AM RMAltitude Vorsprunged | L-Bicycled | DVO | Shimongrel'd

Zaf

Gearbox Frother
The Pike RCT3 is largely redundant modes, you just flip it open and leave it there. With a good spring rate, and bottom out tokens you can control the bottom out and small bump, then just add desired clicks of LSC to keep it firm and high under braking and rock it.
The HSC controls aren't needed, the Charger has that covered already. The NSD service helps, but it's incremental over what is offered out of the box.

You can potentially use the other settings, but it's a fork that is exemplary in its open mode and composed across all terrain if set up properly.

But it's the cost that wins out. And reliability now that they've been thrown through their paces since launch. I've yet to spend over $750 for a pair new, and although reviews indicate that the Fox 36 is a better fork, you can't find one for even close to that price, and I'm not sure it's ever going to be the amount of money you spend on it better than the Pike.
 

iUDEX_nCr

Likes Dirt
The Pike RCT3 is largely redundant modes, you just flip it open and leave it there. With a good spring rate, and bottom out tokens you can control the bottom out and small bump, then just add desired clicks of LSC to keep it firm and high under braking and rock it.
The HSC controls aren't needed, the Charger has that covered already. The NSD service helps, but it's incremental over what is offered out of the box.

You can potentially use the other settings, but it's a fork that is exemplary in its open mode and composed across all terrain if set up properly.

But it's the cost that wins out. And reliability now that they've been thrown through their paces since launch. I've yet to spend over $750 for a pair new, and although reviews indicate that the Fox 36 is a better fork, you can't find one for even close to that price, and I'm not sure it's ever going to be the amount of money you spend on it better than the Pike.
I will one day have to take a Pike out for a ride. But I agree at $750-$900 for a fresh pair of high end forks is amazing value.
The Manitou Mattoc Pro's are a great fork, my brother picked one up from here and it's a super solid fork... at under $700 albeit online.

I've just fitted my DVO diamonds, and at $1200, they're on the cheaper side of high end forks. Initial impressions are just wow. But again would love a set of Pikes just to try side by side... might go to by LBS and see if they have a set I could borrow.

Have you had much experience with the 36's?
 

NoFilter

Likes Dirt
I haven't heard about this rattle though.
The 'rattle' comes from a small amount of free play between the negative coil and the adjuster hat. It happened to me on my first Diamond and have been inside the fork for exploratory surgery. It is cured by adding an o ring to take up the space between the negative coil and the top out adjuster hat, it is simply a part missing from the production line not a design flaw - the Emerald suffers from it too in isolated cases.. If you have the rattle you will know it from the first ride, if not, don't worry about the "I heard about a rattle and it turned me off" bullshit you read on the internet :frusty: - It's a fabulous fork that is streets ahead of a Pike. Accept the weight and performance gains or don't, simple. You my friend have made the right choice. PM me if you need some setup tips...

The HSC controls aren't needed, the Charger has that covered already. The NSD service helps, but it's incremental over what is offered out of the box.

You can potentially use the other settings, but it's a fork that is exemplary in its open mode and composed across all terrain if set up properly.
So you've ridden the Diamond in comparison to the Pike? I've owned more pikes than most, run every setup imaginable and know them inside out. I truthfully thought it was life changing when it hit, no bullshit it was and it certainly upped the ante of what a trail/AM fork should do. Bloody great fork until you ride the DVO and get it set up. The Diamond has made an evolutionary step in the AM fork game whereas the Pike made a revolutionary step when it relaunched 3 years ago - but it's essentially unchanged since then. It doesn't sound like much but having that extra (hsc) compression adjuster makes the difference between a great fork (pike) and an exceptional fork (DVO) apparent. And then we can start a conversation about the coil adjustable negative if you like... Pike is good but it's old tech now, I still own one and I'm very happy to ride it but when I get back on the DVO it's game over for the Pike :third:

Admittedly I haven't ridden the new 36, but it would need to be very good to compete with the DVO.
 
