Reynolds 853 frames/bikes v. modern bikes?

cleeshoy

cleeshoy

Eats Squid
Hey guys. Since I bought a new MTB last year (2005 Kona Dawg :p ), my older bike (1997 Norco Team Issue hardtail) seems to be seeing less and less action. Am not quite ready to part with it just yet, but am wondering what the quality of these "old school" bikes are like compared to the bikes of nowadays? My Norco has a Reynolds 853 frame (steel?) and from what I can tell these frames don't seem to be around much anymore? Not sure why because the thing feels so strong and LIGHT! :) When I put the Dawg in the boot of the car I feel like I am going to get a damn hernia:confused: . Mind you having dual suspension is much more "comfortable" (now that I am getting on in years! :cool: ). Anyways interested in people's opinions of old school v. new.
 
Superman

Superman

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Wait for sammydog to post pics of his Proflex........things. :p

And sorry, I dont/shouldnt have an opinion, because I wasnt into bikes at the time of oldschool.

Sam
 
Grip

Grip

Yeah, yeah... blah, blah.
I think you're actually asking two completely different questions there.... a little like comparing apples to oranges.

I could answer the question of steel Vs aluminium IF I had about a hundred and fifty pages in me.... but I don't so maybe it will at least help to tell you that many bikes are still made out of CrMo (steel alloys such as 4130 or 853) for the strength and "feel" that steel gives to the ride as well as to suit the usage its designed for. Aluminium just happens to be a more "economical" material to use in frame building in SO many ways. You'll definitely find "steel" in use much more on hardtails than dual suspension bikes.

The question of Old-School Vs Modern is pretty tough to answer IF you're trying to compare your Norco to the Kona... like I said... apples and oranges. The overall difference between old and modern though is technology. The materials are no different (same alloys and steels as were being used 10 years ago) but the WAY those materials are employed has changed resulting in bikes that look and "ride" very differently to older bikes. For example... suspension has developed so much that frame geometry has morphed to take advantage of it, leaving us with bikes/frames that would have been almost impossible to ride well/fast/efficiently 10 years ago. Similarly, tyres have also developed a lot, allowing for advances in frame design.

Just a few examples to think about:)
 
kingroon

kingroon

Likes Bikes
Too right Grip, but if I may, whilst I have a few minutes free at work ;)

Steel is very much still alive in the world of Mountain Biking, it's resilience and versatility as a frame building material are unsurpassed. Just check out www.ifbikes.com, www.sevencycles.com, www.sycip.com for starters.. There's only one better material; Titanium ;)

You can repair Steel. Crack a joint? Weld it back up. Bend it? Replace the offending tube. Crack an Aluminium frame and it might make a nice ornament somewhere, but it'll never see the trails again. Something about Catastrophic Failure..

Steel is a more forgiving ride, and therefore makes great hardtails. Hardly ever used in full-sussers because you need to maintain an exact path of travel for the moving parts, hence Aluminium is the natural choice. When it is used, you'll find the rockers are made from Aluminium. Rigid and light. A mate of mine rides a Rocky Mountain Vertex T.O. He loves it, but it's way to rigid for me, you feel the fingerprint of the tarmac.. :eek:

Old School versus New School.. Hmm.. It's a behemoth of a discussion.. I say let everyman have his choice. I've been checking out FagCogs.com and RetroBike.co.uk amongst others as I'm making a move back to the Steel HT. But as second bike, not a replacement.

I had an IF Deluxe [Reynolds 853/Columbus Nivachrome mix] I used to trounce around the Manly Dam, nearly broke the steed. So I sold it and bought an Intense. Two years on and I miss the IF..

