suggestions on bikes I should get. Looking to spend around $1500 at this point. Cheers :)
 

lindz1817

Likes Dirt
I went from a dually back to a hardtail. Ideally I would like both with fairly burly builds that can handle most stuff. Had an opportunity to build up the hardtail first so went for it (harvested the dually for parts). Been on it for a couple of months and no regrets. Does make rougher sections more challenging, but it's a bit better fun for me and I can still ride everything that I could on the dually (which is not saying much).
 

nettabs

Squid
I've only ever ridden HT. I have found plenty of enjoyment out of it and enjoy the challenges of having to learn to be 'soft' over rough terrain. However, having never ridden a dually, I don't know what I'm missing out on. I often ride with a mate who has started riding a dually and on faster, rougher DH sections, I must admit that there is a hint of jealousy, but that quickly disappears about 10 pedals into a flat or uphill section when I realise he is struggling against 'bob'.

That said, I would like the option of having both, but the 'recreation fund manager' would have a conniption if I did and I'd never ever hear the end of it :argue:
 

Klips

Likes Dirt
I have both (650B 140mm and 29er HT) and use them from different ends of the spectrum. The FS is used to build confidence to hit the bigger, harder or more technical stuff on the hardtail which gives me valuable time in races. The hardtail reminds me to ride smoothly so I take better lines with more speed on the hardtail. If I had to only have one, I would go a 650B FS bike with about 110mm at each end as it's enough to soak up the hard stuff on long rides, it doesn't wallow on climbs (particularly with a climb mode) and you can still ride gnarly stuff without requiring the full commitment of a full race setup bike. No, it's not the best for racing and no, it's not the best for hitting massive stuff, but it's a satisfying mix of the two which won't overly impede you in either aspect.

EDIT: Nettabs - you need a better fund manager. Mine is asking me for permission on a second roadie, but this is after encouraging me to get the HT as it was an excellent deal.
 
I have both (650B 140mm and 29er HT) and use them from different ends of the spectrum. The FS is used to build confidence to hit the bigger, harder or more technical stuff on the hardtail which gives me valuable time in races. The hardtail reminds me to ride smoothly so I take better lines with more speed on the hardtail. If I had to only have one, I would go a 650B FS bike with about 110mm at each end as it's enough to soak up the hard stuff on long rides, it doesn't wallow on climbs (particularly with a climb mode) and you can still ride gnarly stuff without requiring the full commitment of a full race setup bike. No, it's not the best for racing and no, it's not the best for hitting massive stuff, but it's a satisfying mix of the two which won't overly impede you in either aspect.

EDIT: Nettabs - you need a better fund manager. Mine is asking me for permission on a second roadie, but this is after encouraging me to get the HT as it was an excellent deal.
How is bob even an issue anymore with remote lockouts ?
 

Klips

Likes Dirt
How is bob even an issue anymore with remote lockouts ?
I haven't found a shock which doesn't move under heavy load, even in climb mode. No, it's not pronounced; yes, it does have an effect. And I don't have a remote lockout on either bike, I've got enough cables with the dropper post on the trail bike that any more will make it look like a Scott, and it's not exactly hard to lean down and flick the tab on the hardtail.
 
According to the bloke in the lbs the specialised brain knows when you are riding up hill, apparently it's equipped with the same technology my missus expects me to have.

Yeah I know they all move, I'd wear that for the benefit of daullie for going down.


Just lay off the strava and I reckon twill all be good
 

22SBBGR

Squid
As said before, horses for courses. Depends where you ride, how often, and for how long.

Had a stiff alum HT for over 10 ten years, and rode it on everything, XC, downhill, the lot, as everyone did back in the day when dualies were too expensive.
Have now owned 4 different dualies in the past 7 years, 4 to 6" travel bikes. The performance now is amazing, you can do everything on a 5" travel bike.

If you are strong, skilled and riding for a short time, the HT is generally faster for many reasons, but soon beats you up. A good modern dualie is almost as fast, but doesn't beat you up.

My lower back loves me now, but hated me on the HT after 1-1.5hrs on the bike. You can use your legs to suspend your arse over bumps on the HT, but that soon tires your legs. Meeting able to sit down and pedal through smaller bumps on a good dualie saves your legs and back, and you can ride for longer.

Recently rode a mates carbon sick fast specie 29 HT after coming off my blur XC 27.5 bike. No comparison, the 29er HT felt F1 fast when pushing 100%, but when just riding along no real difference in speed. The HT felt harsher and more work to hold a line with, so was glad to get back on the blur.

If getting a HT then obviously get a 29er for speed, but if a dualie I honestly think it is either 27.5 or 29 depending upon your height and types of trails. If a lot of firetrails then 29, if more single track then either is fine.
 

rantanrave

Cannon Fodder
At 39 yrs old i would love to ride a hardtail for most rides but I need the bit of comfort that you get from a dual sus. I remember riding a hard tail when most of my friends were on dual sus and after a couple of hours feeling envious when they were taking a break on the flat sections and i was still feeling a bit shaken up.
 
