Plastic bags, climate change, renewable energy,

[hifiandmtb]

@ozzybmx your data isn't as informative

I am not arguing against any renewable or clean energy source, I am only pointing out facts.

I have worked in the power industry since I was 16, now 47.

We should 100% be looking for alternative power generating sources but see my above graph, no solar... but some wind.

Still 30,000MW an HOUR still needed to power Australia right now at 10.25pm at night.

That would drain the Muskrats 100mw battery in half a second.

Ok, so you & I agree on the magnitude of the problem - transitioning the electricity sector to 100% renewables. Sweet.

CC science gives us a transition trajectory - IIRC, we need to decrease CO2 emissions by 8% per annum from now, continuing without change until we hit that goal. Check out where we were last year:

Implementation should include everything from energy use reduction (rationing), carbon pricing & technology introduction.

Also more fucktardedry - we are only discussing Straya electricity sector energy production here...

 

[ozzybmx]

The later we leave starting such things...the later they finish.

100% agree but we dont have the capacity to shut down coal plant and keep the lights on, we dont have the wind, solar or power storage to even come close to replacing the thermal power plants.
Gas is clean compared to coal or oil but its still looked at as a fossil fuel, we need more gas or Nuclear to replace the massive coal power producers in Australia, then the impact of 10 of thousands of regional jobs lost.

There is no short term solution without blackouts, I will see the next 10yrs till retirement out in a thermal plant, its gas but you will see a few of the bigger coal plants close in the next few years.

There will need to be a massive cash injection into batteries, synchronous condensers, solar and wind for that to happen... power storage is the key.

 

[pink poodle]

100% agree but we dont have the capacity to shut down coal plant and keep the lights on, we dont have the wind, solar or power storage to even come close to replacing the thermal power plants.
Gas is clean compared to coal or oil but its still looked at as a fossil fuel, we need more gas or Nuclear to replace the massive coal power producers in Australia, then the impact of 10 of thousands of regional jobs lost.

There is no short term solution without blackouts, I will see the next 10yrs till retirement out in a thermal plant, its gas but you will see a few of the bigger coal plants close in the next few years.

There will need to be a massive cash injection into batteries, synchronous condensers, solar and wind for that to happen... power storage is the key.

I think the word is transition...



...but also people could try using less. Wild and outrageous suggestion I know, but just like driving the car everywhere...do we really need to always have so many things on? Speaking of, we have a new team member at one of my places of employment. She tells me they her other job is about 3 minutes drive from home, so a lot easier to get to than where we work together. Hmmmmmm...

 

[ozzybmx]

@ozzybmx your data isn't as informative
Check out where we were last year:

In the Latrobe Valley (Vic), there are 3 coal plants, it costs them $8 a MW to produce power, it costs us $80-$110 an hour to make electricity due to fluctuating gas prices... due to most of Aus gas going to China as LPG. Have they taxed that yet ?

All the coal plants in Aus produce power at 10% of the price of the cleaner plants, why do you think they continue to run, that's where the shareholder put their cash, its a massive profit.

Run the cheap plants full steam ahead, cycle the more expensive plants as peak load stations (gas-cleaner)

 

[hifiandmtb]

Gas is clean compared to coal or oil but its still looked at as a fossil fuel...

We are in a CO2 overshoot scenario, it is a FF and contributes to the problem. Please don't call it "clean".

 

[ozzybmx]

I think the word is transition...

...but also people could try using less. Wild and outrageous suggestion I know, but just like driving the car everywhere.

We about to get rid of petrol cars and go electric... where the f%#k is that going to come from.

 

[ozzybmx]

Please don't call it "clean".

Cars, Planes, Trains, BBQs... dont stop at the big stuff. All the little stuff helps

 

[hifiandmtb]

We about to get rid of petrol cars and go electric... where the f%#k is that going to come from.

Individual EV car ownership is not going to fix anything.

 

[pink poodle]

We about to get rid of petrol cars and go electric... where the f%#k is that going to come from.

Electric car is still a car...

 

[hifiandmtb]

1. CO2 burp during manufacturing (IIRC, Tesla Model 3 something like 6t CO2)
2. FF supported electricity grid
3. Number of EVs required to replace existing cars (resource issues)

All issues that need to be addressed.
All issues ignored by most, including this ludicrous article in the Guardian today:

Australia's cheapest EV: can it survive a week of on-street parking and one very sandy dog?

The MG ZS EV brings electric cars into the realm of financial possibility for many more families. But is there a gap between possible and practical?

www.theguardian.com

Seems EVs are permission purchases - permission to keep on truckin'!

 

[ozzybmx]

Individual EV car ownership is not going to fix anything.

Neither is turning off thermal power plants when there is no replacement.

Nuclear is the only clean(er) replacement.

Anyone who thinks batteries, solar and wind is going to replace anything in the next 50yrs is dreaming.

Then how the fuck do you replace the batteries, panels and wind turbines at the end of their life using only wind, solar and battery power

Nothing in this world is 100% efficient !

 

[hifiandmtb]

Neither is turning off thermal power plants when there is no replacement.

Nuclear is the only clean(er) replacement.

