LIGHTS MEGATHREAD - all questions on riding lights asked and answered here!!!
- Thread starter Oracle
- Start date
Ty
Eats Squid
remember to check your currency when using the jaycar site.
www.jaycar.com
search: CAT. NO. ST3366
you'll find it's more like AUD$400
www.jaycar.com
search: CAT. NO. ST3366
you'll find it's more like AUD$400
Brightstar HID from Jaycar
It is a Brightstar HID... details here:
http://www.brightstar-hid.com/product_info_e.php?UID=802
The mounting isn't very clean (assuming it comes with all the goodies listed here), but (again) for $200... Personally I'd love to see it, as I might be able to mount it on my old Niteflux mounts through a bit of adjustment.
Interestingly the price is down from $400 in October of last year.
It is a Brightstar HID... details here:
http://www.brightstar-hid.com/product_info_e.php?UID=802
The mounting isn't very clean (assuming it comes with all the goodies listed here), but (again) for $200... Personally I'd love to see it, as I might be able to mount it on my old Niteflux mounts through a bit of adjustment.
Interestingly the price is down from $400 in October of last year.
what would people prefer to buy out of the AY-UPs Led or HID Technologies lights? im trying hard but cant decide on one of them... i like the look of both but the ayups look better built. i ride mostly xc / aggressive trail at night and want to be able to go just that little bit faster (currently use 1 5w & 1 15w Halogen)....
thoughts? any other light suggestions? ($450.00 budget).
thoughts? any other light suggestions? ($450.00 budget).
STS01
Likes Dirt
I've been doing a lot of researching about lights recently. I was initially looking at the trailtech HID http://trailtech.net/helmet_light_kits.html which would have been around $270 landed, however I got to thinking that, while they are certainly bright, the HIDs had a couple of negatives in my view:
1. At each price point you are looking at a single light, where I've been happier with a combo of bar and helmet light with my current (1st gen Luxeon) setup
2. The HID globe can fail / break and replacement is expensive (~$100ea)
3. They mostly use Li-Ion packs. I know they are light, hi energy density etc but the thought of it going nuclear while charging and burning my house down doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.
So I ended up deciding to build up a pair of dual Cree XR-E powered LEDs. Run at 1000mA the XR-E produces approx 180-200 lumen from each emitter.They'll be set up with one pair on a bar mount and the other pair helmet mounted. These will have Ledil square optics in a combo of spot & spread, produce about 400 lumen each pair (a single HID is generally 650 lumen) and run for about 3 hours on an 8AA NiMh pack. They are also absolutely tiny.
What's the relevance to this thread you ask?
Well, it seems there is a middle ground between off the shelf and DYI that might be a good solution for some people- The AY-UP lights use a Luxeon III emitter. This only puts out 65 lumens at 750mA but there is another LED, the Seoul P4 which is the same layout and uses the same optics but which puts out about double the light at 750mA. If you weren't afraid to open those pretty AY-UP housings and do a bit of soldering you could easily have a well finished, waterproof lightset with HID like output (ie 4x 140 lumen) across dual lights for an additional $20-30.
1. At each price point you are looking at a single light, where I've been happier with a combo of bar and helmet light with my current (1st gen Luxeon) setup
2. The HID globe can fail / break and replacement is expensive (~$100ea)
3. They mostly use Li-Ion packs. I know they are light, hi energy density etc but the thought of it going nuclear while charging and burning my house down doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.
So I ended up deciding to build up a pair of dual Cree XR-E powered LEDs. Run at 1000mA the XR-E produces approx 180-200 lumen from each emitter.They'll be set up with one pair on a bar mount and the other pair helmet mounted. These will have Ledil square optics in a combo of spot & spread, produce about 400 lumen each pair (a single HID is generally 650 lumen) and run for about 3 hours on an 8AA NiMh pack. They are also absolutely tiny.
What's the relevance to this thread you ask?
Well, it seems there is a middle ground between off the shelf and DYI that might be a good solution for some people- The AY-UP lights use a Luxeon III emitter. This only puts out 65 lumens at 750mA but there is another LED, the Seoul P4 which is the same layout and uses the same optics but which puts out about double the light at 750mA. If you weren't afraid to open those pretty AY-UP housings and do a bit of soldering you could easily have a well finished, waterproof lightset with HID like output (ie 4x 140 lumen) across dual lights for an additional $20-30.
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Hi Gille,
After talking to some guys who had my lights and also had access to the AY-UPS at a recent night race, they reckon the LED technology doesn't even come close to the depth of vision you get with any HID. So if you are looking at serious xc and aggressive riding you can not go past a HID be it a HIDTechnologies one or someone elses.
"As a standalone light, either bar mounted or on your head, there is no LED
light regardless of price that can compete with Halogen or HID systems." Quoted from Singletrack magazine Dec 2006.
I am aware of a MTB magazine doing tests as we forum who are testing HID and LEDS only and comparing them all to see who wins.
