Race vomits and cramps?

[dusty_nz]

Been back in the saddle for around 12 months now. Gone from Fat, flabby and slow to Lean mean and lot faster.

Last couple of 5+ hour races I have been noticing that my stomach has been backing up till the vomit point.

Over a month ago now I had the Jarradale 6 hour. First long race run for a while. Prep for the Dwellingup 100.

Within 2 hours my stomach is in my throat, cramping starting to kick in and can't get fluids or food in.
By the 4 hour mark I am a mess, Can't even get out of the saddle, times are blowing out and world of suffering. At the 4 hour mark I stop fighting and decimate this poor tree with 4 hours of water and fuel. Massive vomit.
I chug over a litre of water with a few electrolyte tabs and bang, 15 minutes I am recovering, stronger and cramps are fading.

I then ride as fast as I can without running out of fuel and manage just under 100km in 6 hours.

Dwellingup 100 I had a similar thing happen but was aware and stop forcing water and fuel and only sipped water. Still got hit with cramps and forced a purge but overall not a major impact to times.

Have been doing the scientific approach for riding.
I have upto 3l of water in my camelbak. usually 2 shots tablets for electrolytes only and try to aim for 1 litre per hour.
My drink bottle has a homemade mix of Maltodextrin at 300 calories/hour. 15 grams protein and a little muscle eze. Usually aim for 3-4 hours of fuel per bottle like this.

I used this mixture for the 5 Dams race (240km and 2500meters climbing) and it was awesome but not race intensity. Low average HR (150 over 9 hours). D100 was over 170 over 5 hours)

Note the I completed the Dwellingup 100 in just over 5 hours 30. which is decent but not amazing. Would like to break 5 hours next year.

Thoughts?
I am pretty sure that if I stopped taking fuel and took just water with electrolytes then I would not have a problem. Am I over doing the 300 calories/hour for races?

Would it be better to aim for 150 calories/hour and reduce the stomach stress.

PS. I am yet to take a pee on a race and usually number of hours after before the first toilet stop so dehydration might be a contributor.

 

[wilddemon]

Dusty this is deja vu.

How long was your break, and how old are you? 170 avg over 5 hours seems pretty high. Do you think maybe your just asking too much of your body in too short a time? I mean I'm jealous too, maybe I'm not pushing hard enough. Been a while since I've puked on a ride... I've had similar issues with regard to consuming food on a ride but my path was to consume a bit less rather than push that uneasy feeling. I trained a bit on a spin bike at med to high intensity while eating different things which helped, also got an idea of what foods I find easier to stomach when I'm gasping.

Good on you for your ambitions. Seems there is enough going on to warrant your own training / racing thread. I'd follow. Keen to see your lead up and race for 3 peaks. Good luck.

Demon

 

[0psi]

Could be a few things, maybe just pushing yourself a little too hard? Do you feel light headed at all? I do a run session I like to call 'the big night out' (as it's often done on a Saturday night) that involves 4-5k of tempo running then hill repeats. Makes me spew nearly every time.

Alternatively I'd look at what you're eating/drinking. I can't do Gu chews as they just make me ill, no idea why, Gu gels are fine. Experiment in training and never 'try' anything when racing.

 

[dusty_nz]

Hit 40 this year. height of 181cm. Weight at 86kg is around 12% body fat (Calipers) so above average muscle

Lot of cycling when I was 15, Then 30 and now 40.

I was pretty good back when 30. Even had some initial sponser chats (very low level) but I like riding but not as a compulsory job. Even at that stage I never trained, Just played a lot so still a long way to go.

Last year I decided enough. 110kg and shocking blood pressure and fitness. Was active (Kit surfing, diving etc) but certainly not fit.

2011 D100 (Sept) I got a 7:30 time. Over weight and chasing a lung infection. Then dropped heaps of weight and started to investigate training versus just riding. Eg riding for fitness so play was more fun versus just playing all the time.

April 2012 I started the 5 Dams race at 86kg and completed it with a 8:20 ride time and having to physically push a mate for the last 70km.

Have good heart (Still can maintain over 190 for over 60 seconds and peak at 195), Lungs are larger than average.

