STEEL cyclocross / commuter / touring

[potchi00]

Hi there,

Just getting back into cycling after years of laziness and am getting sick of pushing around my old Proflex 856 on the streets to get fit. Proflex were the original full suspension XC machines (actually I think they were the first production full suspension bikes), but its still too heavy, bouncy and the position's all wrong to get out of the wind.

After some research on the web I think I'm after road bike made from steel (for comfort, strength, repairability and I just like the idea) with drop bars (for the multitude of hand positions and to get out of the wind in the drops) and cyclocross / commuter / touring sensibility (for strength and comfort of the frame). My ideal is probably epitomised by the Salsa La Cruz 'cyclocross' bike with disk brakes (Man, I forgot how terrible rim braking is in the wet and had a few brown pants moments the other day), in every detail except price. This probably puts me in the Surly Cross-Check, Kona Honky Tonk sort of zone.

Given that I'm coming from a mountain biking background and would probably like to use the new bike on some gentle trails in the future, I thought I would check on the Rotorburn crew for advice and ideas.

So what are the best steel (or other material, if you must) drop bar cyclocross / commuter / touring bikes out there?

 

[Oddjob]

I'm a huge fan of the steel Kona roadies. I've got the Kona Sutra touring bike and it's just a joy to ride. The steel frame is made from quality Deodeccai tubing. The ride is super comfortable even on shitty Sydney roads, yet stiff enough to not feel like a wet noodel under 150kgs of rider and loaded panniers in the Italian Alps. The geometry is great and won't leave you feeling all sore after an all day ride and the disc brakes are fantatsic in all conditions. I've got nothing but praise for it.

If you don't want the full touring setup of the Sutra do yourself a favour and get the Honky Inc. with the disc brakes. The stock wheels look pretty good but a set of Velocity Deep V disc wheels would turn that bike into a commuting weapon.

PS I've also taken the Kona Sutra on some unsealed roads. It's not great due to the 700X25 stock tyres, but it's not horrible either. Be warned though it probably won't accept anything bigger than a 700X28 tyre due to the frame clearances at the rear. In this respect you might have more joy from the Surly range.

 

[potchi00]

I'm a huge fan of the steel Kona roadies. I've got the Kona Sutra touring bike and it's just a joy to ride. The steel frame is made from quality Deodeccai tubing. The ride is super comfortable even on shitty Sydney roads, yet stiff enough to not feel like a wet noodel under 150kgs of rider and loaded panniers in the Italian Alps. The geometry is great and won't leave you feeling all sore after an all day ride and the disc brakes are fantatsic in all conditions. I've got nothing but praise for it.

If you don't want the full touring setup of the Sutra do yourself a favour and get the Honky Inc. with the disc brakes. The stock wheels look pretty good but a set of Velocity Deep V disc wheels would turn that bike into a commuting weapon.

PS I've also taken the Kona Sutra on some unsealed roads. It's not great due to the 700X25 stock tyres, but it's not horrible either. Be warned though it probably won't accept anything bigger than a 700X28 tyre due to the frame clearances at the rear. In this respect you might have more joy from the Surly range.

Thanks for the reply Oddjob,

I must admit I have a soft spot for Konas and the Honky Inc looks ideal except for tyre clearance (not that big of a deal) and that it's a brand new model; not much chance on a discounted price. Unfortunately price is a driving factor, even making me stop and consider a much more race oriented and much less flexible in terms of use 2006 Jamis Eclipse. It's at a killer price and at least partially steel (Reynolds 853 "backbone" and junctions with carbon fibre top tube, seat stays and seat tube). Really, I should save my money for a while a get a bike that I really want rather than one that seems like a good deal.

Hey, does anyone have a good idea of comparisons between steel tubing? I think I've got my head around roughly equivalent tube sets from Reynolds and Tange and where 4130 no name or proprietary tubing fits in. I also reckon I understand the basic rule that as tubing gets more expensive so does the strength of the metal, but rather than make stronger frames they make lighter frames. But what about Columbus and Dedacciai? Both of these manufacturers make some very thin tubing so you assume that it must be a good steel, but you don't really see them on MTB's. Maybe they just don't make suitable tube sets.

Overall for my road bike I would be happy with any 4130 chromoly (and you have to assume that Col. and Ded. would make this level and higher) and get happier with increasing grades of steel, but perhaps not happy enough to pay for it. If the biggest difference is weight I should probably work on my gut before complaining too much about my frame.