HT and Dual and both awesome because mountain biking is awesome. I have a 160mm IBIS mojo dually and a 100mm Trek HT. The are totally different rides but equally fun. Youve got a choice between fun and fun. Neither is faster they both offer different results deping on climbing, descening, loosepack, rocks etc
 

dumar

Cannon Fodder
After riding dualies almost exclusively for the last 5 years i never even considered owning a HT. But i recently had the opportunity to test ride a few different bikes and have enjoyed the two HT bikes i tried although they were two completely different bikes (one a trek 29+ and the other a "all mountain" HT). In fact if the funds allowed i would love to own either of those two bikes. I have a ride on the trek race hardtail lined up which will be interesting to compare it to my regular scalpel racer.
 
Where do hardtails with trail geometry and plus size tires fit into this debate?

Definitely hardtails with a bit more tracktion OR
Could be used as alternative to dual in certain situations OR
A third consideration.....
 

LPG

likes thicc birds
Where do hardtails with trail geometry and plus size tires fit into this debate?

Definitely hardtails with a bit more tracktion OR
Could be used as alternative to dual in certain situations OR
A third consideration.....
The plus bikes are a bit of all 3. They act like suspension over small bumps and trail irregularities. On my 29er HT I would have to brake more on descents when there was trail chatter. At speed I had difficulty preping myself for any obstacles on downhills as I was being shaken around too much to hold a decent line or position on the bike and consequently I would have to slow down. I bought bigger tyres and used lower but found that the 21mm inner width rims didn't support them enough at the pressures I wanted to run for comfort. On my new 29+ HT descending is much better. The big low pressure tyres take up the trail chatter and I can hit the bigger obstacles at speed without bouncing off the surface on the way up to them. Control and comfort on the rough surfaces is much improved.
Traction is much improved. The low pressure means you get more tyre on the ground and it will deform and grip around rocks and similar. You can brake later and harder with the extra grip. The tyres don't skip across the tops of rough surfaces like a narrower higher pressure tyre so you have more spots on the trail that you can effectively brake on.

So far it sounds similar to full suspension but when it comes to bigger obstacles it is still a hardtail. A 3" tyre only has 3" of travel if you treat it like suspension and you don't want to be bottoming it out as it is a hit to the rim. Tyres used as suspension can't be made to be as progressive as an actual suspension setup is. When hitting bigger obstacles you need to use your legs to absorb the hit just like you would on a hardtail. As mentioned above it is usually easier to set yourself up if the surface is rough but you need to work yourself harder instead of just letting the bike take the hit. It takes more effort/skill especially if there are a few obstacles in a row as your time between obstacles is taken sucking up the last drop or whatever it was. On a FS bike you simply shift your weight back and let the rear suspension take the brunt of the trail. On the plus HT you need to let your body do more suspension when the track gets rougher, or maybe as if someone had groomed the track just before you got there on your normal HT.

Of course you also feel more connected with the trail compared to a FS. Pumping and boosting off small lips gets better results as the suspension doesn't dampen the effect. The bike isn't quite as stable as a FS but that also makes it more playful. This is the best part for most plus riders as it makes for a more exciting ride. A FS is quickest in the rough by bulldozing through but with the extra traction and very short rear ends found on some plus bikes it gives you the opportunity to be more creative with your line choice which can be very fun. Kind of like riding a big BMX. I just wish I had the balls to really comitt to some of the more out there ideas I've had for some sections of trail.

To understand where I'm coming from I currently ride a Trek Stache 7 (29+ hardtail with trail geometry would be a pretty good description). I was riding a 29er hardtail before (Cell Awaba) and an old Trek fuel 5 (2005 model entry level dual suspension that had been passed between a couple people mostly unused prior to me trying it out to see if I wanted to get into MTB). I didn't use the old Fuel FS as a reference as it isn't really of the same standard of bike. It wasn't all that well suited to me either, particularly the front suspension designed for someone much lighter made for some scary brake dive. I spent many years riding BMX but never got particularly good as I wouldn't take any risks. I've also done a lot of bike touring on and offroad (or bikepacking if I feel like acting extra cool). The 29+ stache suits me as I'm hesitant to go FS due to the cost and the additional maintenance. I probably wouldn't spend enough on a FS bike to get a good bike that was reliable. Also I will be doing some bike touring/bikepacking on the Stache which seems more suitable than a FS. I'll be heading over to America to ride the Colorado trail in August. If you've been riding a decent full suspension bike for a while before getting a plus HT you may feel differently.
 

mellow

Banned
yep.

Do not read any further. Old mate said it.
Depends.
Start cheap enough good enough hard tail.
Figure it out for yourself.
Give bike companies as much money as you are comfortable with.
Find a bike mechanic you trust, not a shop name.
 
Top