Grover
Likes Bikes and Dirt
FYI 11 speed freehub body now availabe. $39 on cycling express
http://www.cyclingexpress.com/?lang=en&p=productDia&proId=565389&proName=
http://www.cyclingexpress.com/?lang=en&p=productDia&proId=565389&proName=
Modifying D2R Shadow Trainer for 11 speed and ANT+ speed sensor
- Thread starter Cave Dweller
- Start date
stevebaker
Cannon Fodder
Hi guys,
Re: Trainer Road - I got the power curve information from the manufacturer of the D2R Shadow, then gave that information to Trainer Road and they added it into the software.
They list 5 supported resistance levels - Resistance 0, 4, 8, 12, 16. These correspond roughly to the number of 'clicks' on the resistance lever on the D2R Shadow (i.e. Resistance 8 = 8 clicks, or about half way around the resistance lever). When you setup Trainer Road, you tell it which resistance setting your are using (so you can't change the resistance setting mid-workout).
Yes you'll need the ANT+ USB and magnet per Cave Dweller's post here.
The D2R Shadow + Trainer Road is a great value training combo - I'm very happy with it!
Cheers
Steve
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I just installed TR and saw the various resistance settings. My ANT+ arrived today, still waiting for the mega magnet.
I have thought about a slight variation of your set-up. Instead of buying another Garmin/Ant+ speed pickup to put on the trainer, I was hoping I might be able to 'magnetically bridge' the 10-15cm distance between the flywheel and where my regular speed/cadence sensor is on the rear stay. Hopefully just a bit of steel bar that spans the outside of the flywheel cover (mega magnet passing underneath) to the tip of the pickup.
I had a play around with this and I do not think it is going to work. I was suprised just how strong a magnetic field is required (e.g. proximity and strength of magnet). Lokks like I will buy another pickup.
I bought a second GSC-10 (but perhaps should have got something different, I'll come back to this later). I have managed to get it working OK with a strong magnet from an old Hard Disk Drive, which is simply stuck to the flywheel at the base of the cassette (no need to remove the flywheel cover). I did try stacking a few magnets, but the magnetic field was too strong and when in the granny gear, the magnetic force tried to pull the chain off! just a single magnet works fine to get speed.
I have two minor issues, otherwise I think this combo is awesome.
1) because I have two GSC-10 speed/cadence sensors, trainer road appears that it can only pick up one at a time, so I configured TR pick-up the flywheel speed and hence give me access to virtual power. I have my Edge 500 unit on, which picks up the other for cadence, so I can do cadence drills OK, although it would be nice to have speed (power) & cadence in TR. Perhaps I should have got a speed only pickup like the new magnetless garmin one, as i reckon TR would have been able to pickup the GSC-10 as cadence and the new one for speed.
2) The variable magnetic resistance of the D2R and the corresponding power curves means you must be diligent as to what "click" setting the trainer is on. I am currently using the '8 clicks' curve, although it can be a bit difficult to ensure you are at exactly 8 and not 7 or 9. I usually have to crank it hard to the softest setting and count clicks, repeat a few times so i am confident i got it in the right spot. I suppose it doesn't matter so much which one you have it in as long as you are consistent (and assuming you are only interested in your relative performance from one session to another and don't care for absolute accuracy. I did 2 FTP tests in the first 2 sessions and came back with dramatically different results, I am convinced I perhaps had the D2r on 9 clicks the first session and then 8 for the subsequent. I will be upset if it is the other way around i.e. was 8 in first test and 7 in subsequent, as i will have taken a hit of over 50W on my FTP ;-)
I have two minor issues, otherwise I think this combo is awesome.
1) because I have two GSC-10 speed/cadence sensors, trainer road appears that it can only pick up one at a time, so I configured TR pick-up the flywheel speed and hence give me access to virtual power. I have my Edge 500 unit on, which picks up the other for cadence, so I can do cadence drills OK, although it would be nice to have speed (power) & cadence in TR. Perhaps I should have got a speed only pickup like the new magnetless garmin one, as i reckon TR would have been able to pickup the GSC-10 as cadence and the new one for speed.
2) The variable magnetic resistance of the D2R and the corresponding power curves means you must be diligent as to what "click" setting the trainer is on. I am currently using the '8 clicks' curve, although it can be a bit difficult to ensure you are at exactly 8 and not 7 or 9. I usually have to crank it hard to the softest setting and count clicks, repeat a few times so i am confident i got it in the right spot. I suppose it doesn't matter so much which one you have it in as long as you are consistent (and assuming you are only interested in your relative performance from one session to another and don't care for absolute accuracy. I did 2 FTP tests in the first 2 sessions and came back with dramatically different results, I am convinced I perhaps had the D2r on 9 clicks the first session and then 8 for the subsequent. I will be upset if it is the other way around i.e. was 8 in first test and 7 in subsequent, as i will have taken a hit of over 50W on my FTP ;-)
Forgive the thread dig, but a few questions for the others with this trainer who run a power meter -
Do you find it difficult to hold powers for certain lengths which are pretty simple on the road? For instance, 2x20mins at threshold are unachievable on this with the resistance pumped up enough to have a normal cadence, yet are, although a decent session, very achievable on the road? Harden up you might say, but I'm pretty sure I'm tough enough for this. I've done them on other trainers with no music, tv, fan etc..
