Lysterfield Cycles - a new way of funding trail work

Plankosaurus

Hydraulic Jack specialist
I've got a little bit more back from some of the committee. bear in mind that theres been some (misdirected i think) anger towards the idea on bookface, so this was mixed in with your mostly constructive feedback. i dont know why i'm surprised, i more or less exist on facebook to buy bike parts and antagonize people. and theres no bike parts to buy at the moment :p

* rewards tiers have been/are being changed to add more value for donators. I'm a lot happier with this, hopefully it makes a difference but its only in the bigger tiers so effect might be minimal.

* food/drink is a flat no. there's a clause in the contract that states we wont compete, fair enough too

* trailmix is a bit far fetched, not a no, but not really feasible. Montagues will put the space up for another bike operation if we cant get in, we just got first option on it due to being the local club. If there's another bike shop and a large cafe with better exposure and more capital behind them then we'll more than likely fail at the trailmix hut. and thats IF we could negotiate it with PV, and we'd then be PVs tenants. doesnt sound like a great position to be in all round.

* the constitution of the association states the goals of the shop, and i believe the business registration has us listed as not for profit. they're looking at how best to convey this without sounding overly defensive - i'm thinking extra info on the website so as not to clutter the crowdfunding/socials. same deal for the more detailed budget, but we may have to amend that anyway with a change of plan.

* we've got a few brands on board, but its all handshakes at this stage with nothing in writing. dont know that its wise to go shouting their names from the rooftops

* we're looking very seriously at changing the goal posts (i think its the only way really) to reflect a more achievable outcome. If more people are willing to donate to a smaller goal and we can get running on said smaller outlay, then we might be onto a winner still. we're looking into the potential for loans/assistance from elsewhere, but they're probably a stretch given the nature of the venture and the time we have left. worth a shot, but dont hold much hope for that.

i know there was more stuff covered by you guys, thats just whats been talked about. its all good stuff and honestly might mean the difference between a shaky start but ultimately successful vs a complete non event.
 

link1896

Wheel size expert
Well done Plankosaurus.


Possibly the shop is only open weekends, with volunteers, who’ve been vetted to confirm they know lefty loosey right tighty running the workshop?
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
* food/drink is a flat no. there's a clause in the contract that states we wont compete, fair enough too
I figured that would be the case. Having another bike operation start up shop there might actually be a blessing in disguise. If they can bring in a big brand, you might not need to make you own money after all, they will actively want to pump the park up as much as possible.

An exercise that might challenge the committee is to go through some management consulting BS and figure out a program logic. To me that is the biggest gap in the whole thing. To be fair, it's a pretty big leap to start a commercial enterprise in a struggling industry (well the LBS were until covid anyway) with a lot of commercial restrictions and less than ideal conditions.

If the aim of the exercise is to make money, then there are probably a lot of other ways to do it. Start small and build up. When it's crowd source money, it's easy to gamble away. Imagine if LDTR through years of promotion and BBQs and fundraisers and merch sales managed to rack up $100k. Would the committee decide to put into a commercial venture like this? My guess would be no. Would individuals mortgage their house to fund this? Probably not, the unfortunate reality is that this venture is risky and just accepting crowd sourcing money does not mean you can/should risk it on something like this.

Personally I rekon the club could do a lot more promo work (if PV allowed it). Maybe have a van outside the park selling cokes or even a donation box (surely PV would allow that?). Maybe have a sticker drive - someone selling them as you leave the carpark high from the ride. I dunno, I feel like going to a shop is a massive step up.

Last note is do you actually have someone in mind to run the shop who has experience?

Possibly the shop is only open weekends, with volunteers, who’ve been vetted to confirm they know lefty loosey right tighty running the workshop?
Are you trying to destroy threaded BB shells!??!?!
 

Minlak

would blow a manky old hobo for $20
There are so many easier ways to make money as a not for profit to filter into the trails - not trying to dissuade you from your goal / idea just I don’t think anyone is realising how little margin is in a shop - especially once you add all the relevant insurance etc you will need.
 

Plankosaurus

Hydraulic Jack specialist
i think the premise is solid. shops run to make money for the owners, we'd be doing the same but making money for the park.

I think to my days with the CFA. Most brigades have volunteers doing tin rattles and BBQs, this brings in money but its dribs and drabs and takes a lot of volunteer man hours. One brigade i was at for a couple of years had a commercial fire equipment maintenance business, with paid maintenance technicians instead of volunteers so they could be out there every day making money. This brigade did not have to fund raise in any other way and had a steady stream of income so that the volunteers could concentrate on doing the things that they were actually there for.

We're talking a similar premise, i cant see why it wouldn't work should we be able to get it off the ground. Agree that getting it off the ground is going to be harder than we initially thought, but i'm pretty confident that it'll work and benefit the MTB community if we get a solid start.
 

link1896

Wheel size expert
I figured that would be the case. Having another bike operation start up shop there might actually be a blessing in disguise. If they can bring in a big brand, you might not need to make you own money after all, they will actively want to pump the park up as much as possible.

An exercise that might challenge the committee is to go through some management consulting BS and figure out a program logic. To me that is the biggest gap in the whole thing. To be fair, it's a pretty big leap to start a commercial enterprise in a struggling industry (well the LBS were until covid anyway) with a lot of commercial restrictions and less than ideal conditions.

