Proper recovery from long rides. Mistaking tiredness for hungriness?

[John U]

John, I'd just add that the simple sugars versus complex etc is stupidly different for a diabetic whether type 1 or type 2. I was only commenting on people without diabetes. Even someone with impaired glucose function might need to tread differently to an average person

Not sure about type 2 diabetes but for me my aim is to get my blood sugars as close to a non diabetic as possible. I think if insulin doses were able to match a non diabetic then food intake for a given activity could be very similar to a non diabetic. Insulin injections are a bit of a blunt instrument though, and once you've had it there's no taking it out so then you need to consume food according to the insulin dose you've had and the intensity and duration of your physical effort.

I pack quite a bit of extra stuff every ride to cater for every possible scenario otherwise I could end up passed out on the track. Hasn't happened in 20 years of mountain biking as I always prepare well. 24 solo last year was interesting as it was unchartered territory but I found another diabetic who'd had quite a few goes at it and had podiumed. His advice turned out to be spot on.

I have to keep a constant eye on my blood sugar levels. If I go too low it can impact my ability to ride, make me cramp, and eventually make me pass out. Too high and it will cause dehydration, cramping, and long term complications. Simple sugars have an immediate impact which is good if I'm low but too much of it and it'll make me go too high. Complex carbs have a more level effect over a longer period which is more ideal for me on an average day when trying to thread the needle between too low and too high. From my experience though, it's not possible to get sufficient out put from complex carbs to provide enough energy for sustained intense activity so it needs to supplemented with constant input of small amounts of simple carbs.

 

[bear the bear]

I've been doing more and more long rides (on the roadie) and I'll usually take a piece of banana bread and a gel or 2 with me (for a 100km+ ride) plus 2 bidons (one with water, one with low carb electrolyte mix). I've noticed that even though I've been riding a lot, I've put on a bit of fat, around the stomach in particular.

I was flicking through some other threads and read something that made me think I might be doing something wrong. The comment I read said that it's easy to misinterpret tiredness from a ride as the body needing more fuel/food. This got me thinking, am I recovering from my rides, or am I just substituting more food for what my body really needs after a long ride?

For example, I rode 100km on the weekend (1200m climbing) and consumed:
• 1 bowl of porridge with honey (pre-ride)
• 1.5L of water
• 750ml electrolyte mix (Endura Rehydration mix)
• 1 piece of banana bread
• 2 gels (1 at 50km, 1 at 90km)
• 1 large thickshake (post ride)
• 1 footlong chicken fillet subway + can of coke (post-post ride)

During the ride I did feel like I needed some of that to avoid bonking, and I was pretty wrecked by the end, but I don't recall ever feeling starving or feeling like I had a particularly empty stomach.

Is it a common mistake to misinterpret tiredness as needing more food and just eating, eating, eating, instead of recovering using other methods? I could probably do with more sleep I imagine…

I'm the posterboy of how not to ride long distance (I can do it, but riding on sh!t is more fun):

-2 x black coffees;
-5x gels;

and 160k and 5.5hrs later sore legs....

Can you please provide how long 100k is taking, if you are on Strava your estimated number of calories burnt...unless you are running a powermeter?

Also keep in mind if you are judging progress by weight loss/ gain it's only part of the picture. It could be that due to your recent increase in riding that you have gained muscle mass and depending on weigh in time your body may have stored water to compensate for your exercise.

 

[Elbo]

I'm the posterboy of how not to ride long distance (I can do it, but riding on sh!t is more fun):

-2 x black coffees;
-5x gels;

and 160k and 5.5hrs later sore legs....

Can you please provide how long 100k is taking, if you are on Strava your estimated number of calories burnt...unless you are running a powermeter?

Also keep in mind if you are judging progress by weight loss/ gain it's only part of the picture. It could be that due to your recent increase in riding that you have gained muscle mass and depending on weigh in time your body may have stored water to compensate for your exercise.

2 coffees and 5 gels… that would not be a pleasant post ride shit:lever:

Not using a power meter or HRM but these are the latest stats from my last 3 big rides on Strava:
• Ryde to La Perouse and back - 100km, 1000m climbing, 4hr 45min (including halfway coffee break), estimated calories burnt: 2580.
• Redfern to Wollongong - 97km, 1250m climbing, 5hrs, estimated calories burnt: 2900
• Sydney to Newcastle - 197km, 1900m climbing, 8hrs, estimated calories burnt: 5270

Definitely noticed I've put on muscle in my legs, and legs are toned up a bit more now, but just noticed my spare tire seemed to have grown and I had a general feeling of tiredness which I noticed I was trying to fix with more food.

 

[rowdyflat]

As a doctor I counsell people against that , sorry but as others have said its a ridiculous amount of high GI sugar + carbohydrates.

 

[Elbo]

As a doctor I counsell people against that , sorry but as others have said its a ridiculous amount of high GI sugar + carbohydrates.

Thanks mate, I realise now how much sugar and carbs I've been taking in. Are you talking directly about gels above there ^? It's funny, I hadn't even had a gel before 2014. Had 1 promotional sample at the Scott 24hr in 2014, then working in a bike shop, I've just become accustomed to picking up a couple on friday for weekend rides, instead of watching my diet and energy requirements and eating accordingly. The easy availability of them (and fast food) has exposed a behavioural trait I'll have to work on.