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Zaf

Gearbox Frother
Nah, I've never ridden the DVO's so I default to your experience with them, I have no doubt's that they're a better fork. My comments are made more from a consumer point of view, it's a 90:10 rule, you're paying 90% more for the last 10% in performance.

The Pike did change the game, completely, and an NSD tuned Pike is an amazing piece of kit. Even a a Fast damper thrown in one is in punching weight (price wise with a good deal on the Pikes) of the DVO and would add the HSC circuit control you crave.
I have yet to crave an adjustable HSC for the Pike, the Charger has been an extremely consistent damper with how it controls the stroke, and the ease of adding and removing volume spacers to control bottom out and get pressures right to allow for suppleness and control are fantastic. The Pike simply behaves itself, then every once in a while I find myself pushing a little harder and I get a slight "tap" hearing it bottom out and fiddle with my bottom out tokens and pressures a little to get it back on form.

I want a set of DVO's, I lust for them and sure they're every bit as good as they seem, and backed up by the fact they seem to get good in country support. But I doubt I'll ever buy them, the Pike does it all already and at half the cost, which is a hard price point to contend with.
 

iUDEX_nCr

Likes Dirt
I think if you can ride happily with them and the forks don't get in the way of having fun, then there's no issue. I'm sure the Pike's are a solid fork. I have yet to ride them so I can't compare the two.
Pretty much you want to ride the cheapest fork that does the job. If the Pikes do it for you then I'm all for it. I was very very tempted to pick up a set, but I didn't for a couple silly reasons that no one needs to know about LOL.

It's not so much the HSC adjustment that I need... like you say Zaf, you can always get a aftermarket upgrade for them, but that does come at a cost. The issue is the factory designed "target operational weight" that the forks are made for... so it's always a risk for me.
The issue for ME, is that I'm only about 63kg ish... and unlike a coil, you can't just switch out an air spring unit. What I am afraid of is the factory tunes on most forks have a certain range which is usually around 70-90kg. Perhaps the Pikes have dialed their negative air unit to work perfectly across a wider range of riders... and this is probably the case since they are raved about. I've not seen a single bad review, only "not as good as" reviews. So I'm sure it's a solid fork. I just don't want to spend however much it is to find out it won't work for me.

I wouldn't go as far as NoFilter and say the DVO's are better, and I don't think there's anything wrong with 3 year old suspension tech. But personally, the OTT adjustment just eliminates my main issue and adds an extra dynamic in tuning - e.g. in my mind I'm thinking I could run more OTT and higher pressures, or less OTT and lower pressure. The adjustable HSC is something I found with my old 66's and 36 VAN's that made a big difference, and being able to dial it in for my riding style and terrain. It also means I might not need to get the forks custom tuned, and in this case have the shim stack adjusted. Another thing I liked about the DVO's is that like forks I've had in the past, you can also tune ramp up with oil levels (the Pike and 36 effectively do that with volume reducers).

At the end of the day, the weakest link is still me. But I enjoy wrenching and tweaking.

On another note, just went out for a spin... did about 20km before hitting the single tracks, feeling rather crappy due to lack of fitness and shoe fit issues, and still got plenty of PB's. The DVO is amazing... I'm seriously blown away. I had pretty low expectations which helped. I'm running 100psi, which is a little more than the base tune they recommend, and two clicks of rebound. LSC at 1 (I'm assuming this is fully open, but doesn't feel it- anyone know?), and HSC two clicks. OTT 1.5 turns.
In one word I'd say they are just very well behaved. They were pretty tame trails, just around the Yarra up near the Ivanhoe dirt jumps, and I'm only using about 75% travel. I'm probably running too much pressure, sag is about 25%. I didn't change the air pressure in the forks to ensure I could get my head around how the other adjustments on the fork behave. They ride really high, and are so stable. Very supple, carpark test is smooth as butter... I was afraid there wouldn't be enough feedback, but on the trails I'm finding my midstroke a little stiff like when I hit rooty sections... again could be too much pressure (I tried backing off my HSC to see if it's the damper, but not carrying enough speed to really notice the difference so I'm going to put it down to pressure). I'd like to know at setting 1, what the LSC is doing. Initial impressions is if the LSC isn't quite open, shim stack could be retuned to ramp up more, so I can run a little less air pressure with current compression adjustments... it's the top end of the stroke that usually needs work for me.

