P Plater Exceptions
- Thread starter Plow King
- Start date
scblack
Leucocholic
Germany is now similar to the Northern Territory. There are very few of the autobahns that are speed un-restricted now.
Ivan
Eats Squid
OT But...
I thought the NT no longer had any unrestricted speeds. I think 130km/h is the max now?
Back OT;
I have no problem with a 16 yr old driving any vehicle on a race track or in a rally event.
I see no reason why P Platers should need to drive powerful/fast cars. Any broad restrictions are always going to miss some, and restrict some they shouldn't. It's just what happens when you consider the cost of administering such restrictions, they become a blunt tool.
One thing to consider, especially with respect to road death statistics and young driver statistics, are that modern cars, even the cheap ones, are significantly faster than sports cars from decades ago. Whilst the safety features of these vehicles have improved, the speed at which accidents occur has likely to have increased.
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jimmy-dh
Likes Dirt
I did my 120 hours in a 2010 wrx impreza and a 2011 wrx sti and since I got my red P's the other day, I've gone to a 2000 Ford Fairmont.
I know this is pretty biased but I think P platers should be allowed to drive SOME high performance cars. Simply because they're a lot safer than most of the cars P platers are reduced to. When I was in the wrx I had all wheel drive, hill assist (yeah, its pretty gay haha), traction control, ABS, Brembo Brakes, curtain airbags, amazing headlights.
Now I've gone to a car that lacks many of these things and is rear wheel drive. On my first drive, as I was so used to the all wheel drive, I went around a corner and the back got thrown out (it was real wet). Of course this is something that you get used to but if I had my own wrx i doubt this would have happened. I simply don't feel nearly as safe driving this car.
Of course I understand that many idiots would abuse the luxury of being allowed to drive such cars but I think drivers would be more skilled if they had such cars at their disposal. I think if someone had a real expensive car they would drive safer because they would be so concerned about getting a scratch on the thing haha. Please don't hate on me, just my opinion :single_eye:
I know this is pretty biased but I think P platers should be allowed to drive SOME high performance cars. Simply because they're a lot safer than most of the cars P platers are reduced to. When I was in the wrx I had all wheel drive, hill assist (yeah, its pretty gay haha), traction control, ABS, Brembo Brakes, curtain airbags, amazing headlights.
Now I've gone to a car that lacks many of these things and is rear wheel drive. On my first drive, as I was so used to the all wheel drive, I went around a corner and the back got thrown out (it was real wet). Of course this is something that you get used to but if I had my own wrx i doubt this would have happened. I simply don't feel nearly as safe driving this car.
Of course I understand that many idiots would abuse the luxury of being allowed to drive such cars but I think drivers would be more skilled if they had such cars at their disposal. I think if someone had a real expensive car they would drive safer because they would be so concerned about getting a scratch on the thing haha. Please don't hate on me, just my opinion :single_eye:
zids
Likes Dirt
Try not to forget that exceptions arent always young guys looking to drive faster cars. The 'exemption' process has helped me a great deal because dads land rover is a V8, therefore its illegal for me to drive it. Due to a lack of car numbers I often need to drive it, and it takes about half an hour to reach 100km/h anyway! So being allowed to drive it is very convenient, only possible because the rules are slightly flexible. This inevitablly brings on people who shouldnt receive an excemption but hey, nothing's perfect.
A little bit off topic, but i cant help but rant:
A mate's dad has just got a Porsche twin turbo Cayenne (diesel), and my dad has got the old Land Rover V8. I can drive the porsche but I cant drive the LR because of what goes in it! Utter stupidity I say, keeping in mind just how slow the LR is. Moral of the story, if your going to crack down on high performance cars with such ferocity, do it right! or even just slightly right..
A little bit off topic, but i cant help but rant:
A mate's dad has just got a Porsche twin turbo Cayenne (diesel), and my dad has got the old Land Rover V8. I can drive the porsche but I cant drive the LR because of what goes in it! Utter stupidity I say, keeping in mind just how slow the LR is. Moral of the story, if your going to crack down on high performance cars with such ferocity, do it right! or even just slightly right..
frenchman
Eats cheese. Sells crack.
Why though? What benefit would your WRX have over a 5 star ANCAP tested Barina? Agreed you won't have bitches from arsehole to breakfast time chasing you around town.
Whilst your wrx could of saved you, you weren't in it. I don't drive my diesel ute like I used to ride my CBR.
