School me on computers and HRMs!

[brisneyland]

So I'm delving into new territory for me. I'm not really interested in counting carbs, measuring and quantifying my 'workouts' or shaving my legs, but I need to train for a multi day epic next year.

Can someone give me the ins and outs of HRMs? Numbers and data are nice and all but does measuring all this crap *actually* result in better fitness?

Also, what's the deal with GPS enabled conmputers? I can't see what value it really adds.

 

[driftking]

Ill address GPS first.

It allows you to track your route, many also have an elevation measure so you can track and cross check what your heart rate, cadence and your speed is, this allows you to see where you are lacking and find out where your body is working harder, necessary? No but you can see how this has benefits allowing you to analyze your entire ride and tailor it a little more and pin point it.

If all you know is distance, time and heart rate, all this tells you is you did 50km at a different average heart rate and a different pace every ride. But it doesn't tell you why. This is where having the gps helps, you can say oh my heart rate was higher due to the hills, or it took longer due to the uphill elevation. It really allows you to get into what happening, you can tell if you improved because of fitness or because of route conditions.

Do they improve performance?

If you use them right yes. Just wearing it wont do much if your not training to certain specifics.

They are a tool to give you measures but you need to know what measures you want to see. What they allow you do to is know what heart rate zone you are training in for specific adaptions. They tell you your cadence so you can work on what suits you best and you can improve your ability to control cadence to a optimal level.

You can see where you are hitting the walls too, while you cannot know the power you can see the speed so if on a at home training where the route is obviously constant, you will eventually see either your heart rate rise to maintain speed or your speed drop to maintain heart rate, this is where you're fatiguing. So this is a good measure and you can actually see after training that eventually you will be able to maintain heart rate and speed for longer before fatigue signs kick in.

Overall the best measure is going to be power and threshold but unless you have the money for a power meter a heart rate monitor is a very good tool. using a HRM with a power meter is the ultimate combination.

Conclusion, they are invaluable tools for training and been able to track and be specific with your workouts. Even on the stationary bike they are great, shows heart rate, shows cadence, allows you to induce the adaptions you want by letting you measure and track how you are training.

 

[brisneyland]

Thanks mate. I had a long reply typed out the other night but the stupid internet here dropped out and I lost it. I don't really need to track my route and I already track elevation on my watch. Admittedly only an overall ascent/descent though.

How does one interpret cadence data? I'm going to train on my single speed for a few months anyway, not sure what I can tell from that.

Nonetheless I think I'll pick up a Suunto Ambit 2 and join the ranks of the heart rate counting, Strava quoting, gel smashing muppets.

 

[driftking]

Thanks mate. I had a long reply typed out the other night but the stupid internet here dropped out and I lost it. I don't really need to track my route and I already track elevation on my watch. Admittedly only an overall ascent/descent though.

How does one interpret cadence data? I'm going to train on my single speed for a few months anyway, not sure what I can tell from that.

Nonetheless I think I'll pick up a Suunto Ambit 2 and join the ranks of the heart rate counting, Strava quoting, gel smashing muppets.

For me I use it to maintain a steady cadence (generally a cadence of 90rpm is the best power for energy spot). You can use it for a measure of sprints. Given you don't have a power meter your next bet is your cadence on sprint training. Therefore aiming for a certain cadence durin the sprint you can see when you drop off as your speed decreases. (Power really is the best here but cadence is better than nothing)

You can use speed as a measure of fatigue but that's not always reliable due to terrain, however cadence is constant so you can use cadence to see when you are fatiguing. Whether you are doing 10km or 59km cadence will just monitor how many times your cranking the pedals over.
On that point cadence you may find your pedalling at a cadence of 70 or 110 during normal riding which would be less than ideal therefore cadence can make you more attentive to gears and may help you choose the right gear more often.