Anyone who thinks batteries, solar and wind is going to replace anything in the next 50yrs is dreaming.

Then how the fuck do you replace the batteries, panels and wind turbines at the end of their life using only wind, solar and battery power

Nothing in this world is 100% efficient !

Who are you arguing with?

 

[pink poodle]

Neither is turning off thermal power plants when there is no replacement.

Actually that would be very effective...but it would really upset a lot of people.

 

[ozzybmx]

Actually that would be very effective...but it would really upset a lot of people.

Years back, power cuts were normal, now days if fuckers lose WiFi for 15min, cant charge their phone or watch TV its murder. Lost $100000 worth of food in their freezer, kids need therapy... its not what people pay their connection charge for apparently.

 

[ozzybmx]

Who are you arguing with?

Nobody really, just trying to point out that renewables are not possible with the current infrastructure.

Hugging trees do not keep people cool or charge their phones.

Refer to last 3 load graphs.

 

[Haakon]

Neither is turning off thermal power plants when there is no replacement.

Nuclear is the only clean(er) replacement.

Anyone who thinks batteries, solar and wind is going to replace anything in the next 50yrs is dreaming.

Then how the fuck do you replace the batteries, panels and wind turbines at the end of their life using only wind, solar and battery power

Nothing in this world is 100% efficient !

Do you really work in the electricity industry? Because you’ve got some ideas rooted in the 1960s going on there. Things have moved on a bit.

 

[Oddjob]

I have been involved in the construction and commissioning of 3 different power plants and worked in 5. The ball park build time of a Nuclear plant is 5 years if everything is 100% but in most situations with a bit of bullshit and fudging figures, its been around 7. Not all the plant is ready to go in the 5yr timeframe, there are contractors still there for 3-5yrs after.

I would absolute bet with Aussie crap and green tape with the 1st Nuclear plant built in this country, stop work, safety, EPA and the tree hugging protests, it will be easily 10yrs or more.

This is not a boat mate

I was involved in the running and sale of Delta, Eraring and Macquarie Generation. I also got involved with Horizons newest plant and some of their islanded systems in remote communities.

From a conception to full operation standpoint it's the financing, design and approvals that takes about 50% of the time. And even then you still get some massive fuckups, due to electrical engineers not being able to help themselves and gold plating stuff.

The way I see it, Australia could work with the US, China, Japan, and Korea to get an efficient production line up of small (100MW) travelling wave reactors (TWR) that could be containerised and transported easily.

They could be grouped together to effectively replace coal plants at current transmission points within 15 years. TWR have no value in producing nuclear weapons and they would ship with enough fuel to last their service life. The small size also means that they could be encased in concrete for security underneath suburban substations and avoid the construction of transmission lines altogether.

Toshiba and a chinese company already have licensing agreements with Terrapower in the US. We just need the will.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[Haakon]

I was involved in the running and sale of Delta, Eraring and Macquarie Generation. I also got involved with Horizons newest plant and some of their islanded systems in remote communities.

From a conception to full operation standpoint it's the financing, design and approvals that takes about 50% of the time. And even then you still get some massive fuckups, due to electrical engineers not being able to help themselves and gold plating stuff.

The way I see it, Australia could work with the US, China, Japan, and Korea to get an efficient production line up of small (100MW) travelling wave reactors (TWR) that could be containerised and transported easily.

They could be grouped together to effectively replace coal plants at current transmission points within 15 years. TWR have no value in producing nuclear weapons and they would ship with enough fuel to last their service life. The small size also means that they could be encased in concrete for security underneath suburban substations and avoid the construction of transmission lines altogether.

Toshiba and a chinese company already have licensing agreements with Terrapower in the US. We just need the will.

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But why bother? New build is so much cheaper with renewables.

 

[Oddjob]

But why bother? New build is so much cheaper with renewables.

Because those pesky electrical engineers de-rate wind by 96% in their planning and peak demand doesn't align with peak solar production. Storage just isn't there yet, and we need to move quickly.

Also, if you get the cost of nuclear down far enough we can start sucking CO2 out of the atmosphere when demand is low.

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[Freediver]

I was involved in the running and sale of Delta, Eraring and Macquarie Generation. I also got involved with Horizons newest plant and some of their islanded systems in remote communities.

From a conception to full operation standpoint it's the financing, design and approvals that takes about 50% of the time. And even then you still get some massive fuckups, due to electrical engineers not being able to help themselves and gold plating stuff.

The way I see it, Australia could work with the US, China, Japan, and Korea to get an efficient production line up of small (100MW) travelling wave reactors (TWR) that could be containerised and transported easily.

They could be grouped together to effectively replace coal plants at current transmission points within 15 years. TWR have no value in producing nuclear weapons and they would ship with enough fuel to last their service life. The small size also means that they could be encased in concrete for security underneath suburban substations and avoid the construction of transmission lines altogether.

Toshiba and a chinese company already have licensing agreements with Terrapower in the US. We just need the will.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

Let's build one that works before we start making big plans.

Nobody really, just trying to point out that renewables are not possible with the current infrastructure.

Hugging trees do not keep people cool or charge their phones.

Refer to last 3 load graphs.

But we can change the infrastructure