MARKL
Eats Squid
I read your statement, Shimano press releases, journo storeys and at the end of the day my statement stands.
No improvement over XD and no way Shimano were ever going to adopt a SRAM hub standard.
Shimano Loosen Microspline License Rules
- Thread starter Shredden
- Start date
No improvement over XD and no way Shimano were ever going to adopt a SRAM hub standard.
Calvin27
Eats Squid
I think he meant XD is open standard but the cassette is not. So unless sram says shimano can use it to make cassettes shimano just concedes that they stop making casettes?
I don't like microspline either. But shimano didn't really have a choice. Me, I'll be on 10/11 speed for a while yet.
bear the bear
Is a real bear
Correct, the freehub is an open standard, but the one-piece cassette is protected by patent so Shimano would have had to design and manufactured a new cassette had they adopted the XD standard.
I am not arguing Microspline is better or worse than the XD design, rather that there were a number of factors which pushed Shimano in the direction they took.
Calvin27
Eats Squid
Personally I would have liked to see how this new spline actually addresses some of the common issues with current freehubs. That is, does the smaller diameter load the splines more (is that why there are more?)? Does the smaller design mean that you can make it all steel and not suffer as much weight penalty? Does this fix chewed up freehub splines? Bearing life?
Plankosaurus
Spongeplank Dalepantski
Yeah, this is where I'm at.
Sram got in early on a new standard and said "you can make your hubs fit our cassettes, but you can't make your cassettes fit our hubs" - total dick move, regardless of whether it's a decent standard or not. I mean how long were they making cassettes to fit someone else's standard?
Shimano deserve a little credit for holding onto backwards compatibility as long as they did. No bullshit new drivers for Shimano users for a good few years, kudos to them. I agree that XD is superior, but then it's also some 20 years newer, you'd hope they'd be able to come up with something a little better given that amount of time.
But now Shimano are playing the same stupid games
. "Only some people can make our drivers" - dubya-tee-eff Shimano?! You had the moral high ground, you had a solid market share, and you had the opportunity to turn XD into a niche market by letting every man and his dog run your new standard. Then you farked it all up with greed that'll probably turn microspline into the betamax of bike standards.If box or sunrace or e13 step up and make a completely open system, THAT'S where my money goes. In the meantime, I'll just stick with everyone's obsolete 10/11sp setups
Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk
Calvin27
Eats Squid
Yep, I have a feeling all this does is make the core of the users stick to 10/11sp.If box or sunrace or e13 step up and make a completely open system, THAT'S where my money goes. In the meantime, I'll just stick with everyone's obsolete 10/11sp setups
bear the bear
Is a real bear
From memory there are 18 splines, so in theory more contact patch.
I've only had mine 6 weeks, so don't need to remove the cassette yet and can't answer on the chewing of the freehub body.
Calvin27
Eats Squid
Yep I was thinking the smaller diameter means stresses are greater. Hence why they probably went with more splines despite it probably costing more to make.
Me three. I just don’t see any tangible benefit of going to 12 speed as I didn’t have a problem with the range of gears at 10 speed 42t or with the way they shift.
slider_phil
Likes Bikes and Dirt
They saw that people ate up SRAMs shit no matter how many parts where proprietary just so they could say they had the biggest range or most gears. 28.99mm BB standard? WTF SRAM
MARKL
Eats Squid
I totally agree that hubs, cassettes etc should be totally open standards. How can it be a 'standard' if it isn't open? In my view once you have to licence it, it becomes a proprietary system and should be advertised as such 'look we changed something you will never notice for 3% improved wank factor and no other parts will ever fit and you are stuck buying our shit until you dump this bike or we forget to support the standard in three weeks time'.Yeah, this is where I'm at.
Sram got in early on a new standard and said "you can make your hubs fit our cassettes, but you can't make your cassettes fit our hubs" - total dick move....
But now Shimano are playing the same stupid games. "Only some people can make our drivers" - dubya-tee-eff Shimano?! You had the moral high ground, you had a solid market share, and you had the opportunity to turn XD into a niche market by letting every man and his dog run your new standard. Then you farked it all up with greed that'll probably turn microspline into the betamax of bike standards.
Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk
However this did inspire me to look at what non-SRAM XD cassettes are out there, seems there are a few - KCNC, e*thirteen, Leonardi (?), SEQlite (??), SunRace, Garbaruk (???), Ingrid (????) link to - SingleTrackWorld
Now granted that I have never heard of half of these brands and availability is limited for some but it does appear that it is possible to a) make an aftermarket XD cassette, and b) you can play with the way you the cassette so it doesn't have to be exactly the same as SRAM.
At the end of the day Shimano and SRAM should have gotten together and made this work as one standard (and we still don't need microspline). Dick move by both