Pivot Mach 4 vs Santa Cruz Carbon Blur XC

[Slowman]

My carbon epic just has too much flex and other suspension designs have caught up to the big S's brain technology and the brain is just another part to break, so KISS principle etc. etc. I'm going for a change.

So far I got it down to a choice between the new(ish) SC carbon Blur XC 4" vs the Pivot Mach 4. I believe the new "VPP2" is a better design and seems to be just as effective as the DW-link at eliminating pedal bob both in and out of the saddle.

The other thing I'm interested in is the performance of both over square edge bumps. The Pivot blurb makes a point of mentioning it but the Santa Cruz don't seem to say much about it, but since its axle path also moves rearward initially (S shape) I guess it should help there too

That said, I'd like to hear experiences from those who've ridden either or both.

 

[outtacontrol]

I have a mate who rides a Pivot Mach 4 and says that the suspension platform is incredible.
While not much to look at, he said that it climbs like a hardtail, leaping forward with every pedal stroke, with zero pedal bob.

 

[riderideride]

I had the same option and went for the Pivot.....LOVING IT!!

 

[Benizmo]

Pretty easy to get on a pivot demo if you can ride a medium(18") Brilliant bike. Not many Santa Cruz around; haven't ridden a SC myself so can't compare, but Pivot are known for there suspension performance

I doubt you will find anyone who choose the SC over the pivot, but demoing both would be the only way to compare

 

[C Dunlop]

Trek fuel ex, or topfuel.

$6500rrp for the fuel ex9.8, carbon, brain-esque shock (dcrv is sort of a 2-chamber shock) 120mm or 100mm, 142mm rear end (stiff!), light, US made frame, lifetime warranty, oclv carbon, active brake pivot works insanely well.

Lighter, stiffer, better value, and a better suspension/shock design than both.

 

[crank1979]

Trek fuel ex, or topfuel.

$6500rrp for the fuel ex9.8, carbon, brain-esque shock (dcrv is sort of a 2-chamber shock) 120mm or 100mm, 142mm rear end (stiff!), light, US made frame, lifetime warranty, oclv carbon, active brake pivot works insanely well.

Lighter, stiffer, better value, and a better suspension/shock design than both.

Lol. Sounds like something a Trek dealer employee would post! My experience of the Trek (2010 EX9.9) is that it didn't pedal as well as my Mach 5, especially when standing. I can't imagine it riding as well as a Mach 4, but maybe it does.

A Pivot Mach 4 XT build runs the same drivetrain as the Trek, comparable wheels and better fork and can be had for $300 less.

A test is obviously the best way to find out which is better suited to your riding style. I own a Mach 5 and Firebird. Coming from a Nomad the Firebird pedals so much better and does everything else equally as well. That was enough to convince me to buy a Mach 5 over a BLT2. The only negative I could think of is my dealings with the distributor, as a customer, both directly with them and through my lbs.

 

[MrCove]

done quite a lot of riding on a Blur 4X, as a trail bike, not got a SC now
IMO VPP is the best suspension system (been on and off suspension for about 15 years if that means anything)

have also riden 'VPP type' suspension, DW/Maestro/75link/etc, which are also good
currently running an FSR rear, can't really complain but the VPP was better, maybe thats down to the shock (Spesh v DHX Air)

at least as important, if not more so, is the bikes geometry
the Pivot bikes look a little short, tall and steep, although SC are a touch on the short side too

have a go on as many demo's or mates bikes as you can

if you are looking into that market try and grab ago on an Intense, Ibis, etc

plus, what year is the Spesh you currently have?
the latest model is an absolute ball tearer, by far the bes Epic to date

 

[Red Peekay]

I'm on a SC Nomad 2 Alu and I love it. If you dial your suspension in correctly, no bob, climbs really well. I've heard really good things about the Blur, would pick one up myself if I had the $$, hmmm and a tallboy while I'm at it.

I'm sure you'll be happy with either. Check out www.Neezy.com.au. They are the Australian importers and often have ex demos for sale. Even if not listed you may want to call them as not all their stock is listed. If your in Qld you may even be able to demo one. All the best!

 

[Slowman]

...
plus, what year is the Spesh you currently have?
the latest model is an absolute ball tearer, by far the bes Epic to date

So was mine when it came out the first AFR flow control brain. My epic is a carbon marathon 2007, I guess if the rear end was stiffer it would be one less reason to look around. I also have a 2007 S-Works Stumpy FSR and there is no flex in the rear when cornering hard and fast...so I measured the main pivot at the BB; the epic's is 6cm and the stumpy is 7cm wide...I think that helps explains things.