PS. Complain to your doctor about continual chest pain. Scares them about heart attack, Got a full cardiac evaluation and lung test (Closed chamber). Results were very helpful.

I am currently training to reduce muscle mass by running lower gears on flats and hills. Used to be a sprinter but knees don't really like it anymore.

So thats me.

My D100 was actually paced well. Managed to support a consistent HR for the whole race.
Out of a reachable 195 I peaked at 186 and paced to keep between 160 and 170 the whole race. I can do a 1:20, 20km sprint at 180hr ave.
Even managed to up the pace on the last 10 km. Then raced in a 135km road race the next day (Wife was out of time so lots of leave passes)

I do agree that my time reflects my fitness. If I was fitter then stomach would not have been as much of an issue. Didn't get light headed but sure most of my blood was going to my legs.

I am more curious if I am stressing my stomach too much by forcing 300 calories/hour. Was going to start training with 1/2 that and then try a few races at 150cal/hour. Simple case of less solids and more fluids.

http://app.strava.com/rides/21997738

 

[steve24]

I find a big part of training for long races is to see what i can tolerate food wise....

Also what is your pre race meal plan? I eat 3.5- 4 hours before a race (even get up early, eat and back to bed if it's an early start.
I have often made the mistake of eating too much solid food (even the night before) and end up with stomach problems.
Try changing what you are drinking. Sounds like it might be a bit intense for your stomach??

For me high5 4+1 works really well with gels, don't eat much solid stuff....

 

[Anarchist]

Sounds to me like:
A) going too hard for too long (best cause of cramps ever!).
B) too many carbs thus slowing gastric emptying = full stomach for too long = poor absorption = vomit. This also helps cramps come up.
C) probably too much water. This is worth investigation as I used to do the 1 lt/hr thing but that was too much. More like .75/hr. It depends a lot on your acclimatisation and temperature, etc.
D) too many solids?
E) try it all before race day.

Notice that after you unloaded, you felt better and the electrolytes and limited carbs did their thing? I believe that you cannot replace what you have used in an endurance situation, but you can replenish and supplement to a point. Your body is very good at determining how much it needs in terms of carbs especially. Too much and the gut stops moving anything through, so to speak. There is a good argument for using the fat stores and just topping up the CHO levels. Your experience may vary but, it might be worth a look at the above.

 

[mars mtb]

Hey Dusty,

Similar theme to the others, but short summary, dehydration, intake volumes and what you are eating, motor, trying to race a Rex around Bathurst at continual V8 speeds is a recipe for disaster.

You have changed physique in a relatively short space of time, you are still learning what your body is comfortable and capable of, as well as it adjusting to its new form.

Don't force feed or drink too much. Test out eating and drinking different things on different training rides. Go on some longer rides with mates who are stronger so you can test practically their solid pace vs your race pace as you test what you take in. Being mates they will back it off according to what you can do.

As for age, that should be no barrier, plenty of very fast people heaps older than you. What does that mean? It means you will get faster and better.

Good luck.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

The vomiting and cramps are due to dehydration and carb depletion. As you dehydrate the blood becomes viscus along with steadily depleting/reducing glucose in the blood stream, your splanchnic system (stomach/intestine) can no longer 'process' whats in your stomach and it gets evacuated the easiest way - out the mouth. Cramps are a side effect of the dehydration.

As has been mention, you taking in too many carbs? (+ dump the protein, it's no help in endurance), which actually reduces absorption (of both carbs AND fluid) - 8% per 100ml never any more. you can take in roughly 300 calories presuming 1lt water per hour.

Also well worth training to get used to drinking more and eating during a endurance event, its a learnt ability, something the the sports science/dietetics spend time with the athlete learning.

AIS has some good info.
http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/factsheets

 

[carpetrunner]

maybe too much too early?

The first time I did the fling - I was camping next to one of the elites.
We had a chat over coffee, ...this was my first MTB race,
he said the best advice he could give me - was don't take on carbs for the first hour.

I know I can make 2 hours on half strength staminade at race pace and not hit the wall, but it's not long after that... I usually start with the carbs at around 90min in.

I'm not into gels, I find chocolate coated honeycomb is easier to down and around the same kJ/g as a gel, with no wrapper to litter the trails. I'm using a climber's chalk bag full of cubes.

