Highland Fling - 2010

[Dreggsy]

Heh... it was $160 last year. So yes, the price has gone up by 12.5%. I think it has been pretty similar over the last few years though. It's $40 more than the Angry Doctor 100km race you entered.

*shrug* I guess you get to pick which races bring value to you

Cheers
Spoonie

I can ride on firetrail and road all I want for free, i guess there's no paddocks in my area to ride through.

 

[tjb]

It hasn't sold out yet ... this must be considered a failure! ;-)

 

[Jackstack]

It hasn't sold out yet ... this must be considered a failure! ;-)

Or too many holes already burnt in small wallets??

 

[cog_nition]

Or too many holes already burnt in small wallets??

And enduro options...maybe the supply is caught up to demand. Be interesting to see the next 12months and whether entry fees settle, or dare I say it ...drop.

 

[HamishS]

MTBA Cover doesn't cover you at all while racing in an non-MTBA sanctioned event.



Did the AROC insurance include personal injury? Or was it just the third party/public liability insurance?

Can someone give me a layman's terms update on how the insurance thing works? I actually spoke to my private medical fund before the Husky to check and they did say that I am covered for Ambulance cover etc.

What I didnt tell them is that I was competiting in a mtn bike race ... might have to give them a call to check.

What is WH offering different to what my personal insurance doesnt cover?

Confused ...

 

[tjb]

I was in such a frenzy to get an entry in I didn't even notice that extra insurance was covered. Surely the MTBA fee for a promoter is small enough we should be demanding that events like this get run under MTBA ?

I mean if you are a paid up member of MTBA surely the idea is we race under the cover through them we've already paid for ??

 

[Jackstack]

I've always been led to believe that you are covered under your MTBA insurance on any organised ride or training as well as racing MTBA affiliated events. Wouldn't a non MTBA event be deemed to be an organised ride?????
If this is not the case there is a lot of people riding around with an MTBA licence thinking their covered when their not?
Unless I read it wrong, when I cracked my neck a couple of years ago, I pulled out the policy document that came with my MTBA membership and I believe I was covered pending proof that it was an organised ride. I never claimed 'cos I didn't really need to so maybe I would of been in for a shock if I did?
Is that a can of worms I smell??????

 

[alchemist]

I've always been led to believe that you are covered under your MTBA insurance on any organised ride or training as well as racing MTBA affiliated events. Wouldn't a non MTBA event be deemed to be an organised ride?????

No. MTBA Insurance Coverage

"Cover does not extend when participating in non-MTBA sanctioned events or activities covered by a 3rd party insurance scheme of any description."

Is that a can of worms I smell??????

Not really, you really should read your policies

 

[alchemist]

What is WH offering different to what my personal insurance doesnt cover? ...

No idea, you need to carefully read both policies.

 

[Knopey]

"Cover does not extend when participating in non-MTBA sanctioned events or activities covered by a 3rd party insurance scheme of any description."

So that implies that if the private event organisers didn't bother with this insurace caper, we'd be fine? Since it would not be "covered by a 3rd party insurance scheme of any description" Simple answer seems to be to remove said scheme

 

[Jackstack]

No. MTBA Insurance Coverage



Not really, you really should read your policies

That's the thing, if you read my post, I did read my policy at the time, I obviously read it wrong or its changed. Thanks for the heads up

 

[Jackstack]

So that implies that if the private event organisers didn't bother with this insurace caper, we'd be fine? Since it would not be "covered by a 3rd party insurance scheme of any description" Simple answer seems to be to remove said scheme

No, it means your MTBA insurance aint worth a piece of shit unless its an MTBA sanctioned activity.

 

[alchemist]

The only change has been to open up to general riding, rather than MTBA Races & Club rides and documented training programmes. Events run my people & bodies other than MTBA or MTBA affiliated clubs or organisations has never been covered.

 

[Knopey]

No, it means your MTBA insurance aint worth a piece of shit unless its an MTBA sanctioned activity.

Ah yes... So is this the right way to think of it then:
Non-MTB event = no
3rd party insurance exists for what you're doing = no
Individual riding activity eg. training (not one of the above) = 50% cover, no income protection, no non-medicare cover
MTBA event = yes

Sorry back on topic, this should be fun

 

[Jackstack]

Ah yes... So is this the right way to think of it then:
Non-MTB event = no
3rd party insurance exists for what you're doing = no
Individual riding activity eg. training (not one of the above) = 50% cover, no income protection, no non-medicare cover
MTBA event = yes

Sorry back on topic, this should be fun

Ahh yes back on topic.....hang on gotta go see my insurance broker.

 

[Pizzaz]

So that implies that if the private event organisers didn't bother with this insurace caper, we'd be fine? Since it would not be "covered by a 3rd party insurance scheme of any description" Simple answer seems to be to remove said scheme

Prob is that the promoter needs 3rd party liability of some sort... a condition of that is that there is some sort of insurance for the competitors. If you have a health fund (with ambulance) then you've covered (pretty much) no matter what happens.

Where things get 'interesting' is if you have some sort of serious accident. Most health funds won't cover your hospital stay / rehab etc etc if you have injured yourself in competition so you could be out of pocket.