I'm a great fan of Old School [but then I drive a 1965 Beetle] but Necessity is the Mother Of Invention, things move on because they need to. I'm not sure an old Deore II 18 speed indexed system could touch my XTR Rapid Rise 27 Speed set up; maybe it's not meant to. I dunno. One thing is for sure, I'll never buy a Purple Anodized Bolt again :D
 
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anthonyma

Likes Dirt
kingroon said:
Crack an Aluminium frame and it might make a nice ornament somewhere, but it'll never see the trails again. Something about Catastrophic Failure..
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure Grip might have an alternate view on that, check out his homepage ;)
 
Grip

Grip

Yeah, yeah... blah, blah.
You can repair Steel. Crack a joint? Weld it back up. Bend it? Replace the offending tube. Crack an Aluminium frame and it might make a nice ornament somewhere, but it'll never see the trails again. Something about Catastrophic Failure..
Click to expand...




I obviously need to advertise more... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: or were you just giving an example of "old-school" Vs "modern" (thinking, that is :D ) There's not much that can't be repaired nowadays, mate... and almost never a need to turn a frame into an ornament.

*sits and waits for some smartarse to post a pic of a frame that's been run over by a Mack truck*
 
P

peterd

Squid
Steel is always more comfortable

You really cannot compare apples and oranges. A hard tail in cromo will be better than alloy for comfort. mind you when you stack the alloy will com off better. My cromo fell over whilst propped against a log and got a big ding in the frame. On a dually you want a ridged frame because you don't want flex.
 
tu plang

tu plang

knob
magnesium on the other hand... a mate got cut off head-on this morning on a bikepath on his pinarello dogma with carbon record. top and down tubes cracked. the offending rider acknowledged it was his fault and said he'd pay for it... i think he'll retract that pretty soon. sorry to go OT just had to share his pain.
 
bradh

bradh

Likes Bikes and Dirt
tu plang said:
magnesium on the other hand... a mate got cut off head-on this morning on a bikepath on his pinarello dogma with carbon record. top and down tubes cracked. the offending rider acknowledged it was his fault and said he'd pay for it... i think he'll retract that pretty soon. sorry to go OT just had to share his pain.
Click to expand...
Ouch. Just reading that hurts.
 
S

sammydog

NSWMTB, Hunter MTB Association
Sam, don't be dissin' the Proflex. Oldschool rules, when you can find part.

Grip said:
*sits and waits for some smartarse to post a pic of a frame that's been run over by a Mack truck*
Click to expand...
I was going to say, did you see Adam Freemans GT after the Tassie National Round. Not a single usable part on that bike, although I can't confirm if it was a Mack Truck or other make that ran over the bike bag in the middle of the freeway.
 
Grip

Grip

Yeah, yeah... blah, blah.
sammydog.... I must have missed that bit of excitement, but you have to rtell us how the bike bag ended up on the freeway:eek:
 
tu plang

tu plang

knob
Grip said:
sammydog.... I must have missed that bit of excitement, but you have to rtell us how the bike bag ended up on the freeway:eek:
Click to expand...
sounds like it fell off the back of a truck and on that note, does anybody need any white goods? :p
 
scratchy

scratchy

Farkin Activist
Yup the missus sent me down to the pub to get one of those freezers that has an Icemaker in the door.

My like of CrMo is it's ride and it's simplicity. Sure a full susser will give you a great ride (as long as it's the correct full susser and properly serviced) but CrMo will give you a good ride, hour after hour, no matter what the conditions.

My old CrMo Kona Explosif was great Columbus Maximus (?) tubing. I have been know to ride and simply put the bike away afterwards. Nowadays with my full susser I seem to be forever doing maintainance on it. I'm thinking of rebuilding a CrMo for the daily bash around the Singletrack.
 
S

sammydog

NSWMTB, Hunter MTB Association
I wasn't there, so this is all second hand from freemo, although I have seen whats left of the bike.

Basically it was in trailer in a bike bag going between the airport and race track when it decided that racing was no longer its desired occupation. I'm pretty sure they realised the bike was missing when they got to the track, and then got a phone call.

The bike along with most of the other bits are hanging from the wall in drift. I thought I would be a smart arse and ask freemo if he neeeded the star nut, but even that was trashed. The frame just looks like someone took to it with a can opener, not real pretty.
 
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