On another note, I also fitted a set of Minion SS's on the rear... and I'm kinda regretting going so 30mm internal width rear rim. It seems like both the HR II 2.3's and Minion SS 2.3's run quite square. Especially the SS, where the inside edge of the side knobs are level with the centre of the tread which in under weight is flat. No issues with the DHR II 2.3's on the front though. So really looking forwards to the WT range when it's available. Only Minion DHF, DHR II and HRII initially... for trail riding I'd like less rolling resistance, hence the issue comes back to rims too wide. I reckon a 28/29mm internal front and 25/26mm internal rear would be perfect.
But I haven't done any DH runs yet... the 30mm would be awesome with 2.5" ST rubbers (I'm hoping).

Zaf where did you get the Pikes at half the cost? New they're still around $900-$1000 online. The DVO Diamonds retail in Australia for $1250 - and yes the in country support was a factor in purchase.
I guess they can be picked up around $700 second hand.
 
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Zaf

Gearbox Frother
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/rockshox-pike-rct3-27.5-160mm-maxlelite15?skidn=RSX000Q-BK-S275INS15QR&ti=UExQIFJ1bGUgQmFzZWQ64oCcMTIgRGF5cyBvZiBEZWFsczogRGFpbHkgRGVhbOKAnToxOjE6 - for one.

I know that's a three day deal, but you get the idea. Postage through shipito be about another $100 express. That's on the money at $750.

hibike was where I was thinking, that's where I've bought all my forks from with single deals. Haven't checked prices in a while, guessing with more recent changes to our dollar, it might not be as cost effective. I actually didn't think about that, but they can still be got for under 600Euro at a cursory glance, with a deal running or a specials code the prices get better.

The DVO Diamonds are a gorgeous fork, and by all means, people will have different criteria for purchases. If you're happy with what you've got then you've spent your money well for whatever reason!!
 
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Rhys_

Likes Bikes and Dirt
The 'rattle' comes from a small amount of free play between the negative coil and the adjuster hat. It happened to me on my first Diamond and have been inside the fork for exploratory surgery. It is cured by adding an o ring to take up the space between the negative coil and the top out adjuster hat, it is simply a part missing from the production line not a design flaw - the Emerald suffers from it too in isolated cases.. If you have the rattle you will know it from the first ride, if not, don't worry about the "I heard about a rattle and it turned me off" bullshit you read on the internet :frusty: - It's a fabulous fork that is streets ahead of a Pike. Accept the weight and performance gains or don't, simple. You my friend have made the right choice. PM me if you need some setup tips...
So DVO stuff up, yet it's everyone else who is in the wrong for commenting about it on the interwebz? Yeah mate. It always sucks when you get a fork that isn't ready to go straight out of the box. Glad to hear there is a fix though and from all accounts it is a fantastic fork in other regards.

iUDEX_nCr - the Pike has an air negative spring that carries exactly the same pressure as the positive at top out, so you would not likely have any rider weight related issues with this fork (as long as you aren't so light you fall outside of the air pressure range). The only forks you could run into this issue are those with coil negative springs that do not have a preload adjustment, or dual air forks where you haven't set the neg pressure properly. At the end of the day it's all compensation for flaws of air forks, and really for the weight DVO could have chucked a Ti coil in and been done with it.
 

iUDEX_nCr

Likes Dirt
http://www.competitivecyclist.com/rockshox-pike-rct3-27.5-160mm-maxlelite15?skidn=RSX000Q-BK-S275INS15QR&ti=UExQIFJ1bGUgQmFzZWQ64oCcMTIgRGF5cyBvZiBEZWFsczogRGFpbHkgRGVhbOKAnToxOjE6 - for one.

