Lysterfield Cycles - a new way of funding trail work

Plankosaurus

Hydraulic Jack specialist
Fair enough, just asking the question. That's also my point though, everyone will go "past" Montagues. How many will make a detour to go in? It's not Field of dreams....
The questions all serve to make us think, they're all warranted

The building is right near the gate to get to the trails. Doesn't automatically send customers in but we'll be plenty visible and definitely no further out of the way than trailmix.

It kind of is though. They definitely won't come if we don't build it

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Flow-Rider

Wheel size expert
You should send some representatives to the trail head, ask the questions on the ground and or give people a survey to fill out. At a place like that I'd guess you're going to sell on how convenient it is for people. How many times have you turned up to the trails with 2 left gloves, one sock, flat tyres, no pedal spanners, no helmet ?
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
I'm getting the distinct impression that people put a lot of importance in brown caffenated liquids sold in small quantities? I dont drink coffee so i dont get it, but i think we definitely need to explore this. There might be an issue with competing with the landlords, i cant imagine that would go smoothly if they're intending to sell coffee to walk ins. IF what they're planning is more of a restaurant sit and dine experience though, there may not be a conflict here so we'd be mad not to at least ask.
For sure. Post ride almost every single time. Add to this all the walkers will go crazy for it as well (they are probably worse than MTBrs when it comes to coffee). The challenge is not so much that the landlord won't let you. They will probably let you go all in on a coffee venture - let you take the risk so to speak. The issue becomes what happens when you draw the traffic. They might suddenly decide to open for lunch and have a competing venture meanwhile upping your rent for the traffic that you bought in. That is the sort of environment retail is, having said that, they might be different, but my guess is if they had the money to build the complex, they probably want to maximise their return.

On a side note, if you take the whole profits back to trail idea out, then the PV site meets all the requirements. Just run a 'fundraising sausage sizzle and coffee cart every weekend - then play dumb that you didn't know it was against the lease lol. PV folks hate enterprises on their sites, but the current climate may shift that thinking - I hear they are bleeding chips like mad.
 

Plankosaurus

Hydraulic Jack specialist
You should send some representatives to the trail head, ask the questions on the ground and or give people a survey to fill out. At a place like that I'd guess you're going to sell on how convenient it is for people. How many times have you turned up to the trails with 2 left gloves, one sock, flat tyres, no pedal spanners, no helmet ?
Every time?

Not a bad idea, I'm feeling engagement is paramount here too

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Tubbsy

Flying a Scotsman
Staff member
Just run a 'fundraising sausage sizzle and coffee cart every weekend
This would be a good low-risk way to start the whole thing, if you can swing it. Have coffee and sausages (and beer if it isn't a licensing problem) out of a van by the trail head, with plenty of advertising about the bike shop in the main building. That way people will have their coffee and then feel inclined to check out the bike shop they might have passed by. This way you also don't need to risk it all on a big hospitality fit out in the shop.

I assume food truck/vans are something there is a used market for, so you can get in and out with less financial downside if it all doesn't work out as planned.

All that exposure at the trail head and the opportunity to explain what it's all about will help a lot.
 

Boom King

downloaded a pic of moorey's bruised arse
I'll just pop this here and let you figure out why they want a bike shop on premise when the only people driving past are park users.


Hint: It's not for the bike shop to sell coffee.
 

Boom King

downloaded a pic of moorey's bruised arse
Can I also mention that the biggest hurdle for the venture will be covering overheads full stop! Forget about the warm and fuzzy feels of not for profit and investing in the trails.

A very solid business plan is needed, it can't just be a mish mash of ideas that sound like they should work.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
I'll just pop this here and let you figure out why they want a bike shop on premise when the only people driving past are park users.
Yeah as I suspected. They are using the bike shop as bait to lure in the crowds. Once the crowds go there regularly, you can expect a bit more of a hostile/commercial attitude. I'd be going in with half rent for the first year minimum, else like you said food truck (or repurposed bbq trailer?
 

Boom King

downloaded a pic of moorey's bruised arse
Yeah as I suspected. They are using the bike shop as bait to lure in the crowds. Once the crowds go there regularly, you can expect a bit more of a hostile/commercial attitude. I'd be going in with half rent for the first year minimum, else like you said food truck (or repurposed bbq trailer?
I'd be going in with no rent until X revenue per week is reached. Then a percentage of the rent until Y revenue is reached etc.