Starting on a high performance car would not make anyone more skilled than if you were to work your way up. You can imagine the carnage if all Moto riders started out on 1000cc race bike....
I really don't see what the fuss is about. There are literally thousands of cars to choose from already. If you really want your speed / performance fix get a shitter of a daily and buy a track car / bike.
Bjorn
Likes Dirt
I am standing up and applauding this piece of common sense.
Driving a car filled with safety features will not make you a safer driver; it just cushions your errors. Ask yourself, "Would I drive more safely in a vehicle with a steel spike pointed at my head or one in which I cannot get hurt?" I'm not suggesting all P-platers should be in death traps, but just pointing out the fallacy of the argument of saying access to rider/ driver aids will make you a more skilled operator.
Slightly OT, but a lot of us here seem to be of a performance bent. The best riders and drivers I've known have been characterised by practising their craft in an undistinguished vehicle and learning how to get the most out of it. When they have stepped up to big horsepower and good handling, they understand how to use it effectively.
First of all if we stick to required speed limits it should not matter what brakes etc you have, the rta will take into account the safe limit of the average and if not lower than average car that will be driving on the road. Second if you have enough money to buy a high performance car you have enough money to buy a 5star ancap safety rating car with less power but will still provide more than adequate safety.
You cannot drive every car as it is the same, Id be fairly confident in saying that if you were doing the recommended speed limit then taking into account the wet road you shouldn't have any issue driving the car around the corner. I drive a rear wheel drive straight 6 old torana and there is no way I drive it the same as the front wheel drive 4cyl yaris I so drive.
Personally owning the torana although it is a fairly powerful car for what it is has taught me a great deal about driving, no power steering, no traction control,rear drums front discs, it does have the old racing suspension which is awesome. But with it's low level of assists mixed with it's heavy body and decent power has helped me develop good skills and get a feel for what a car does feel like without these cushions that the modern cars have. Don't get me wrong I'm sure I don't always follow road rules to the dime and I know I really need to step up and do exactly what the rta has set out for all road users.
Having a car that passes all safety checks with minimum driving aids is ideal to learn in IMO. The torana could have more internal safety features but it's one old car.
My car wasn't expensive and I was still scared to scratch it as I love it.
No offense or anything personally against you but the arguments towards driving highpowered cars can all be worked around without compromise to safety, they are just a cop out to drive a faster car or so it sounds.
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S.
ex offender
Untrue. More than 50% of the autobahns (approx 53% actually) have no speed limits whatsoever, the others have local and/or conditional limits, some of which are switched off when the traffic is light enough and/or the conditions are good. They also have less than half the number of fatalities per kilometre traveled that the US does.
But who wants representative numbers anyway when we could be making sweeping generalisations like
"Research into the effect of driving courses on the behaviour and crash statistics of young drviers is inconclusive.
Many conclude that..."
nathanm
Eats Squid
Move to Tassie, we don't have these restrictions.
Personally I support restrictions, with a system of earning the right to exemptions through defensive, advanced and other suitable driving courses + hours behind the wheel and record.
I rember being 17 and driving my gemini on wet roads sliding round every corner I went round. If i'd been in today's 200+ kw cars then, I'd be dead or have killed someone without doubt.
My opinions have been formed through 17 years of accident free driving 5 years gravel rallying, but mostly from the day I pulled a dead 7 year old girl out of a car after it had been hit by a truck and tried to resus her, unsuccesfully. That accident was caused by a driver adjusting their stereo and wandering across the centre strip, hitting the truck forcing it onto incoming traffic and straight into the little girls door.
Mark Skaife had some good ideas on the subject recently but of course the government put the kaibosh on that as it fucks up their revenue raising, but ultimately I think the swedish (scandanavian's in general?) have the hole system pegged perfectly.
Personally I support restrictions, with a system of earning the right to exemptions through defensive, advanced and other suitable driving courses + hours behind the wheel and record.
I rember being 17 and driving my gemini on wet roads sliding round every corner I went round. If i'd been in today's 200+ kw cars then, I'd be dead or have killed someone without doubt.
My opinions have been formed through 17 years of accident free driving 5 years gravel rallying, but mostly from the day I pulled a dead 7 year old girl out of a car after it had been hit by a truck and tried to resus her, unsuccesfully. That accident was caused by a driver adjusting their stereo and wandering across the centre strip, hitting the truck forcing it onto incoming traffic and straight into the little girls door.