Also because I'm a plougher with no real finesse the square edge bump performance is something that I'm interested in too...hoping it will make up for a lack of finesse.

 

[Benizmo]

If your looking at those two bikes have you considered a Yeti ASR C? as well? Nice stiff frame

Bit higher price for a full build though..

 

[C Dunlop]

^^ that too. yeti suspension is so simple and so stiff. New ASR-C gets rid of the seatmast too (good) but doesn't have a tapered steerer, which seems a little bit 2010 to me. Friggen light though, and you can more or less spec one however you want. Sid Taberlay's built to 9.7kg with XX and easton haven carbon wheels.

The trek pedals better if you stand and climb, whereas the vpp bikes work a bit better if you're a sit and spin type. I don't really get debates about climbing efficiency on duallies though - the one which climbs best is the one which has the propedal lever closest. Crank is the only one who I've ever read of who disliked trek's suspension.

Everyone seems to rave about pivots, but they just don't appeal to me that much - they seem a little bit beige, they're also very spendy for an all alloy frame.

 

[riderideride]

Pivot- no need for propedal. I never use it. Climbs like a champion. Better than my hardtail.

 

[Clyde Dave]

So was mine when it came out the first AFR flow control brain. My epic is a carbon marathon 2007, I guess if the rear end was stiffer it would be one less reason to look around. I also have a 2007 S-Works Stumpy FSR and there is no flex in the rear when cornering hard and fast...so I measured the main pivot at the BB; the epic's is 6cm and the stumpy is 7cm wide...I think that helps explains things.

Also because I'm a plougher with no real finesse the square edge bump performance is something that I'm interested in too...hoping it will make up for a lack of finesse.

Test rode the Epic 29er the other week and it was unbelievable. I'm 105kg and the bike was super stiff in all conditions, and that was the light weight S-works! I would say it felt more stable over rough stuff than my Anthem 29er by a mile.

I was blown away by how well the brain works, no matter what setting you have it on, once you get into some rough stuff, it works the same. Awesome.

 

[Beechie]

Blur Pivot

Whatever fits and has a lifetime frame warranty. Had a Specialized Epic and it did nothing for me - stuck with the Scott Scale 10. However the 2010/2011 Specialzeds are much improved. Trek has the best engineering. For 4 inch fastest dual is Merida 96, lots of other racing 4 inch machines out there in 2011. Most bikes are good just some are better. LBS, sales rep of distributor and distributor are important people to deal with, in thatorder of importance. My lbs-20 years dealing, sales bloke 10 years and issues are resolved instantly. It is about more than the bike.

 

[Slowman]

The Topic

If it helps, to frame the discussion on this thread; I am simply going to swap the frame. I already have perfectly good X0 with grip shift, good wheels and other good componentry. Fitting a bike is a simple matter - I buy a LARGE and I fine tune stem length and seat post height (and setback)...so long as everything is within 25mm it's a no brainer to tailor tune the fit. I've checked the geometry of both and they are within the ball park of the measurements for me. Also both use 30.9mm diameter seat post, FD is probably the only thing I need to change.

 

[Slowman]

Pivot- no need for propedal. I never use it. Climbs like a champion. Better than my hardtail.

Is there any bob when out of the saddle? My Stumpy has some slight movement (more that I can see the cables flexing a bit) and the Epic is practically nil it feels like a HT.

 

[riderideride]

Is there any bob when out of the saddle? My Stumpy has some slight movement (more that I can see the cables flexing a bit) and the Epic is practically nil it feels like a HT.

Not when going up hill, only ever noticed it if I get out of the saddle on the flat.

 

[steve24]

I had the same choice and went SC, love it.
Have done 2 solo 24s on it. Around 9.7 kg with UST tires in race trim!

Best bike i hace ever riden.

 

[crank1979]

Pivot- no need for propedal. I never use it. Climbs like a champion. Better than my hardtail.

+1!

A decent suspension system won't need a lockout to be efficient.

 

[Slowman]

I had the same choice and went SC, love it.
Have done 2 solo 24s on it. Around 9.7 kg with UST tires in race trim!

Best bike i hace ever riden.

Does it bounce around out of the saddle?

I think VPP(2) uses pedal kickback against itself to cancel out any bob whereas DW uses a slightly horizontal rearward initial movement to prevent it. I don't really care if either system work.