Lucas Heights/Menai Trail building

[Cypher]

I looked for a trail building thread for Lucas Heights/Menai, but could not find one. I realise that riding in this area is of dubious legality, but what is the go with fixing trails?

I was riding out there on the weekend. Many of the trails have become severly eroded during the recent heavy rainfalls. The sediment is now doing a good job of clogging up the stream. I think some of the trails should be retired.

If I were to do some trail remediation, would there be any issues? (besides it being an epic job).

There is a lot of good quality bush there and it is sad to see the trails in such bad condition impacting on that quality.

Further to this, can some one refer me to a good manual on fixing up severely eroded tracks - that I can download from the internet? There are a few trail construction manuals but not ones on how to fix up big problems.

 

[taibo]

I'm happy to lend a hand

What area are you planning to work on?

 

[Cypher]

There are a couple of areas that are pretty bad. I can't really explain where though! Do these trails have names? There are a few of them. I'm thinking the reactor trail and the main area (where those new elevated wood jumps are)

I am going to do a trail assessment next week on Saturday (as part of my advocacy project https://sites.google.com/site/mtbcensus/) to help with the planning, then get the materials required etc and fix it up. I'm thinking I could start this Sunday.

 

[Drdave]

Check out the following for some good articles:

http://www.bikefernie.ca/trails/building (not all links will work but most of the good ones do).

http://www.americantrails.org/resources/trailbuilding/index.html (hiking oriented but mostly still relevant)

I think the critical thing to attend to in menai, is to discourage the motorbikers from riding on the single trails -- a couple of big heavy logs across the trail will usually do the trick...

 

[taibo]

This Saturday is Loftus trail maintainence day(3rd saturday of every month). Ill be at that from 9-12pm, let me know what time you'll be out there and ill come out afterwards

 

[Cypher]

I think the critical thing to attend to in menai, is to discourage the motorbikers from riding on the single trails -- a couple of big heavy logs across the trail will usually do the trick...

You know, I've been thinking about that. Trail bikes are annoying, destructive and the people who ride them don't seem to do much trail building in the area (although I can't be sure, maybe they do).

However not planning for trail bike riders to ride a trail is, I think, a bit futile. Like trying to stop the tide. I don't think MTB people have a greater legitimate claim to the area (I think I remember a rumour that trail bike riders used the area first).

MTB riding is just less destructive in terms of erosion.

Thanks for the links!

 

[Cypher]

This Saturday is Loftus trail maintainence day(3rd saturday of every month). Ill be at that from 9-12pm, let me know what time you'll be out there and ill come out afterwards

Oh. Cool. I'll be at the track maintenance day, trying to learn some stuff then. See you there

 

[outtacontrol]

Further to this, can some one refer me to a good manual on fixing up severely eroded tracks - that I can download from the internet? There are a few trail construction manuals but not ones on how to fix up big problems.

Good on you for feeling like having a go at fixing old trails. Unfortunately, large scale erosion damage is usually a pointer to a poorly designed trail. If this is the case, your efforts will be in vain, as the problem will just re occur.

Track down a copy of Trail Solutions - IMBA's Guide to Building Sweet Singletrack. It explains very simply the principles of sustainable trail design. Most erosion problems come from building on the fall line. Obviously DH trails rely on this, but there are some simple design features that can be utilised to help prevent erosion issues.

Motos are a different problem altogether. Regardless of who was there first, or who has the "right" to be there, Motos and MTB trails don't mix.
We had a similar problem on our trail network (that is legal). They weren't interested in the trails on the hill, as they were too tight. Our problem was on the flat, where they rode our trails and when they encountered something they didn't like, they just made a new line, which quickly turned into a huge mess!
We approached the moto riders and explained the situation and suggested they claim an area for themselves, and we would use an area for our trails.

This seems to be working. You still get the occasional ratbag, but as our network gets pretty busy, we encourage our members to stop them and try to educate them.

Good luck.

 

[Cronar]

Track down a copy of Trail Solutions - IMBA's Guide to Building Sweet Singletrack. It explains very simply the principles of sustainable trail design.

I've got a copy of this somewhere Cypher, I'll dig it up and bring it next time we're riding.

 

[Nerf Herder]

Let me know when you head out. I'm happy to chip in ... and was just thinking of trying to put a few more corners in.

Could I suggest the first thing is to source some mutha rocks nearby ... spill and fill the ruts, then add several more turns in to that section before the bog hole or alternatively, (as above spill and fill, but then leave it to the walkers and motos or as an uphill exit) cut a new longer winding sniggle section linking the other techy sniggle just up the hill a little and by pass all of that straight boring shizz.

Generally, I reckon every track needs more fast flowy corners ... too many eroded rocky straights in general IMO

I don't think you can or should keep the motos out, as they need a place to ride too ... but if we build tight winding (but flowy ) sniggle, they tend to stick to the more open tracks.