If any one wants to do a comparison, I live on the Central Coast NSW and would love to do a night time comparison with your setup. I take defeat humbly. I reckon I can get 20-50m of depth of vision with a 10w HID (track dependant) something I believe an LED can not do.
Daniel
HIDTechnologies
After talking to some guys who had my lights and also had access to the AY-UPS at a recent night race, they reckon the LED technology doesn't even come close to the depth of vision you get with any HID. So if you are looking at serious xc and aggressive riding you can not go past a HID be it a HIDTechnologies one or someone elses.
"As a standalone light, either bar mounted or on your head, there is no LED
light regardless of price that can compete with Halogen or HID systems." Quoted from Singletrack magazine Dec 2006.
I am aware of a MTB magazine doing tests as we forum who are testing HID and LEDS only and comparing them all to see who wins.
If any one wants to do a comparison, I live on the Central Coast NSW and would love to do a night time comparison with your setup. I take defeat humbly.
I reckon I can get 20-50m of depth of vision with a 10w HID (track dependant) something I believe an LED can not do.Daniel
HIDTechnologies
I've just taken receipt of HIDTech's 07 model of the Lumen8R, and it's bloody fantastic! The 07 model is now a top-notch and professional unit @ 1/2 the cost of other HIDs with similar performance.I've been doing a lot of researching about lights recently. I was initially looking at the trailtech HID http://trailtech.net/helmet_light_kits.html which would have been around $270 landed, however I got to thinking that, while they are certainly bright, the HIDs had a couple of negatives in my view:
1. At each price point you are looking at a single light, where I've been happier with a combo of bar and helmet light with my current (1st gen Luxeon) setup
2. The HID globe can fail / break and replacement is expensive (~$100ea)
3. They mostly use Li-Ion packs. I know they are light, hi energy density etc but the thought of it going nuclear while charging and burning my house down doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.
So I ended up deciding to build up a pair of dual Cree XR-E powered LEDs. Run at 1000mA the XR-E produces approx 180-200 lumen from each emitter.They'll be set up with one pair on a bar mount and the other pair helmet mounted. These will have Ledil square optics in a combo of spot & spread, produce about 400 lumen each pair (a single HID is generally 650 lumen) and run for about 3 hours on an 8AA NiMh pack. They are also absolutely tiny.
What's the relevance to this thread you ask?
Well, it seems there is a middle ground between off the shelf and DYI that might be a good solution for some people- The AY-UP lights use a Luxeon III emitter. This only puts out 65 lumens at 750mA but there is another LED, the Seoul P4 which is the same layout and uses the same optics but which puts out about double the light at 750mA. If you weren't afraid to open those pretty AY-UP housings and do a bit of soldering you could easily have a well finished, waterproof lightset with HID like output (ie 4x 140 lumen) across dual lights for an additional $20-30.
According to their website, it has all sorts of built in protection too, so I wouldn't worry about the latest Li-Po battery/charger:
1. over - charge
2. over - discharge
3. over - current
4. reverse polarity
5. short circuit
syconate
Likes Bikes
They need their eyes tested!!!
My ayups offer much better depth perception than my halogen by a long way.
Also I ride with guys that have sold their HIDS in favour of Ay Ups and other LEDs.
I find night trail rides a real buzz but having too much light out on the trails you might as well ride during the day.
Lupine arguably produce the best lights available and they certainly know how to charge for them.
The Lupine website is now claiming the the HID is Dead. Apparently their Wilma LED lights are now just as bright as their amazing Edison HID.
www.lupine.de/
The Lupine website is now claiming the the HID is Dead. Apparently their Wilma LED lights are now just as bright as their amazing Edison HID.
www.lupine.de/
STS01
Likes Dirt
I didn't expect it to be this blunt from the maker of a premium HID
:"Honestly spoken ...buy a Wilma. Most, if not all the feedback from customers we get says Wilma is the best choice. Its a very close match in terms of brightness but if you look at the other advantages of an LED. ..yes buying a HID light is a waste of money."
I'm not setting out to knock HID- I've been dreaming of getting HIDs ever since I started night riding but the more I learn, the more convincing the argument for LEDs is. While the commercially available ones mightnot be quite there yet they are the way of the future- cheap, durable, compact, easy to 'drive' and with light outputs that are getting very serious.
Just to put it in perspective, you could build a quad LED light using Seoul P4 or Cree XR-E LEDs that would produce over 800 lumens and cost about $200 (that's light, battery, charger but not counting labour). One of these would be 100mm wide and 25mmhigh- perfect as a helmet light. Back it up with a dual or triple on the bars and you'd have daylight!
If you want to see what can be done (and where I stole the light housing design
) search MTBR for Cree LED...
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Lumens are meanless without an idea of the beam profile. The narrower the beam the more lumens will be recorded, but the less useful the light is.
That said you've got be very interested and I'm going to have to check this stuff out.
STS01
Likes Dirt
Fair call.