3 or 4 pieces of chocolate coated honeycomb per hour, 1 biddon of half strength staminade per hour (for a 20C day) - I'm 81kg, 178cm and much older than you (52).

- Carpetrunner

 

[scubasully]

http://www.time-to-run.com/training/articles/10mistakes.htm

i came across this website the other day and i think it may be helpfull for you

especially - the fact that the body can only absorb between 450-600mls of fluid per hour. and anything more will dilute the sodium levels in your body and create the same outcome as being dehydrated.

also in regards to food i asked an hawian iron man who i work with how much should you eat during a race and he aims
for 1 gram of CHO, per KG or body weight per hour.

As above i agree with not eating for about the first hour as you should have good glycogen stores from a CHO load.

anyway hope this helps and you can keep on improving.

 

[dusty_nz]

http://www.time-to-run.com/training/articles/10mistakes.htm

i came across this website the other day and i think it may be helpfull for you

especially - the fact that the body can only absorb between 450-600mls of fluid per hour. and anything more will dilute the sodium levels in your body and create the same outcome as being dehydrated.

also in regards to food i asked an hawian iron man who i work with how much should you eat during a race and he aims
for 1 gram of CHO, per KG or body weight per hour.

As above i agree with not eating for about the first hour as you should have good glycogen stores from a CHO load.

anyway hope this helps and you can keep on improving.

Not argueing but the fluid intake seems low?

I was told that the benchmark is peeing during a ride. If you are under hydrated then you won't pee, If you are over then you will.

You want to be just under needing to pee during a race.

I did a 4 hour MTB ride (saddle time versus ride time) and drank 3 litres of water and was chasing fluids all nite. Prob drank another 5 litres off the bike. This 3 litres included 2 electrolyte tabs as well.

I tend to sweat a lot when riding.

Advice?

 

[pharmaboy]

Not argueing but the fluid intake seems low?

I was told that the benchmark is peeing during a ride. If you are under hydrated then you won't pee, If you are over then you will

not that i ever suffer from these problems, but i dont agree the balance point is that tight - the AIS fact sheet on hydration is about as evidenced based as it gets - from that the need to pee is definately over hydrated, and you can be 2kg lighter at finish and not have any performance drop off - my urine is dark for a number of hours after a hard ride, and the best way to prepare is monitor yourself.

A training diary would be helpful - weigh with digital scales before leaving, drink one bottle immediately before ride, and measure what you take with you, then measure what you have left after say 4hours, and keep note of the temperature of the ride, and exertion.

One riding buddy suffers hugely from cramps, hes tried every supplement etc, and i just wonder if on the link above, its point number one - ie he drinks too much too early. But for all the info on cramps - the reality is we know buggar all about causes and solutions.

For someone with a real problem - i reckon going to a race track and going hard, and weighing yourself and then your camelback every 2nd lap, may well provide the info of what is going on, and what can be changed.

If you are going so hard that you feel sick and cant drink or eat, then perhaps you are simply going too hard, you need to go at a pace where drinking is natural after you have sweated, and eating is done in small amounts and often

 

[Dafatkid]

Well, it sounds like, as others have mentioned, that you are going too hard and your digestion has shut down.

If you go too hard at any stage of an endurance event, your body goes into self preservation mode and shunts blood from your gut(non essential) and puts it in your arms/legs/brain/organs for the "survival" of your body. Kinda like the fight n flight responce.

Try dropping the protein.
Try dropping the electrolyte tabs
Try adding Salt tablets, as per dosage on package
300 Cal per hr isn't "heaps", but, at that intensity you are likely to keep having the spews. Try training on water only up to 1.5hrs. This helps retrain your body to utelise what "fuels" it has on board for fuel.
There is a product on the market, expensive yet effective, call Infinit. Google it. *Disclaimer: I do NOT know anyone in the business of selling/promoting Infinit, but I have heard it is great stuff.

Having done a few long course Triathlons I have experienced and learned a bit about how NOT to fuel.

Hoping that those experiences can help me when I come to entering a MTB race.

The only differences I can see are that the intensities that are reached on a MTB far exceed that of a LONG course triathlon.

Hope this helps.