BTW,
I reckon a ride first to pin point the bits to fix, pick which loop to focus on first, work out who knows what their doing, and who are the grunts (or Cheap Asian Labour in my case).

Also: Thanks to who ever has fixed the bog hole and bridges (nice armouring)

 

[Deadman]

Keep fast flowing water off the track

If you can slow the water down that enters the track you can cut back the erosion big time. Try and work with the natural drainage of the area too. Direct water off the track at water bars (logs and rocks) built into the track. Fill the big holes and ruts with rocks that won't move and don't let fast running water into that part of the track. Armour braking zones if possible with big plate shaped rocks that won't budge when a rider brakes hard. Small rocks get ripped out easily and then become a nasty large ball bearing that could cause a tumble. Once you have you drainage worked out, it is a good idea to walk the track in the rain to see how it actually works - you'll learn a lot by doing this. Keep the drains clear and the track won't need too much upkeep at all.

Hope this helps.

Dave

 

[Nerf Herder]

A little bit of a warning peeps ...

A couple of new (or at least extended) water bars have been put in just out the front of Ansto on the fire trail, ... they are prolly a little too big and soft right now, but will hopefully compact down ... or get ripped up by the Motos. Take it easy if your coming from up higher the FT.

Also going down the main trail before the bog hole, there are a couple of minor water diversions, trying to force and water to the left side, and into some of the "new" drainage bits that were put in a little while ago.

There seems to be quite a bit of room to snake the trail down that corridor, however, given the banks are like 3 ft high in a lot of sections, I'm not sure how to fix it without machinery ... not as much rock as I thought there would be laying about, but I didn't look far off track and there seems to be a bit of ground fall to brush mat the more eroded bits to close it ??

Anyway, looks like the fairies are out which is noice.

 

[Nerf Herder]

Another WARNING ...

Sorry this is a bit late ... one of the "newer" ladder drops near the creek crossing was pulled down Thursday Morning ... as was the seesaw on the main trail. This was done by ANSTO staff due to a complaint by a bushwalker(s) (number unknown).

See the Menai weekend thread for more info.
http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?172325-Menai-Weekend-Rides/page24

may want to check all features on a reccy run, for the next few weeks, just in case they find more and take them away.

 

[trail doc]

Menai Main trail "KaKoda

I have been repairing trails since have nov 2010 & looking at better drainage on the main track.The storm water was divered by the RTA in april 2010 which lead to a massive influx of water onto that opening section opposite ANSTO. I have manage to divert it into the bush, hence the opening section being patched up & goin well.
Currently working on the littel downhill run just after !st creek crossing. I have dicovered that if you mix up 70/ 30 mix of clay & sand , mixed into a slurry (as mixing cement) works very well. Once slurry in place,pack it down with back of shovel, then place rocks into the surface.(like putting smaties onto cake icing)
This has been a solo effort to date & i have identified about 6 more locations between 1st creek crossing & the open area just before u go up into the Jurrassic fern area heading to the nth shore section
Would love to get a gang together to get things done. Menai is a great Track that needs love

 

[Nerf Herder]

Nice work trail doc, has made a big difference

I put in some minor spade work in there too, but your work was not just great but also well timed.

I'm keen to give a hand ... however, suggest we should think about talking to the powers that be

i) to show that we are putting effort into the area
ii) to get some feedback (rules if you may)

Not withstanding, I also understand the sleeping dogs approach.

re: Slurry ... adding that pea gravel is also good

 

[brenda and his bikes]

Hey guys I'd love to help fix up the trails. Only problem is I have been sick and still am going to be unwell for the next couple of months (bad way to start year 8) but once better I will do anything to help. But it's really great to see people looking after the trails. PS how were the trails like before the big rain came. ( Haven't been able to ride since last september)

thanks brendan

 

[trail doc]

Get well soon

Plenty of patchin up goin on. By the time winter hits, u will be back on ur bike & the track lookin smick

 

[trail doc]

Approaching ANSTO

I have Emailed on several occasions to ANSTO for guidance on land usage, but too no avail. I have had no response. I think that at this stage its a case of " what we do not condone, we cannot be liable by ANSTO.
From My point of view, we should continue to maintain the main trail, adding in good water diversion, and drainage. Very importantly not too damage the surrounds, only using rocks & fallen bracken as our materials.
Lets get a gang together. Keen too hear from other riders that want too muck in.

 

[Wiffle]

I'm in for some work in the near future. Either saturdays (mixed in with a ride) or tuesday during the day, or friday afternoon. Keep me posted, Doc!

 

[Jeff C]

Sounds good doc, very keen to help out. Depending on who else is keen, perhaps a scheduled weekend morning or afternoon once a month? Or we could invoke a rule that when it's too wet to ride, we try and get out for an hour or so on top of a shovel or wheelbarrow instead of the bike?