Missing Malaysian flight

[John U]

Planes have got hoses carrying O2 running all throughout them -including the cockpit. If one of them got damaged by flames and started leaking, a small fire would very quickly become a big fire.

That's pretty much what killed the 3 astronauts on the first Apollo mission.

I was watching Person of Interest last night. They have fire extinguishers in the cockpit. Not sure if they have anything in them, though they are handy for knocking someone out.

 

[johnny]

The last thing you'd be doing is plugging in a code to the transponder or attempting to use a radio if you are surrounded by fire.

Yeah, but that's the point, the likelihood of becoming SURROUNDED by fire that rapidly is probably very low. None of us yet know what happened, I'm sticking with instant and catastrophic cockpit fire being very unlikely.

 

[pharmaboy]

A cockpit fire would have to be remarkably rapid and intense to preclude a single distress signal. I'm skeptical this will have been the cause.

There has been an example on the ground in a 777 of a fire that took hold in a minute or less. Ultimately though, the pilots last priority is distress signals - untill you are under control . Their responsibility is to the aircraft and people on board , not to the search and recover effort.

Edit, search Egypt air cockpit fire - it was very rapid indeed and involved oxygen

 

[frenchman]

Yeah, but that's the point, the likelihood of becoming SURROUNDED by fire that rapidly is probably very low. None of us yet know what happened, I'm sticking with instant and catastrophic cockpit fire being very unlikely.

But there is still a chance there could of been an uncontained fire. Even if it hasn't spread rapidly, if it has come from your comm stack you're not going to turn it back on and try and make a radio call. Making a radio call is the last thing on a checklist.

 

[ajay]

Yeah, but that's the point, the likelihood of becoming SURROUNDED by fire that rapidly is probably very low. None of us yet know what happened, I'm sticking with instant and catastrophic cockpit fire being very unlikely.

Considering how unlikely this whole ordeal is - not being able to locate any trace of a huge aircraft - these "very unlikely scenarios" are the causes that probably should be considered to be more likely...

 

[Big JD]

there are two extinguishers on the flight deck and 4 in the cabin. Oxygen has cutoff valves at many points in case of a fire. A fire would have set off an alarm (internal and external signal). They were 20-30 minutes out from take off and would have climbed to at least 30 000 feet- cruise was probably 38 000- all reports state the flight was normal until they lost signal 25 minutes out. A rapid decompression at that height would have given them around 45 seconds to descend to a safe altitude before liquids boil at - 55 degrees. The pilots would have put the plane into a dive or the plane would have done it automatically. You would loose consciousness in around 30 seconds but feel terrific just before you do. A minor leak would not have rendered the pilots unconscious as the pressure in the flight deck is lower than the cabin. Also crew have set times to contact the flight deck after take off- if they dont respond then they have the ability to access the flight deck and are trained to remove the bodies and contact air control.

There are just so many fail safes for mechanical failure that there is no way some message would not have been sent to the ground. Planes can stall and fall out of the sky due to a number of issues- majority human error - and most due to a lack of speed. If the cabin was taken over the pilots and crew would have had to have been taken out first. Any changes in flight path is picked up from the ground. The fact that they think it turned around is strange if it was a hijacking, explosion on board or mechanical (why wouldn't you contact air control if there was an issue).

If they can find a known terrorist individual via satelite and track them for a 6 month period in 2002 it staggers me how we can loose a plane in a high traffic area with so many radars and busy ports around.

It is all very strange and very sad.

 

[eastie]

The actions align with pilots who were either non compos mentis or under duress.
The lack of transparency with the public and evident friction between civil/defence on this is concerning.

 

[willsy01]

There has been an example on the ground in a 777 of a fire that took hold in a minute or less. Ultimately though, the pilots last priority is distress signals - untill you are under control . Their responsibility is to the aircraft and people on board , not to the search and recover effort.

Edit, search Egypt air cockpit fire - it was very rapid indeed and involved oxygen

It's in my post on the first page, number 15.