Here's a comparison:
Lupine LED 830 lumens (4x Seoul P4 I think)
Lupine Edison HID 900 lumens
To me the HID looks like it's putting out a fair bit more light. Check out the tree trunks and also the ground at the edges of the frame and you'll see it's much better exposed by the HID. Yes LED lights have (many) advantages, but for raw light output I'm yet to see HIDs beaten. Maybe in the next couple of years
.If you look down the road to the trees where it curves, the HID is doing a better job again. Light penetration on long fireroad sections is very important, so if the HID is doing that better it's another reason to go for it.
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To me the HID looks like it's putting out a fair bit more light. Check out the tree trunks and also the ground at the edges of the frame and you'll see it's much better exposed by the HID. Yes LED lights have (many) advantages, but for raw light output I'm yet to see HIDs beaten. Maybe in the next couple of years
If you look down the road to the trees where it curves, the HID is doing a better job again. Light penetration on long fireroad sections is very important, so if the HID is doing that better it's another reason to go for it.
I agree, from the photos the HID looks to be putting out more usable light. Having said that, they are both pretty good.
I certainly like the idea of a high powered LED & took a look at the Lupine website. I found the Australian distributor...the mid-level LED sells for $1100 ! You can buy 2 Australian made HIDs for that price.
STS01
Likes Dirt
I agree the HID has a slight but noticeable advantage in these shots. But considering we are comparing an $1100+ HID with an LED that can be matched or easily bettered by a handy DIYer for about $200, I still think betting on LEDs for the future is pretty safe...To me the HID looks like it's putting out a fair bit more light. Check out the tree trunks and also the ground at the edges of the frame and you'll see it's much better exposed by the HID. Yes LED lights have (many) advantages, but for raw light output I'm yet to see HIDs beaten. Maybe in the next couple of years
If you look down the road to the trees where it curves, the HID is doing a better job again. Light penetration on long fireroad sections is very important, so if the HID is doing that better it's another reason to go for it.
I'd be interested to hear from someone that's put together a setup running more than 4 LEDs, ie a pair of dual or quad Crees etc, as then you would have enough emitters to dedicate a couple purely to long range throw.
STS01
Likes Dirt
http://www.lupine-lights.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1155
It's from Lupine's own forum, posted by the maker of Lupine HID and LED lights for the purpose of comparing the Edison HID to the Wilma LED. I don't know what the camera settings are but you could always post in the thread...
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arpit
Banned
Thanks. I don't care what the settings actually were, I just wanted them to be the same.
If I changed the settings on my camera between shots, I could make my AAA maglite look brighter than my 500 watt car headlights.
From the looks of things though, I like the 12 watter best!
Either it is aimed better, or it has a better beam pattern.
The human eye is good at seeing in low light conditions, and the only reason as far as I can see, for a super bright light for recreational riding is if the beam were in such a shape that it provided even illumination for a long distance down a track.
Beam shape is crucial for good lighting. That's why car headlights aren't just made up of lots of little 12 volt downlights.
I've found that if a light is too powerful, and does not have a good beam shape, it can light the area within 10 metres very brightly, and the rest of the trail comparatively dimly. The bright light causes your pupils to contract, meaning that the (minimal) lighting of the trail in the distance is rendered useless.
Thus, when I look for lights, I look for even lighting rather than bright lighting. As set up, the 12 w does this best, closely followerd by the 16w Edison.
If I changed the settings on my camera between shots, I could make my AAA maglite look brighter than my 500 watt car headlights.
From the looks of things though, I like the 12 watter best!
Either it is aimed better, or it has a better beam pattern.
The human eye is good at seeing in low light conditions, and the only reason as far as I can see, for a super bright light for recreational riding is if the beam were in such a shape that it provided even illumination for a long distance down a track.
Beam shape is crucial for good lighting. That's why car headlights aren't just made up of lots of little 12 volt downlights.
I've found that if a light is too powerful, and does not have a good beam shape, it can light the area within 10 metres very brightly, and the rest of the trail comparatively dimly. The bright light causes your pupils to contract, meaning that the (minimal) lighting of the trail in the distance is rendered useless.
Thus, when I look for lights, I look for even lighting rather than bright lighting. As set up, the 12 w does this best, closely followerd by the 16w Edison.
STS01
Likes Dirt
Everyone definitely has there own preferences as to what constitutes "good" lighting and I tend to agree with you that more diffuse lighting is preferable to light with high intensity concentrated into a smaller 'hot-spot" however I have to disagree with your physiological reasoning....
While the human eye can adapt well for vision in low light (scotopic vision), it makes a number of compromises to do it. Visual acuity, contrast sensitivity, colour perception and depth perception are all impaired under scotopic conditions. Since all these are useful for riding fast through the bush it is preferable to have enough light that the eye stays in 'photopic' mode (ie normal state, medium pupil size).
It's probably a bit beside the point because most bike lights will be well above the threshold that would maintain any dark adaptation (although my 'Mk1' luxeons might be close as they are a very diffuse beam, and I'm aware that my vision isn't as good with them).
To maintain dark adaptation you need something like these:
Funny you should mention that...
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