Just remeber who needs who in this relationship. Montagues have a much greater investment they need a return on.
 

Plankosaurus

Hydraulic Jack specialist
To the best of my knowledge, montagues have been great to deal with and very accommodating. I think the relationship is symbiotic, much less of a "who needs who" than we're tracking towards here.

I have no specifics of rent etc. I could ask, but I havn't seen the need to with the other things I've had on my plate.

Sorry if I come across defensive, they're all good questions, we're just delving into areas that I havn't had anything to do with yet.

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Calvin27

Eats Squid
To the best of my knowledge, montagues have been great to deal with and very accommodating. I think the relationship is symbiotic, much less of a "who needs who" than we're tracking towards here.
Definitely, you don't want to go in day one combinative, but nonetheless the situation is what it is.

An alternative exercise is to imagine what sort of other business would go into the tenancy if it wasn't Lysty. Would 90% chance be a cafe and they would want exclusive rights to coffee lol. Only other tenants might be small time craft shops but doubt they could make it worthwhile.
 

leitch

Feelin' a bit rrranty
The other thing you could propose to the landlord is that they bankroll the fit out. That way, if your thing doesn’t fly, they can secure another bike shop tenant with a readymade unit. This is pretty common for hospitality ventures in new developments. They’re already building a new building and fitting out apartments etc, not hard for them to add a small shop fit to the list. Sign a 5+5 lease with 6 months rent free and a basic shop fit. Anything to reduce your capex and give you some breathing room to get started.
 

MARKL

Eats Squid
My 2c, in no particular order:

  • Business structure
    • if you are going to set up as a not-for-profit you will need a whole bunch of legal docs drawn up, reporting, insurances etc make sure they are sorted before you begin
    • As a director of a not-for-profit you can still be sued
    • You cannot give an investor a return on investment as a not-for-profit
    • This is not a simple decision - I have worked in NFP, the business I currently run is for profit - horses for courses
  • Business model
    • When you slash a tyre/missing glove, lost <<insert part>> and your mates are waiting to ride you will be happy to pay full retail to get back on your bike asap - is this enough to generate a return though?
    • Bike rentals - good idea
    • Coffee/snacks/bike cafe sounds like a great idea - if done right can be complementary to Montague's business
  • MVP
    • What is your minimal viable product?
    • This is the app that you buy that is a cracker of an idea but the graphics are not real good when you first use it and it doesn't link to what ever.
      • 6- months later the graphics look pretty, it connects to everything and the functionality has gone through the roof - but the idea behind it is still the same...or
      • It disappears because whilst it was a good idea the business model didn't work and everyone got out before they burnt too much money.
    • Anyhow the premise remains the same work out your minimum viable product, do it well and start that way. Minimise the outlay and test what works, doesn't work and make decisions from there. As others have suggested, start with the trailer/van or similar
 

Plankosaurus

Hydraulic Jack specialist
I've put all the main points to the committee and i'm going to go to bed now, brains not geared up for this

I've also had the tiers updated to give donators better value, i've got some background work to do to fix the lower tiers i wanted changed, but the upper ones now have better value. (this was already in the works, we're not that quick :p)

the rest will have to wait till the others have read and responded to my TLDR, there's been some realyl good points raised and i'm hoping to see a few changes and additions.

Thanks again all, top work keeping it simple for a simple mind ;)
 

slowmick

Eats Squid
The marketing material has the feeling that they were hoping 20,000 users would chuck in $5 (one coffee) to get the cash to get started.
 

rextheute

Likes Dirt
Add a rapid battery charging station and you're set.
You may scoff .
But this is the market that is growing - rich dentists need to ride bikes too .
Serious point follows
battery exchange setup , day rentals of bikes , coffee / sausage hut .
These are the money maker - cream
Then branch out into your passion projects of service , coaching ride events etc
I feel insurance costs may shock you
( as someone who has had rental , retail , servicing and manufacturing interests - these are the ball breakers )

A coffee / sausage van may generate enough income to sustain the retail outlet - and a partnership with PV may lead to a more mobile business plan - agile is good , remember ‘ light , poppy , agile ‘ - could open a business venture at other sites - rotate thru new locations
Lysterfield , You Yangs, Wombat , Harcourt , Bright , etc

However , carry on , I’m keen to see where it takes you and the initial buy in - all good .
 
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