It was extraordinarily rapid and had the plane been in the air would've been catastrophic.

 

[brisneyland]

WTF?

Air force chief General Rodzali Daud was this morning quoted by Malaysian media as saying that radar had last detected the plane over the Strait of Malacca off western Malaysia.

That location would have indicated the flight had banked far to the west of its intended flight path over the South China Sea.

But Mr Rodzali says he "did not make any such statements," and that newspaper Berita Harian published "what is clearly an inaccurate and incorrect report".

From ABC News

 

[willsy01]

WTF?



From ABC News

All this needs now is some Benny Hill music.....

 

[Unlearn]

What could have inginted such a fire? Correct me if i'm wrong but the wiring looms are all a)protected with breakers b)wrapped in flame retardent insulating material.

I recall an Swiss Air aircraft where a fire in the cabin started due to a new in-flight entertainment system overload, coupled with flamable wire wrapping, both pilots and crew could smell burning before the fire got going. The crew did everything they thought was right, including shutting off the power supply to the cabin (unknown to them the in flight entertainment system by-passed the cabins breakers and continued to function), make necessary contact with the ground and even start a fuel dump. This fire was catastrophic and fast in nature, but there were signs minutes before it got real, and the crew was able to act accordingly for some time.

I fail to think in this day and age that a fire could take out the crew THAT fast that it would prevent them making contact, with the sophistcation and warning systems available to them.

I would think if there was an emergency one pilot would be working on said emergency while the other made emergency contact with the ground in the first instance?

 

[Art Vanderlay]

Did the plane even take off. Have they checked all the hangers at the airport?

 

[Big JD]

there was an article in the Sun this morning about the co pilot from the flight inviting hot tourists up to the deck for photos and they were smoking the whole time. Serious security breach but understandable if you are trying to score.

I dont believe you can even manually shut down all signals from the plane to the ground- ghost plane.

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

Did the plane even take off. Have they checked all the hangers at the airport?

Good point. A mate of mine did that once. He noticed his housemates car had been missing a few days whilst said housemate was overseas and reported it stolen. The cops came round and asked if he'd checked the garage.

He hadn't...

 

[johnny]

But there is still a chance there could of been an uncontained fire. Even if it hasn't spread rapidly, if it has come from your comm stack you're not going to turn it back on and try and make a radio call. Making a radio call is the last thing on a checklist.

Well, either way, neither of us know diddly poop at this point and I'll bet 1000 internet points that it wasn't cockpit BBQ.

Time may or may not tell.

 

[willsy01]

Seems Vietnam has had enough of Malaysia's shit and all but suspended their search until they get some proper answers from them.

 

[Pastavore]

Interesting


http://www.theage.com.au/world/miss...warnings-over-boeing-777s-20140312-hvhqz.html

 

[eastie]

non compos mentis scenarios: decompression/failure of flight deck oxygen. Pilots managed to follow SOP and ensure autopilot is engaged, check cabin pressure, assess damage and make a judgement on safe speed, alert pax, set lower altitude and set turn back coords before they blacked out / possible ghost flight. Unlikely they failed to pick up on slow decompression when their actions of turning show they may have been going through the SOP for decompression.

hijack scenarios: possible initial compliance(?), deviation from course, removal of all comms, possible that pilots disobeyed an instruction to aim at a target (major city/infrastructure) and instead ditched to prevent further harm / possible jihacker failure to regain control after auto pilot interruption / possible hijackers dispatched flight crew and were overcome by cabin pax/crew / possible autopilot interruption by non flight crew/pax after gaining control of flight deck / possible fighting in flight deck resulting in a ghost flight

Mumbling from the pilot could have been due to low oxygen, talking through an oxy mask, injury or duress. Pax not answering phones - could've been under duress, phones collected by hijackers. Interesting report that so many phones rang, indicating the pax knew the situation.

 

[C0na]

What about a microburst?

 

[Unlearn]

What about a microburst?

Not at cruising altitude, and the aircraft are equipped with doppler/weather radar.