Rotorburn Brake Banter

[Tubeless]

I've been riding with a pair of old (2digit style) Hayes nine brakes 180 / 160 discs.
They've been just ok for the trails I usually ride, however, a few days ago I rode at a bike park and realised they're beginning to hold me back - metaphorically speaking. :twitch:

So on here I jumped and began searching the world of brakes.
I decided to go through the last 20pages(back to Feb 2015) of Rotorburn 'My Rides' threads and see what the brakes of choice have been in the last two years.

Brakes %/250 users

SHIMANO
M785 XT----------19%
M820 Saint-----10.5%
M640 Zee----------7%
M675 SLX----------6%
M8000-------------5%
M9020 XTR--------5%
M615 Deore-------3%
M9000 XTR------0.5%
M505------------0.5%
M447------------0.5%

SRAM
XO-----------------7%
Guide RSC--------5%
Guide R-----------5%
Guide RS---------3%
Ultimate----------1%
DB5---------------1%

AVID
Elixir--------------6%
Elixir R------------2%
XX----------------1%
Elixir 7------------1%
Elixir CR----------1%

FORMULA
RO--------------0.5%
RX--------------0.5%
R1--------------0.5%
K18-------------0.5%
TS--------------0.5%
T1--------------0.5%

HOPE
X2----------------2%
M4----------------2%
E4----------------1%
V4--------------0.5%

MAGURA---------1%

HAYES-----------1%


And rotor sizes for shizzles and giggles.

180 / 160--------29%
180 / 180--------24%
203 / 180--------21%
203 / 203--------14%
160 / 160---------7%
203 / 160---------5%

*please note, the above is only as accurate as the threads I was pulling the info from. So, for example Avid Elixir with 6% of users could potentially be spread across Elixirs 1, 3, 5 etc but they weren't specified otherwise.*

So, its easy to see which brakes are the most common and the least common.
I'm interested to hear why Shimano have close to 60% of the market share, Sram/Avid together make up 30% and then the rest are about 10%...

What makes the M785 XTs the most common (so good?)?
Why is there such a big split between Shimano and Sram?
Who has swapped between different brands and why?
and, do you use the same brake over all your riding disciplines/bikes?

I guess the above results surprised me a little. I was expecting more brands and less models that I could sift through more easily.
Is it people have their favourites?
Is it availability?
Or, reliability?
Is it price and/or brake feel?
or is it all just about the looks, the sexiest brakes win! :Banane20:

 

[Minlak]

changed my mind

 

[pink poodle]

changed my mind

The bait...too strong.

The XT is excellent value for money. For ~$100/end you can't find a better brake. You can save a few bucks and get similar rest from the slx, but the XT reservoir cap is significantly series. What is good about XT
- Bleeding is piss easy (same for most shimano).
- Mineral oil is the shit = less bleeding and isn't corrosive.
- reach adjutant works nicely. Pad contact...I don't think it works. I've had a lot of other brands where it was an excellent feature.
- Weight is low.
- price...so low.

So if you can find them...buy them. Otherwise save some coin and buy the slx brakes.

 

[Daisy]

Wow

You seem to have way too much time on your hands dude ;-)
Are you bed-ridden or something......

XT & SLX are pretty much the same.......google it.
I've read so much negative about Avid & so much positive about Shimano.
I have Shimano & love it. Would highly recommend.
Cheers, Daisy

 

[MARKL]

Just did a survey of my garage (way too much effort, seriously you must have too much time on your hands):

Shimano Saint

Shimano SLX (was running Formula but bike is for sale so back to SLX)

Hope Mono Mini Pro

Hope V4

Formula Oro Bianco

Formula R1

Avid V-brakes

 

[Boom King]

One answer to all of your questions....... moorey.

 

[moorey]

One answer to all of your questions....... moorey.

PFFT. No ALL of those xt's are mine.

 

[Martin.au]

Ok, here goes.

Old hardtail - swapped from Shimano Deore M525s to a hybrid M525 Lever & M755 caliper (cause I could). I didn't use the XT levers because they had 90º banjos which I didn't like and my m525 levers were pretty nice.

Old dual suspension - swapped from Avid Juicy 7's to some Shimano M785s (thanks Rotorburn). Main reason was because the Juicys were quite vocal on that bike. Also much prefer dealing with mineral oil brakes.

 

[Ideate]

[video=youtube_share;oYBxwzgOm2I]https://youtu.be/oYBxwzgOm2I[/video]

 

[wkkie]

I use Shimano because they just work and they're easy to work on, on the rare times that you have to change hoses or levers. I've only had to bleed a set once out of the 4 sets I've had in the last 10ish years. Much less fuss than dot fluid.

At the moment I'm running old Saint M800 (didn't even make the list!) with Straitline levers on the dually and XT M8000 on the hardtail.

The difference between the 2 sets is pretty significant! The Saints just won't die so I've had no need to replace them.... Also running 8 inch rotors front and rear on both bikes.

 

[Alo661]

Guides > XT M785 > XT M8000.

Only issue with Guides is how big the lever body is, have to run spacers under your stem otherwise you'll cope a lever blade into your top tube, not a great thing to happen to a carbon bike :/

 

[Zaf]

Guides > XT M785 > XT M8000.

Only issue with Guides is how big the lever body is, have to run spacers under your stem otherwise you'll cope a lever blade into your top tube, not a great thing to happen to a carbon bike :/

You can just tilt them up a little as well, or buy a new Trek!


The Guide RSC is one of the best brakes I've ever used from a modulation perspective, and thus far I've had no maintenance issues with them. That said, everyone I know who has used them has had a sticky lever issue (the brake squeezes in then doesn't return), and I'm holding onto the Saint M820 brakes I took off my Yeti in case this happens. I've been told the issue has been resolved in later editions, but I'm not sure when my brakes are dated as they came OEM.

