shimano XT brakes, alternative levers DH, changing bite point

[noddy]

Righto, so I bought new XT levers for my old saint calipers, when they work they are powerful however the bite point seems to constantly change. I have bleed and re-bled them, changed the bite point adjusters, instructions to a T and various other methods which work on any other brake. Not this one though. I've always been a shimano fanboy and these levers are the first thing shimano I have had an issue with. Has anyone else had issues with changing lever 'feel'.

I've used old SLX levers which are fine so no issue with calipers or lines, I even threw a tektro lever on the front which was suprisingly good, I would run those exept I don't have a pair.

I'm considering ditching the servo wave system (the new servo wave system feels far more notchy than the old system) and trying deore level levers if I cant get the XTs working properly. they have the same rough pivot point (the reason I'm changing from old saint levers in the first place) and final leverage ratio, I don't suppose many people have much to say about them though.... thoughts.

 

[moorey]

Side note...Tektro aren't mineral oil, are they? You could be either shagging your caliper with dot fluid, or your lever with mineral.

Ive been mixing and matching shimano brake stuff for years, saint 810 levers on 800 calipers, 785 levers on 775 calipers, 775 levers on deore 595 calipers. The only issue I've ever had was what I can only put down to 9yo hoses on the 800's, they were always spongy when I changed levers recently and rebleed. Changed hoses and awesome again.
Though you're clearly not a noob, try getting lbs to bleed them, they are different to everything else.

Is is it both or just one doing this?

 

[ChopSticks]

Sort of in the same boat

going to attach XTR m988 levers to m820 callipers
but there's reports of people experiencing problems like you....

One reason could be the levers not pushing enough oil into the 4 pot callipers


check pm

 

[adaib]

Have you tried advancing the pistons so the're equally close (F&R) and the clearance is minimal? Don't think it would do anything for the bite point fluctuations, however it might make them not matter as you'll get good brake feel early in the stroke.

 

[moorey]

Have you tried advancing the pistons so the're equally close (F&R) and the clearance is minimal? Don't think it would do anything for the bite point fluctuations, however it might make them not matter as you'll get good brake feel early in the stroke.

Pistons advance themselves in anyway, with a few squeezes of lever. Set them too close initially and you'll get scrubbing.

 

[cameron_15]

You're in for an uphill battle here my friend. The best and most painless solution is to get Avid Code's.

 

[No Skid Marks]

Or Formulas.
You can pressurize the calipers by getting someone to do up the nut while you push on the syringe, but I think the XT reservoir mightn't be quite as large as the Saint.
You could also try the newer high flow hoses. Or another brand lever/reservoir that uses mineral oil. I think Tectro do.

 

[moorey]

You're in for an uphill battle here my friend. The best and most painless solution is to get Avid Code's.

...said nobody ever :thumb:

 

[wombat]

It's a long shot, but there isn't a chance you could have accidentally thrown in one of the old brass colour barbs is there?

 

[dunndog]

Cool. I've just ordered new xt levers and saint hoses to attach to my m810 calipers.. Starting to wonder whether I should have? I have been told by a few that it is a good system, but I hear from others it has flaws.. Is it just hit or miss or just no good? M820's are like $170 per end on crc and torp7 at the moment..
OP, good luck and let us know what the outcome is!

 

[marc.r]

Sort of in the same boat

going to attach XTR m988 levers to m820 callipers
but there's reports of people experiencing problems like you....

One reason could be the levers not pushing enough oil into the 4 pot callipers


check pm

pretty sure jared graves was running xtr leavers with saint calipers for the whole EWS. must be possible to have it working well If he has chosen it over any other shimano solution...

 

[No Skid Marks]

...said nobody ever :thumb:

The new ones are proving pretty good. You'd be safe to get New gen Avid Codes. I'd prefer lighter probably equally powerful Formulas that have been ridiculously reliable for me.
I have a good mate that went from XT levers on old Saint calipers to new Saint, to new Codes and he by far prefers the new Codes, and he does a shit load of DH.

 

[dunndog]

The new ones are proving pretty good. You'd be safe to get New gen Avid Codes. I'd prefer lighter probably equally powerful Formulas that have been ridiculously reliable for me.
I have a good mate that went from XT levers on old Saint calipers to new Saint, to new Codes and he by far prefers the new Codes, and he does a shit load of DH.

do you know what his experience with the xt levers/old saint was?

 

[noddy]

It's a long shot, but there isn't a chance you could have accidentally thrown in one of the old brass colour barbs is there?

Is there a difference?
I used the generic ones, I have a whole bunch of 'em, there are no leaks in the system but maybe you're onto somthing.
My thoughts are that if the hole is smaller on the old style ones then it might be restrictive enough to make the levers pump up after sudden release of brakes.... i'll look into it, thanks.

Update:::: BINGBING BING BING, the orifice is way bigger on the new metal looking barbs. i think my problem is solved and the problem was me, shortcutting and just bunging the old lines (with brass barb) to the new levers... i'll re-do it tomorrow to confirm.

 

[No Skid Marks]

do you know what his experience with the xt levers/old saint was?

XT lever pumped up on long DH runs I think. Not enough resevour room was the guess. I think that was it mainly. The newer Saints were very unreliable for him.

Is there a difference?

New high flow ones have bigger hole.

 

[wombat]

Update:::: BINGBING BING BING, the orifice is way bigger on the new metal looking barbs. i think my problem is solved and the problem was me, shortcutting and just bunging the old lines (with brass barb) to the new levers... i'll re-do it tomorrow to confirm.

Yeah, I've seen some weird feeling brakes because of this mismatch. Admittedly not the setup you're running, but I'd say it's definitely worth trying the silver barbs.

 

[dunndog]

So are you guys talking about the m820 barbs being silver and with larger internal diameter? I've got new 820 lines on the way along with my xt levers, hopefully this is a good thing. I assume barbs olives etc come with the lines? Never bought just new lines before..

 

[ChopSticks]

So are you guys talking about the m820 barbs being silver and with larger internal diameter? I've got new 820 lines on the way along with my xt levers, hopefully this is a good thing. I assume barbs olives etc come with the lines? Never bought just new lines before..

what callipers are you attaching to the XT lever/SM-BH90-SBLS hose?

 

[dunndog]

what callipers are you attaching to the XT lever/SM-BH90-SBLS hose?

M810 calipers ..

EDIT Just got brake lines in the mail, and yes they do have the silver barbs, and yes they are substantially bigger internal diameter. about 5 cm! Better head to super cheap auto for an industrial size tin of fluid!

 

[wombat]

M810 calipers ..

Mmmm, might be worth keeping an eye on the hose connection at the caliper. By the sound of it you've got the BH 90 hose, which will be right for the XT levers, but the 810 calipers should run the earlier hose, BH 85 maybe? I can't remember.

Might not be an issue at all, but I know that using the old hose/inserts in levers designed for the BH 90 setup can lead to leaking.