 

[franco cozzo]

As a doctor I counsell people against that , sorry but as others have said its a ridiculous amount of high GI sugar + carbohydrates.

whats your take on hydration / food required for a 5-6hr ride doc? (in comfortable / average conditions, medium intensity...)
obviously water is necessary....but is food actually required during the ride if you feel there is no need and you are comfortable and able to maintain a constant output?

 

[rowdyflat]

Obviously a lot of variables here such as age , weight ,fitness, type of riding and the weather.
In really hot weather or doing a lot of vertical you may need a litre of water an hour, the best guide is the colour of your urine.
If it is yellowish or you arent weeing much you are getting dehydrated.
The best foods after a ride are a mixture of proteins and complex carbs to replace whats lost.
Some sweet stuff w the low GI carbs is OK eg fruit , cake , muesli bars depends on what you like to eat.
I think gels and sweet drinks can cause the blood sugar to fluctuate too much but every person is a bit diiferent.
I personally dont need to eat much while I am exercising for up to 3hrs and can make up for it later but if you are the skinny type that needs food during a ride slow release stuff and 1 coffee is OK.
Generally excessive tiredness causes a rapid pulse which doesnt slow easily to its resting rate.

 

[franco cozzo]

...thanks. appreciate the considered reply...overall sounds pretty close to what i thought

 

[Psimpson7]

Interesting comments in here. I've done 4 rides of over 100k so far this year.

basic details:

105km - 1500m climning - 3hrs41
102km - 263m climbing - 3hrs16
130km - 2600m climbing - 4hrs58
103km - 293m climbing - 3hrs23

for the 2 flatter rides, I didn't take any food, and I don't think I even ate breakfast. I also just took 2 750ml water bottles.

For the 105k / 1500m climbing ride I would have had a piece of toast with honey and a banana before hand and that's all, but took more water

for the 130k / 2600m climbing ride, I had the same breakfast, and took another banana and a winners bar with me. I also had a powder (tailwind I think) in the water in my camelback, one water bottle of water and one of gatorade.

I would have had a meal when I got home. either a breakfast or lunch

I do about 350ks a week and dont think I eat a huge amount.

 

[rowdyflat]

That 3rd ride 130 km w 2600m of climbing is a huge fast ride in less than 5 hrs.
you must be small ,young and fit.
Also was that total altitude change measured w a barometer GPS or strava?
The recommendation is to eat a decent breakfast before any sort of long ride especially in cold weather or you can hit the wall and run out of energy .

 

[Psimpson7]

That 3rd ride 130 km w 2600m of climbing is a huge fast ride in less than 5 hrs.
you must be small ,young and fit.
Also was that total altitude change measured w a barometer GPS or strava?
The recommendation is to eat a decent breakfast before any sort of long ride especially in cold weather or you can hit the wall and run out of energy .

Fairly fit but not that young anymore (37) and about 65kgs

That height was off the Strava app on my S5, but my Garmin was within 150meters or so from memory (I could check later). I normally find my phone/strava more pessimistic than my 510 so just use the figures from that. The 510 always seems to exaggerate.

https://www.strava.com/activities/466020831

total time was 5.04 looking at the link. moving was 4.58. got stuck at a few traffic lights and a couple of picture stops I think

Agree re Breakfast. I normally don't but with the hilly rides I try and force myself too.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Fairly fit but not that young anymore (37) and about 65kgs

Holly crap that is light, lets not have a race, your power to weight ratio must be pretty nice!

 

[bear the bear]

2 coffees and 5 gels… that would not be a pleasant post ride shit:lever:

Not using a power meter or HRM but these are the latest stats from my last 3 big rides on Strava:
• Ryde to La Perouse and back - 100km, 1000m climbing, 4hr 45min (including halfway coffee break), estimated calories burnt: 2580.
• Redfern to Wollongong - 97km, 1250m climbing, 5hrs, estimated calories burnt: 2900
• Sydney to Newcastle - 197km, 1900m climbing, 8hrs, estimated calories burnt: 5270

Definitely noticed I've put on muscle in my legs, and legs are toned up a bit more now, but just noticed my spare tire seemed to have grown and I had a general feeling of tiredness which I noticed I was trying to fix with more food.

Firstly every body is different in how they fuel themselves and burn fuel (carbs vs fat)

Based on the standard 1:3 formula you should be eating ~ 800- 1000cals total during the ride or 170 to 200cals per hour which is in the normal range.
This equates to 1-2 gels per hour or 1 bottle of carb mix.
TBH your post ride isn't out of the ordinary, though I would suggest you swap the thickshake for either plain chocolate or strawberry milk (500-700mls depending on level of dehydration) and water...lots of water.

Also consider that your metabolism maybe elevated for a couple of days after a long ride with your body trying to replenish the calories burnt....can't help with this other than be aware of the desire and indulgence it within reason or ride more to offset the desire

 

[big gags]

Rule number 91 - No food on training rides under 4 hours…

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

Remember that one and Rule #5 and you should pretty well be right!!!

Gags

 

[Elbo]

Rule number 91 - No food on training rides under 4 hours…

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

Remember that one and Rule #5 and you should pretty well be right!!!

Gags

Haha, duly noted kind sir!

 

[The Duckmeister]

carbohydrates are a sugar...

Got that arse-about. Carbohydrates include sugars, but not all carbs are sugars. Starches - they're the complex ones - are the other main form of carbohydrates.

Simple carbs - the sugars - are consumed by the body fairly rapidly, so you get the energy hit, followed by the crash as the energy runs out. Complex carbs - the starches - take longer for the body to burn, so you get a more sustained energy release.