If the aim of the exercise is to make money, then there are probably a lot of other ways to do it. Start small and build up. When it's crowd source money, it's easy to gamble away. Imagine if LDTR through years of promotion and BBQs and fundraisers and merch sales managed to rack up $100k. Would the committee decide to put into a commercial venture like this? My guess would be no. Would individuals mortgage their house to fund this? Probably not, the unfortunate reality is that this venture is risky and just accepting crowd sourcing money does not mean you can/should risk it on something like this.

Personally I rekon the club could do a lot more promo work (if PV allowed it). Maybe have a van outside the park selling cokes or even a donation box (surely PV would allow that?). Maybe have a sticker drive - someone selling them as you leave the carpark high from the ride. I dunno, I feel like going to a shop is a massive step up.

Last note is do you actually have someone in mind to run the shop who has experience?



Are you trying to destroy threaded BB shells!??!?!
Oh I forgot the certified to use a big hammer course.......
 

leitch

Feelin' a bit rrranty
We're talking a similar premise, i cant see why it wouldn't work should we be able to get it off the ground. Agree that getting it off the ground is going to be harder than we initially thought, but i'm pretty confident that it'll work and benefit the MTB community if we get a solid start.
I know I said this earlier but getting the community around it will make it better and help it last. The concept of “bike shop that doesn’t sell bikes” is really hard to communicate.

Set it up like one of the community workshops/maker spaces with extra bench space/work stands and get people to become members (of LDTR which gets you access to the shop, or of the shop directly) to come and wrench their own bikes with/without guidance as desired. Run bike mechanics lessons for kids and newbies. Tee up a bike fitter to come in every Tuesday/Thursday night and do a fit appointment or two.

Etc etc. A bike shop that doesn’t sell bikes will not succeed. A community hub that brings people together and gets them psyched on bikes and converts them into club members who will show up for trail working bees will be more valuable than a shop that donates 100% of its meagre profits and is empty most of the time.
 

Plankosaurus

Hydraulic Jack specialist
I know I said this earlier but getting the community around it will make it better and help it last. The concept of “bike shop that doesn’t sell bikes” is really hard to communicate.

Set it up like one of the community workshops/maker spaces with extra bench space/work stands and get people to become members (of LDTR which gets you access to the shop, or of the shop directly) to come and wrench their own bikes with/without guidance as desired. Run bike mechanics lessons for kids and newbies. Tee up a bike fitter to come in every Tuesday/Thursday night and do a fit appointment or two.

Etc etc. A bike shop that doesn’t sell bikes will not succeed. A community hub that brings people together and gets them psyched on bikes and converts them into club members who will show up for trail working bees will be more valuable than a shop that donates 100% of its meagre profits and is empty most of the time.
I do really like this idea. might be a bit tricky to run alongside rentals and make sure tools dont go walkabouts, but i generally agree very heartily with the concept. Will discuss with the others, you're right, its about community as much as fundraising and they dont have to be mutually exclusive...
 

The Duckmeister

Wheel size expert
I know I said this earlier but getting the community around it will make it better and help it last. The concept of “bike shop that doesn’t sell bikes” is really hard to communicate.

Set it up like one of the community workshops/maker spaces with extra bench space/work stands and get people to become members (of LDTR which gets you access to the shop, or of the shop directly) to come and wrench their own bikes with/without guidance as desired. Run bike mechanics lessons for kids and newbies. Tee up a bike fitter to come in every Tuesday/Thursday night and do a fit appointment or two.

Etc etc. A bike shop that doesn’t sell bikes will not succeed. A community hub that brings people together and gets them psyched on bikes and converts them into club members who will show up for trail working bees will be more valuable than a shop that donates 100% of its meagre profits and is empty most of the time.
Not without precedent though. Abbotsford Cycles under Richmond station is a bike shop that doesn't sell bikes, and has been around since forever. With a solid market focus, the model can work.
 

Lazmo

Old and hopeless
Good luck with your venture, but the no coffee is a major problem... almost a show stopper.

The thing that Lysty really needs though, is some additional trails. The main loop should have the ABC logo etched into it, with interconnecting links added so you could mix up your standard loop ride. A trail should also be added from either East/West, the dairy or from the highest point of Middle that makes its way to the start of Aneurysm so that becomes another loop, and the start of Aneurysm should be linked into the Comm games climb for another loop. The place is so busy that I understand the one way rule, but without some alternative loops happening to allow mixing it up, even though it is my local, it has lost it for me.
 

Plankosaurus

Hydraulic Jack specialist
Good luck with your venture, but the no coffee is a major problem... almost a show stopper.

The thing that Lysty really needs though, is some additional trails. The main loop should have the ABC logo etched into it, with interconnecting links added so you could mix up your standard loop ride. A trail should also be added from either East/West, the dairy or from the highest point of Middle that makes its way to the start of Aneurysm so that becomes another loop, and the start of Aneurysm should be linked into the Comm games climb for another loop. The place is so busy that I understand the one way rule, but without some alternative loops happening to allow mixing it up, even though it is my local, it has lost it for me.
You'll get your coffee, there's a cafe in the same building. Caffeinated brown liquid for everyone that needs it.


New trails is something that everyone wants. Except the land managers.

Ldtr has put forward plans and reports and plans and reports over and over and they're just rejected. There's more to it obviously, but the long and the short of it is that we've offered to make the trails and maintain them and do it all to their standards and the best we get is strung along with a glimmer of hope. Fighting for this costs money and time, the vols are dedicated but you only get so much dollars out of memberships and one big race a year.

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