Sore Lower back. Too rigid while riding?

[dusty_nz]

I have a mate who suffers from a sore back while riding. Common issue but a possible different cause. Basically while riding. The more hills, The more pain.

He has had this issue on 4 different bikes. Road bike that was two small, Road bike that was the right size. Full suspension Niner Rip 9(Right size) and now a Giant XTC Hard tail (right size).

By the big range in bikes I think we can eliminate bike fit.

He also did a uni study looking at rider fatigue and they noticed as he rides and also fatigues he does not move in the saddle. No bob, no weave etc.

I think he is riding from the hips. Locking his core out which is great until his core muscles die screaming from being locked in place.

I am suggesting that he should start to incorporate a little roll/weave in his hips and shoulders while climbing. Keeps the back flexible. Also maybe climb out of the saddle.

Thoughts?

 

[Mywifesirrational]

I think he is riding from the hips. Locking his core out which is great until his core muscles die screaming from being locked in place.

That would be my internet guess, holding himself too rigid, muscles are fatiguing. Locking the core isn't great, its a terrible thing to do, you want a supple relaxed back not a tense core.

The hill climb thing will be related to the hips, usually more anterior tilt at the pelvis when climbing requiring greater anterior tilt and the moment arm of the back increases putting it under more load.

Does he get it at any other times, digging in garden, in front of computer?
Does he swim... he should take it up if he doesn't.
Whats the hamstring flexibility like - if they are too tight it stops the pelvis from tiliting and the lower back is under more load than it should be and hence pain symtpoms.
Does he get out the saddle just for a few pedals to stretch the back regularly?

 

[ChopSticks]

is he trying to keep the weight down on the front wheel on those climbs? (ie extended techy mtb climb?)

has he tried the simple solution of running the stem higher/higher rise bars?

 

[mtb101]

wouldn't be surprised if he's pushing too big a gear up climbs. get him to spin in circles, its a harder technique than people think when climbing.

 

[stirk]

wouldn't be surprised if he's pushing too big a gear up climbs. get him to spin in circles, its a harder technique than people think when climbing.

Hi mtb101, What do you mean 'spin in circles'?

I get a sore back but work and scoliosis are at play but if i can use better technique to help I love to know about it.

 

[takai]

I get this as well, but I think its more likely my posture off the bike than on it. Way too long spent hunched over doing research...

As for the spin in circles look at this article: http://cyclingtips.com.au/2009/05/efficiency-of-pedal-stroke-ankling/ its not just pistoning the thighs up and down.

 

[mtb101]

Hi mtb101, What do you mean 'spin in circles'?

I get a sore back but work and scoliosis are at play but if i can use better technique to help I love to know about it.

this is how I understand it - this is from my reading and experience so you can use it to think about how you pedal;

if you look at graph below a lot of riders mash along using B & A (especially when new mtbers hit hills), spinning in circles means training yourself to engage other muscle groups particularly E & D. so the benefit would be more muscles recruited for pedal task - doesn't necessarily mean more power peak but more sustained power over time - so more efficient use of muscles for pedaling = less energy required to achieve same power output or watts. (try it yourself on a trainer, pedal at 70 cadence look at watt output and see how long you can sustain it for, now pedal at 90, watts are the same or slightly more and you can pedal much longer). so at 90 circles = higher average watts over same time.

the spin off being a higher cadence so increased pedal momentum & efficiency. you climb better because you're hitting climbs less fatigued and you're getting up more of the climb spinning vs mashing (B & A) which will have more power for short bursts just takes more energy.

now how does poor pedal technique effect your back/core well because you're more exposed to fatigue (using B & A) as primary movers - as you get fatigued ... the mashing action becomes more aggressive to try and maintain power, back/core over compensate attempting to be a stable base inevitably crashing out.

not a bad explanation

 

[stirk]

this is how I understand it - this is from my reading and experience so you can use it to think about how you pedal;

if you look at graph below a lot of riders mash along using B & A (especially when new mtbers hit hills), spinning in circles means training yourself to engage other muscle groups particularly E & D. so the benefit would be more muscles recruited for pedal task - doesn't necessarily mean more power peak but more sustained power over time - so more efficient use of muscles for pedaling = less energy required to achieve same power output or watts. (try it yourself on a trainer, pedal at 70 cadence look at watt output and see how long you can sustain it for, now pedal at 90, watts are the same or slightly more and you can pedal much longer). so at 90 circles = higher average watts over same time.

the spin off being a higher cadence so increased pedal momentum & efficiency. you climb better because you're hitting climbs less fatigued and you're getting up more of the climb spinning vs mashing (B & A) which will have more power for short bursts just takes more energy.

now how does poor pedal technique effect your back/core well because you're more exposed to fatigue (using B & A) as primary movers - as you get fatigued ... the mashing action becomes more aggressive to try and maintain power, back/core over compensate attempting to be a stable base inevitably crashing out.

not a bad explanation

View attachment 297133

Thanks mate. I think I get it, improve core strength and try and use other muscles through the cycle of pedal rotation.

Just not sure I can use those other muscle groups with flat pedals.

Watched the vid and I sit in the middle I think. With skinny legs I have limited power for mashing as you call it and don't spin too fast or my heart will explode or I start bouncing about.

Maybe that bouncing effect when pedalling fast highlights poor form.

 

[mtb101]

Thanks mate. I think I get it, improve core strength and try and use other muscles through the cycle of pedal rotation.

Just not sure I can use those other muscle groups with flat pedals.

Watched the vid and I sit in the middle I think. With skinny legs I have limited power for mashing as you call it and don't spin too fast or my heart will explode or I start bouncing about.

Maybe that bouncing effect when pedalling fast highlights poor form.

yes bouncing means you still need to work on spin technique.

and yes more spin more cardio required. of course if you get to optimal cardio fitness won't be a problem.