Mark Skaife had some good ideas on the subject recently but of course the government put the kaibosh on that as it fucks up their revenue raising, but ultimately I think the swedish (scandanavian's in general?) have the hole system pegged perfectly.
S.
ex offender
Mark Skaife was calling for the limit to be raised to 130 or 140km/h if I recall correctly... you are aware that the maximum speed limit in Norway is 80km/h right? And in Sweden it varies from 120km/h to 70km/h on the motorways? Those guys drive slower than anywhere else in the world... great if you live in high population density areas (like the Rhein-Main area, which ironically contains many unlimited autobahns) but makes no friggin sense when there is 50km between towns in rural Australia - and that's not even in the particularly remote parts. NT used to have no speed limits because it's an enormous empty space, and rightly so - why shouldn't you be allowed to do 200km/h when there's quite likely to be nobody within 100km of you?
There is a risk associated with driving a car: you might die. But more likely, you won't die, and you'll get somewhere in less time if you're allowed to drive faster.
S.
ex offender
You child murderer you!
nathanm
Eats Squid
an increase in speed limits in conjunction with much higher levels of driver training and better roads (from memory). referring to topic, how does a person with <1 years experience calculate the speed they should drive at combining their skills, experience, road conditions and abilities of other drivers. Many mature drivers still can't do that but experience goes a long way. However as I said he had "some good" idea's, they weren't all good nor every part advisable.
Imagine giving Sam Hill's bike to a novice rider and get them to ride a national DH track, sure they may make it down in one piece but what are the odds?
Best piece of advice I was ever given was by my instructor. "you don't so much have to worry about your driving ability as much as worry about all the other idiots on the road"
Whilst not personally experiencing it, I believe that many scando countries (maybe it's finland not sweden?) due to their combination of gravel, icy and snow covered roads have a massive focusing on motorsports at a younge age. Think 10 year old girls/boys doing motokhana's and the like. This is not so much for the sport but the preparation of driving to their challenging conditions later in life.
What do we have in Aus? restricted speed limits and vehicles. this doesn't teach you anything, just a bureacratic (sp?) way of keeping kids out of trouble longer.
In Tasmania we've just removed the need for people over 80 to have a compulsory licence test. WTF? Many of these people can no longer walk and toilet themselves but can drive whatever and whenever they like.
Imagine giving Sam Hill's bike to a novice rider and get them to ride a national DH track, sure they may make it down in one piece but what are the odds?
Best piece of advice I was ever given was by my instructor. "you don't so much have to worry about your driving ability as much as worry about all the other idiots on the road"
Whilst not personally experiencing it, I believe that many scando countries (maybe it's finland not sweden?) due to their combination of gravel, icy and snow covered roads have a massive focusing on motorsports at a younge age. Think 10 year old girls/boys doing motokhana's and the like. This is not so much for the sport but the preparation of driving to their challenging conditions later in life.
What do we have in Aus? restricted speed limits and vehicles. this doesn't teach you anything, just a bureacratic (sp?) way of keeping kids out of trouble longer.
In Tasmania we've just removed the need for people over 80 to have a compulsory licence test. WTF? Many of these people can no longer walk and toilet themselves but can drive whatever and whenever they like.
S.
ex offender
Not at all, was just taking the piss out of the general obsession with safety, nothing to do with you. I agree with almost everything you've said in that last post.
indica
Serial flasher
Steve out of line?
No way ...
S.
ex offender
haha yeah it's pretty much my signature move.
J
JaRedy
Guest
To clear things up, there are indeed exceptions to the rule. There is an exemption to drive a hign powered vehicle process in Queensland, and im sure other states would have it too. The catch is you need to prove that you actually NEED to be allowed to drive the car. No ammount of good driving history will help you if you cant actually prove that you NEED to drive the car.
Need = Work related purposes. Or only car in family + Work related purposes. Or only car in family + family member needs to be driven to a hospital or clinic several times a week. Etc.
My family has a van with over 200KW so im not allowed to drive it on my P's, even though thats the car I learnt to drive in!
I applied for the exemption and I didn't get it. I drive it anyway.
Need = Work related purposes. Or only car in family + Work related purposes. Or only car in family + family member needs to be driven to a hospital or clinic several times a week. Etc.
My family has a van with over 200KW so im not allowed to drive it on my P's, even though thats the car I learnt to drive in!
I applied for the exemption and I didn't get it. I drive it anyway.