I know that's a three day deal, but you get the idea. Postage through shipito be about another $100 express. That's on the money at $750.

hibike was where I was thinking, that's where I've bought all my forks from with single deals. Haven't checked prices in a while, guessing with more recent changes to our dollar, it might not be as cost effective. I actually didn't think about that, but they can still be got for under 600Euro at a cursory glance, with a deal running or a specials code the prices get better.

The DVO Diamonds are a gorgeous fork, and by all means, people will have different criteria for purchases. If you're happy with what you've got then you've spent your money well for whatever reason!!
Wow, yeah that's a great price indeed! If you know you'd be happy with them there would be no reason to go any other fork! the only other fork that I was considering was a set of Manitou Mattoc Pro's which can be had for around $670 delivered. We have a set in the family already.
Cheers, I'll have a look at those sites next time I'm looking for bits. I do buy online, but I do have a soft spot for LBS's. I emailed/called a few and the first one that was keen enough to get back to me I gave my money to.


So DVO stuff up, yet it's everyone else who is in the wrong for commenting about it on the interwebz? Yeah mate. It always sucks when you get a fork that isn't ready to go straight out of the box. Glad to hear there is a fix though and from all accounts it is a fantastic fork in other regards.

iUDEX_nCr - the Pike has an air negative spring that carries exactly the same pressure as the positive at top out, so you would not likely have any rider weight related issues with this fork (as long as you aren't so light you fall outside of the air pressure range). The only forks you could run into this issue are those with coil negative springs that do not have a preload adjustment, or dual air forks where you haven't set the neg pressure properly. At the end of the day it's all compensation for flaws of air forks, and really for the weight DVO could have chucked a Ti coil in and been done with it.
Yes I'm aware of the auto-equilizing air negative spring, but like you say there is a risk I fall outside of the air pressure range - which is my issue. We're in agreeance that is the flaw with air forks, or rather the fact that the manufacturers seems to go air forks & the chase for less weight. Really wish coil's weren't out of fashion. I'm not sure how much weight DVO would save going Ti... I'd imagine the coil negative is pretty small in size? At about 2kg it's not that bad, and they have said the majority of weight gain is for the cartridge like system/enclosure, which have the benefits of easy user access and servicing - a selling point for someone like myself who likes to tinker. 300g penalty compared to a Pike... so for them to warrant going a Ti spring it would have to bring it to the same weight or lower, otherwise at the end of the day they'd still be heavier (and even more expensive).

Again totally sold on the idea of the Pikes, but without having a set to play with I've gone the slightly more expensive but also safer option with the DVO. With regard to the noisy fork issue- I saw a video on youtube where you can hear it clearly in the top 2cm? cycled by hand. I'm not experiencing this, but I am finding I hear a lose clonking on rides which could be it. Bit annoying only time will tell whether it drives me mad or I just get used to it, and although it does seem like an easy fix, I feel like it's something that should be taken care of at the manufacturing/assembly level.
 

Rhys_

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Oh yeah I meant DVO making it a proper coil (ti) sprung fork! It appears as if the real weight is around 2.14kg, so buyers are already more likely to be performance rather than weight orientated. I wonder what it would have weighed with a Ti coil onboard. 2.3kg? Marzocchi claim 2.15kg for the 350 NCR Ti.
 

iUDEX_nCr

Likes Dirt
Oh yeah I meant DVO making it a proper coil (ti) sprung fork! It appears as if the real weight is around 2.14kg, so buyers are already more likely to be performance rather than weight orientated. I wonder what it would have weighed with a Ti coil onboard. 2.3kg? Marzocchi claim 2.15kg for the 350 NCR Ti.
Oh! yes interesting question...
I considered teh 350 NCR Ti, but due to potential lack of support... and from my experience expensive parts I'm staying away. Every Marzocchi fork I've owned I've loved, but they all had issues.
 

iUDEX_nCr

Likes Dirt
Get Chops to sell them for you I reckon you could get at least $1000 lol
haven't seen him on here much lately...

quick bike update. The old school Flite Ti's nose finally wore through from me standing over the top tube after 12 years... after testing out some trial saddles (thanks The Ride Cycles!) I decided to give the updated Selle Italia Flite a go. Love it! at first I thought the "anti-friction" was a marketing fad since it's just leather, but after riding it I realised it's in the design. The saddle very quickly narrows, which is great in two ways, firstly no more chaffing and wearing my shorts out, and secondly I use my inner thighs in turns so now I can rotate my hips more! very happy.