Which is largely the plus Shimano has, barring a few "pumping up" issues in the lever of their newer brakes ( again, which I believe have been resolved) they are fit and forget hardware, and when it comes to brakes, nobody wants to be thinking about them.
Price is the next factor, and they've got the market beat in that section as well, as well as being notoriously easy to work with in case of maintenance, largely from simply not dealing with dot fluid.

The trickle down is also impressive on Shimano kit. As has been mentioned, you get identical functionality with a different decal or paint job, and maybe a minor weight increase, they don't make you pay for features other than bragging rights in bling factor, the right to adopt the technology earlier and shots of static weights.

 

[link1896]

My understanding is when the branding jumped from Avid to SRAM, they replaced all of the engineering team, who kept the AVID callipers and designed new levers.

They had a good chance, but fucked up the design of the Pistons in the levers, causing them to not return due to being too tight of a fit, and their plastic isn't too thermally stable, the pistons need a little of their diameter removed so they are not a friction fit in the bore. Have also heard using dot safe grease has resolved the issue. Googling the piston kit part numbers from the 2016 SRAM catalog doesn't suggest the piston kits are a redesign.

Piston rubbing in lever housing

 

[jarrod839]

Ive used both older saints and zees. I rated the saints but unfortunately i had faulty zees which shimano refused to warranty. So i no longer use shimano products.

Have had avid codes and they were just awesome and never let me down.

Currently got guide rsc's and they were awesome but now they are slowly shitting themselfs and are just getting me by. The guide ultimates have apparently fixed the issues with the other models.

Currently renovating the house at the moment but as soon as thats finished will be pulling the trigger on some hope v4's.

 

[shmity]

I've got M785 brakes on my trail bike and have no issues with their performance, bleeding is easy as per usual for shimano brakes. Had old M755 XT 4 piston brakes on the DH for a long long time, needed new levers so bought some new saint calipers and levers front and rear. Could never get a consistant bleed with them no matter what I did, they gave me inconsistent lever feel and throw and the power was all over the shop. Manged to swap out a stanchion/dropout on my dorados for one that would accept an adapter for IS brake mounts and I couldn't get the old XT calipers back on fast enough, they work superbly with the new generation of levers and the power and consistency hasn't been an issue again. If the saints were more consistent I would be all over them, the power was exceptional but they just were unreliable.

I feel like there must be a small notch in the machining of the caliper that traps a small amount of air, but no matter what orientation i had the caliper in when bleeding i could never rid myself of the problem.

 

[MARKL]

Which is largely the plus Shimano has, barring a few "pumping up" issues in the lever of their newer brakes ( again, which I believe have been resolved) they are fit and forget hardware....

Sorry but that is just Shimano fanboy BS. No question Shimano brakes are very good but to pretend that is the only problem they have had is kidding yourself. We had the issue a couple of years ago with calliper end fittings weeping, the free stroke adjustment on my Saint's continues to do less than nothing etc. None of these issues have been the end of the world but the difference in reaction between Shimano brake problems and issues with Avid is laughable. If there is an issue with Shimano, there is always an excuse, an issue with Avid/SRAM and it is automatically the end of the world and 'all Avid brakes are like that'. Truth is I know people that have had great long term experience with Avid, shit with Shimano and visa versa.

As for bleeding Hope is the easiest by far...IMO

 

[Zaf]

Sorry but that is just Shimano fanboy BS. No question Shimano brakes are very good but to pretend that is the only problem they have had is kidding yourself. We had the issue a couple of years ago with calliper end fittings weeping, the free stroke adjustment on my Saint's continues to do less than nothing etc. None of these issues have been the end of the world but the difference in reaction between Shimano brake problems and issues with Avid is laughable. If there is an issue with Shimano, there is always an excuse, an issue with Avid/SRAM and it is automatically the end of the world and 'all Avid brakes are like that'. Truth is I know people that have had great long term experience with Avid, shit with Shimano and visa versa.

As for bleeding Hope is the easiest by far...IMO

Never bled a Hope so I "shouldnt" comment; but seeing that you can get a very decent bleed on a Shimano brake simply undoing a single 3mm hex and jamming the bleed bottle nozzle in whilst pumping the lever, I'd be amazed at how they can make that easier...and have you handle DOT fluid at the same time.

If you install the fittings correctly, they don't weep. That goes for any brake.

 

[MARKL]

Never bled a Hope so I "shouldnt" comment; but seeing that you can get a very decent bleed on a Shimano brake simply undoing a single 3mm hex and jamming the bleed bottle nozzle in whilst pumping the lever, I'd be amazed at how they can make that easier...and have you handle DOT fluid at the same time.

If you install the fittings correctly, they don't weep. That goes for any brake.

Your right you probably shouldn't :hand: do basically the same thing on Hope* and you get a perfect bleed...every time.

* Same process but you lock off the bleed screw between pumps, same as doing a car.

If you install the fittings correctly, they don't weep. That goes for any brake.

And that is a perfect example of the fan boi bs I was talking about. The problem that occurred a couple of years back was the Shimano factory installed fittings, a bunch of people had the same issue...I guess they must all be shit if Shimano can't get the fittings right hey?

 

[bowtajzane]

i agree with Mark,both have problems, both have both have good points,buy the ones you like/can afford, and go enjoy riding your bike.........

 

[jarrod839]

i agree with Mark,both have problems, both have both have good points,buy the ones you like/can afford, and go enjoy riding your bike.........

I agree also as everyone is going to get a differant experience with different brands. Shimano do make good products and i had a shit experience so now i won't use shimano same with maxxis tyres i find them shit and know only use schwable.