Personally I much prefer cadence over speed.
You can find your average speed by dividing the distance by the time.
With cadence you can look and see that where a month ago you were doing 90rpm in 4th gear you are now doing 90 in 5th. Or you see your doing 100rpm in 4th now and you should try bump up to 5th gear.

For me I find it very useful.

Its just another tool to help everything come together.

 

[Tobey Bostock]

Garmin Edge 510 Bundle. Does everything you need.

 

[brisneyland]

Yeah I've been looking at that, but the Suunto has a few advantages for me. I don't need all that other fluff with the Garmin and not a fan of a colour touchscreen for use in the desert.

It turns out you can make your own apps for the Suunto - I think I can make something that will indicate how much of a lead I have (in minutes) on the sweep vehicle. Very handy.

And I can use it kayaking/kitesurfing/hiking etc.

And, I can pay for it with frequent flyer points.

 

[carpetrunner]

HRM data and stuff

Hi Brisneyland,

Power measurement and HRM together are by far the best option for measuring and improving fitness, but... you really need to be a roadie to make the most of it. I've been using a powertap on my roadie for a few months and seeing the theory, practice and results meet up has been amazing.

Maybe you need to be a scientist/engineer type to get into the reams of data - but for me it has been worthwhile.

On the mountie I use a HRM - knowing my HR at critical power thresholds from the roadie - I have a good idea where I am from only HR on the mountie.

A few years back I used a Suuto HRM - it was excellent and much more accurate at counting calories than the Garmin, as Suuto uses different burn rates for different HR. The great thing about accurate calorie counting is that you can use calories per minute (or kJ/min) as a measure of effort. For example, for me 50kJ/min is a reasonable workout, 60kJ/min is very hard and 70kJ/min is an extreme workout. Much more useful than using perceived effort as a training tool. As I have loads of data I can get a good estimate of intensity and calculate Training Stress Score.

There are a few useful books out there, have a look for Joe Friel, like;
http://zombiecyclist.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/total-heart-rate-training-by-joe-friel.html

good luck!

- carpetrunner

 

[brisneyland]

Two rides in with my Suunto.

HR data is interesting... my max HR according to various mathematical estimates is wrong. One shouldn't be able to sustain 103% of your max HR for several minutes at a time!

GPS distance is quite different to the calibrated computer on my bike, and my GFs bike. It underestimates by about 15%.

I just bought "The Time Crunched Cyclist" so we'll see what he's got to say.

BTW, carpetrunner, the Suunto gives me "Peak Training Effect" which I gather is similar to Training Stress Score but without a power meter. It's based (I think) on HR, HR variability and resp rate. It looks like a pretty good tool to shape my training sessions.

The ultimate goal is a multi-day epic next year. 10 months to train!

 

[FatMuz]

I also have a Suunto (Ambit 2 Sapphire)... it's a brilliant bit of kit. Currently selling my Garmin Edge 800 on the fleabay as I no longer have any use for it.
My kms measured have been accurate compared to mates GPS units but the heart rate readings I was getting are much higher than actual heart rate.
Really like the Suunto Movescount website too.

Cheers
FatMuz

 

[brisneyland]

Cheers Muz,
Yeah I'm loving the Suunto. It's actually my third - have a Core and Observer as well.

The only issue is that you can only get three bits of info on one screen but that's to be expected. I need a handlebar mount for it.

I wonder if GPS distance is calculated only on horizontal distance and not the up and down component? I'm going to need a speed/cadence sensor I think so it will be interesting to see how they compare.

Accurate distance is important to me - I want to be able to see how far ahead of the sweep wagon I am, which moves at 12km/hr. I've written a little app that can calculate this but it's not much use if the distances are wrong.

So, I've done two rides in the last two days with PTE (Peak Training Effect) of 4.7 and 3.4. I think today I'll do a nice easy spin on some flat ground and aim for PTE 1-2. And then step it up with a run tomorrow and aim for PTE 5.

(BTW - new fatbike build commencing very soon! )