Been out for a few spins since fitting the Diamonds, and just wow! I usually run a stiffer fork, and since I'm not that fit/strong I'm finding a more compliant setup actually means I'm going much faster.
Also, it's great when I'm on assignments since the LSC effectively dictates ride height...

quick pic of the bike on a job... yes it gets used as transport when I work, need to talk to my accountant on whether I can write part of it off.

 
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teK--

Eats Squid
Lookin great would be a nice tax deduction if possible!

What I find is if you run stiff suspension you can sometimes go faster if you push over obstacles rather than through them. That way the bike gets hung up less. Depends on rising style and terrain.

haven't seen him on here much lately...

quick bike update. The old school Flite Ti's nose finally wore through from me standing over the top tube after 12 years... after testing out some trial saddles (thanks The Ride Cycles!) I decided to give the updated Selle Italia Flite a go. Love it! at first I thought the "anti-friction" was a marketing fad since it's just leather, but after riding it I realised it's in the design. The saddle very quickly narrows, which is great in two ways, firstly no more chaffing and wearing my shorts out, and secondly I use my inner thighs in turns so now I can rotate my hips more! very happy.

Been out for a few spins since fitting the Diamonds, and just wow! I usually run a stiffer fork, and since I'm not that fit/strong I'm finding a more compliant setup actually means I'm going much faster.
Also, it's great when I'm on assignments since the LSC effectively dictates ride height...

quick pic of the bike on a job... yes it gets used as transport when I work, need to talk to my accountant on whether I can write part of it off.

 

iUDEX_nCr

Likes Dirt
Lookin great would be a nice tax deduction if possible!

What I find is if you run stiff suspension you can sometimes go faster if you push over obstacles rather than through them. That way the bike gets hung up less. Depends on rising style and terrain.
Yes, I agree about the stiffer suspension... I think it's partly because of the lack of fitness, and I'm relearning how to pump.

Looks great!
Looks even better with the DVO's!
Cheers! I was very tempted to go the green DVO's though.
Just finding I'm losing traction on turns up front, that were fine with the 34's, so just need to work out whether it's a suspension setup issue or just the fact that I've had to adjust my riding style for the 34's.

I've been slowly rebuilding the frackenbike... and picked up a couple sets of old XTR m980/m985 cranks for a bargain price and met Norm and Jess Douglass (although I didn't actually know who they were until now)...
Actually I thought I was picking up two sets of M980's... one was unused so I figured I'd gift it to my brother's Rune, although turned out to be M985's so he's running a 28t ring LOL.

Going up to Buller shortly after Christmas, to ride some of the advertised "flow" trails- I'm hoping shuttled. Difficulty will depend on the other riders... but I'll bring my fullface in case I work out that I can still descend. But I'm hoping to have an opportunity, and head space, to ride international again- it'll be the first time since I injured my neck coming off the wall ride just before being spat out onto the fire road a few years back. Looking at youtube videos the wall doesn't go as high, and looks more like a man made berm now also the lead in has ramps. Either way it'll be good to just get out and ride :)
 

T.3

Likes Dirt
Ive got a good mate with the same bike as you. He is looking at the DVO's as well. He wants the green, for my money the black is the go but I dont think you'd be off either way.
 

teK--

Eats Squid
Cheers! I was very tempted to go the green DVO's though.
Just finding I'm losing traction on turns up front, that were fine with the 34's, so just need to work out whether it's a suspension setup issue or just the fact that I've had to adjust my riding style for the 34's.

Not sure if DVO have a tuning guide for their fork, but I find the guide that cane creek gives for the bracketing tuning process is very simple to understand.

very probable that the settings on your 34 aren't matched to your current dvo settings.
 
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