I finally cracked it tonight trying to finish a 3x10min set at threshold, when I couldn't finish the last one.
I've owned other trainers (rear wheel based, fluid and magnetic) and they were far more ridable at those sorts of power zones than this one. Is it something to do with this power curve you guys are talking about?
I'm currently running a stages..
A penny for your thoughts?
Do you find it difficult to hold powers for certain lengths which are pretty simple on the road? For instance, 2x20mins at threshold are unachievable on this with the resistance pumped up enough to have a normal cadence, yet are, although a decent session, very achievable on the road? Harden up you might say, but I'm pretty sure I'm tough enough for this. I've done them on other trainers with no music, tv, fan etc..
I finally cracked it tonight trying to finish a 3x10min set at threshold, when I couldn't finish the last one.
I've owned other trainers (rear wheel based, fluid and magnetic) and they were far more ridable at those sorts of power zones than this one. Is it something to do with this power curve you guys are talking about?
I'm currently running a stages..
A penny for your thoughts?
So are you judging your threshold power off your Stages P.M. or from virtual power in Trainer Road and one of the corresponding resistance/power curves?
If it is off the Stages then it must be pretty accurate and thus any perceived differences in your effort on the trainer versus road at the same wattage are environmental / mental ones. Alternatively, if you are using the virtual power settings in TR then there could easily be some inaccuracy.
Last week I received a 4iii precision P.M. (left crank like Stages) and on my initial ride on the trainer i was interested to see how the two numbers compared (PM vs virtual). In the brief test I did it was suffice to say there were discrepancies, and even if i "calibrated" the trainer resistance (small adjust of the lever) such that virtual power was as close to PM reading, if I significantly increased the effort the discrepancy increased. That said I didn't spend long tinkering with it and was only eyeballing the numbers (e.g. no real averaging).
I've been off my trainer for a few months prior to all this and the other thing i noticed was that there is no way I could hold the FTP i was at back then.... although i can't blame the equipment for that :heh:
The reason I found my way back to this thread was that today i noticed Cyclingexpress were offering the D2R in the cable operated as well as a bluetooth wireless model (resistance changed by an APP) which i hadnt seen before
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Anyone got idea of how Trainer Road (TR) calculate the virtual power from speed sensor? I mean without the rear wheel, TR could determine it based on a speed from sensor that has an assumed diameter. To get the correct virtual power, what is the wheel circumference value that should be set in TR when using D2R Shadow?
By the way, you dont really need a giant magnet to be zip tied to the flywheel. I just recycled a strong magnet from desktop hard drive and stick it behind the steel plate which rotate together with the cassette and any magnetic speed sensor mounted on the cover surface should be able to detect it.
By the way, you dont really need a giant magnet to be zip tied to the flywheel. I just recycled a strong magnet from desktop hard drive and stick it behind the steel plate which rotate together with the cassette and any magnetic speed sensor mounted on the cover surface should be able to detect it.
sorry for raising up this old thread - but i am in a similar situation with my flywheel / belt driven spin bike.
I already have the Wahoo RPM ANT+ sensor connected to the crank and working well.
I do not have any speed sensor yet, but need it because I want to use 'cadenceVR' SW which calculates theoretical Power.
The flywheel is front mounted.
Questions on where/how to mount this speed sensor and the ANT+ brand of this speed sensor?
Splasher
I already have the Wahoo RPM ANT+ sensor connected to the crank and working well.
I do not have any speed sensor yet, but need it because I want to use 'cadenceVR' SW which calculates theoretical Power.
The flywheel is front mounted.
Questions on where/how to mount this speed sensor and the ANT+ brand of this speed sensor?
Splasher
i dont think you have to assume any particular wheel diameter. Presumably the power curve was developed by someone whom matched RPM (rear cassette) vs power.
with the speed sensor mod on the D2R you are measuring the RPM of the cassette (which would be equivalent to rear wheel RPM were there to be a wheel). the main flywheel is 'geared up' from the rear cassette by a belt. To measure the speed I used a Garmin GSC-10, although any ant+ speed sensor would theoretically work. For you get virtual power into TR you will need to check if it is currently supported in TR.
Great Mod for fitting an 11sp Cassette
This modification for fitting an 11sp Cassette worked great! I was exploring whether changing the free hub was possible and came across this post - fantastic! Cassette is all fitted and working! Thanks! Will try the speed sensor when I come across a cheap second one to attach to the trainer - interested in knowing how you attached it to the casing though?
This modification for fitting an 11sp Cassette worked great! I was exploring whether changing the free hub was possible and came across this post - fantastic! Cassette is all fitted and working! Thanks! Will try the speed sensor when I come across a cheap second one to attach to the trainer - interested in knowing how you attached it to the casing though?
Cave Dweller
Eats Squid
Drilled two holes in the casing and zipped tied in place. Loop zip tie through the sensor just like you would zip tie the sensor to the chain stay, then feed it in one hole and out the other.
I just used some aluminium silver tape, crude but works OK.
Hi Cave Dweller,
Can you offer some more information/instructions for fixing this? I've had a look at your photo, but would love a bit more info if at all possible? I've finally got around to fitting a speed sensor - after a bit of trial and error with connectivity with my Garmin, I finally got a working solution, only to have the resistance give out :-(
Thanks!
cokeonspecialtwodollars
Fartes of Portingale
I wish that I had of picked one of these up at the time, it appears that nobody has them available anymore.