If you have an accident at a MTBA event, in effect your MTBA insurance covers you for personal injury / rehab and all that good stuff (within limits) for the event. Thats what you have a day license for.

Extreme example is Gordo's injuries at the World Solo Champs - travel insurance won't cover competition and he didn't have a local race license hence hospital bills etc were out of his own pocket (and cause 24hr enduro isn't a UCI sanctioned thing then you can't get an international extension on your aussie race license... although MTBA did sort something out for us last year - yay MTBA).

A lot of the bigger point to point (and it seems to be point to point races in particular) are not MTBA sanctioned events and MTBA won't cover you in a non-sanctioned event so even if you have a full racing license your cover stops when the race starts. From that point on you're at the mercy of whatever insurance the organiser has chosen to provide... OR as is happening with a few races now (Ottway Odyssey, Central Enduro and now fling).. the organiser makes the offer of insurance available and if you choose not to take it then you've elected to ride at your own risk.

So... lets say at the fling you hit 'that' waterbar and break your back etc... sure, you get to hospital but what happens after that depends on your health fund and the insurance cover you've elected to take out. If you have elected not to take out the events injury insurance (and assuming the organiser wasn't negligent etc) then it depends on your health fund what happens as for accident / hospital costs after that point... most have a specific exclusion on injuries caused in competitive events.

If you have elected to take out the optional insurance then you're covered to the extent that policy allows.

What annoys me (this is my rant) is that I pay membership to a club and MTBA precisely for this reason... I don't understand why promoters are going the private insurance route which disadvantages those of us who have licenses. I read an article in one of the mags at the start of this year where the promoter explained that this was cheaper for occasional racers.... on this I call bullsh*t... the optional insurance for that event was $20. MTBA day licenses are $15 (although all competitors have to have one). Sure, if you want to race at your own risk you can save the $15 but it costs everyone else $20.

Someone is making ca$h somewhere (and I suspect it isn't really the promoter...)

and yes... I paid the extra $20 for the insurance

 

[alchemist]

What annoys me (this is my rant) is that I pay membership to a club and MTBA precisely for this reason... I don't understand why promoters are going the private insurance route which disadvantages those of us who have licenses. I read an article in one of the mags at the start of this year where the promoter explained that this was cheaper for occasional racers.... on this I call bullsh*t... the optional insurance for that event was $20. MTBA day licenses are $15 (although all competitors have to have one). Sure, if you want to race at your own risk you can save the $15 but it costs everyone else $20.

Don't confuse the MTBA Day licenses with the additional insurance that Wild Horizons is offering. This extra insurance is more akin to what you would get as a MTBA Member.

Day licenses are more like a Third Party Insurance.

By far the majority (often more than 90%) or riders who ride at these "big" events are not MTBA Members. To run an MTBA sanctioned event these would cost a promoter between $7 to $15 and involve a little extra work. Promoters I've spoken too over the years have indicated that to provide themselves with the same level of coverage that the MTBA sanctioning would cover them would be between $2 and $5 a rider and then they're also free to use any set of rules etc as they choose rather than those set by MTBA via CA & the UCI...

So in short, by not going down the MTBA route organisers have reduced their cost for ~90% of the riders by 5 to 10%

 

[Pizzaz]

Don't confuse the MTBA Day licenses with the additional insurance that Wild Horizons is offering. This extra insurance is more akin to what you would get as a MTBA Member.

Day licenses are more like a Third Party Insurance.

By far the majority (often more than 90%) or riders who ride at these "big" events are not MTBA Members. To run an MTBA sanctioned event these would cost a promoter between $7 to $15 and involve a little extra work. Promoters I've spoken too over the years have indicated that to provide themselves with the same level of coverage that the MTBA sanctioning would cover them would be between $2 and $5 a rider and then they're also free to use any set of rules etc as they choose rather than those set by MTBA via CA & the UCI...

So in short, by not going down the MTBA route organisers have reduced their cost for ~90% of the riders by 5 to 10%

Hmmm, although my understanding is that a MTBA day license covers the riders under the MTBA insurance policy (there's nothing to contradict this on the MTBA site at all). I'm assuming that there are some impositions on the promoter by going down the MTBA route... on general principal I feel that MTBA are there as a rider base organisation and insurance companies are essentially about the cash.

The move towards private insurance removes one incentive for riders to come into contact with the body that (purports) to speak for and grow our sport.

 

[RichJS]

If it gets checked then yes, you will not be able to start.

Surely this depends entirely on the helmet? Plenty of models of helmet sold on CRC have gained Australian approvals. It's not like the big helmet manufacturers make Australian-specific models.

Fling rules state only that "Australian approved cycling helmet worn at all times" - not that your helmet has to have a sticker on it stating that approval.

Stickers come off - and I suspect that some may even be stickered with the approval marks of all territories (IE have the Australian approval noted, even when sold elsewhere.)

MTBA (yes, I realise it's not an affiliated event) accept a number of International standards for helmets.

 

[alchemist]

Hmmm, although my understanding is that a MTBA day license covers the riders under the MTBA insurance policy (there's nothing to contradict this on the MTBA site at all). .

See my link above

"It is important to stress to your members and other participants at your events, that the income protection and non-medicare cover is ONLY available to full MTBA members at sanctioned club activities. That is, these two additional covers are not available to day permit holders."