 

[DW-1]

Fargo

My ideal is probably epitomised by the Salsa La Cruz 'cyclocross' bike with disk brakes
So what are the best steel (or other material, if you must) drop bar cyclocross / commuter / touring bikes out there?

Salsa Fargo.

1) steel
2) disc brakes
3) 29er/700c rims. You can run anything from a 28mm road slick up to a 2.35" full off-road knobby.


Elvis.

 

[potchi00]

Salsa Fargo.

1) steel
2) disc brakes
3) 29er/700c rims. You can run anything from a 28mm road slick up to a 2.35" full off-road knobby.


Elvis.

Yep, I must admit it looks the best of the lot if you are considering a lot of real off-roading and probably in a league of its own for off the rack off-road touring. Does the position / geometry make you suffer a bit on road though? I suppose everyone would come at the on-road / off-road performance balance from a different direction.

 

[DW-1]

Yep, I must admit it looks the best of the lot if you are considering a lot of real off-roading and probably in a league of its own for off the rack off-road touring. Does the position / geometry make you suffer a bit on road though? I suppose everyone would come at the on-road / off-road performance balance from a different direction.

well now that depends on what you mean by "suffer"...

The position is very comfortable. Both on road and off.

But it is a touring bike first and foremost. So compared to a traditional road bike, the stays are longer, the seating position is slightly more upright and the wheelbase is longer. These features are designed to make it more comfortable for long hours in the saddle.

It will never feel fast and sporty on the road. But then it won't beat you up off road either.

It's going to be heavier than a traditional road bike. But then it is designed to carry full touring kit.

I have mine set up with flat bars and an internal geared hub. Mainly for commuting. But I love it to bits.

Elvis.

 

[Oddjob]

If money is an issue it might be worth checking out the offerings from Soma and Charge. the Charge Mixer in particular looks interesting as a commuter http://www.chargebikes.com/products/bikes/detail2.php?id=28

 

[potchi00]

By 'suffer' I mean sitting up in the wind. That's why I want drop bars, I want that option to get out of the wind as much as possible. That's pretty much why the Charge Mixer probably isn't on my list, though the Charge Juicer may be. A big problem in Adelaide is actually finding these bikes in stock so you can test ride them. For instance I've found one shop that stocks Charge in Adelaide and they only have the ss /fixie bikes. How can you tell if the fit's right?

An internal gear hub is another thing I'd really like, but apart from the mixer they seem to be relegated to hybrids and custom builds. Unfortunately, I don't really have enough spare parts lying around to build up my own frame in a cost effective manner.

 

[Oddjob]

By 'suffer' I mean sitting up in the wind. That's why I want drop bars, I want that option to get out of the wind as much as possible. That's pretty much why the Charge Mixer probably isn't on my list, though the Charge Juicer may be. A big problem in Adelaide is actually finding these bikes in stock so you can test ride them. For instance I've found one shop that stocks Charge in Adelaide and they only have the ss /fixie bikes. How can you tell if the fit's right?

An internal gear hub is another thing I'd really like, but apart from the mixer they seem to be relegated to hybrids and custom builds. Unfortunately, I don't really have enough spare parts lying around to build up my own frame in a cost effective manner.

You could always get drop bars or cow horns for the mixer?

 

[potchi00]

You could always get drop bars or cow horns for the mixer?

Maybe I'm giving too much credit to the frame designers, but obviously these different types of bars put your hands in different positions (cow horns could swap for drop bars, but for a bike that fits right you'd have to significantly alter stem length and/or seat positions to swap to these from a flat bar) . For example this bike www.cotic.co.uk/product/roadrat comes in two frame geometries to suit flat bars and drop bars (another killer frame with price / availability issues). The geometry of the Mixer actually looks really short in the top tube and long in the seat tubewww.chargebikes.com/products/bikes/detail2.php?id=28 and may suit drop bars, but I'd need to get one cheap second hand to try this out.

 

[b_S]

Salsa La Cruz 'cyclocross' ... price.

How tall are you? I have a La Cruz frame in "55cm" which actually measures up to be ~58cm top tube.
Seller sold it to me assuring I'd fit, but no luck. I'm 173cm, it'd suit someone 180ish.
PM me if you're interested, it's new (built, ridden once then stuck in the garage since) and selling cheap

Don't get too hung up about disc brakes though, as good as they are a set of decent V's on a cyclocross bike will be more than powerful, and the right pads will help for wet weather. Some 'cross bikes can fit a smallish 29er tyre, ~1.8" or so, which increases offroadability a lot.

 

[potchi00]

How tall are you? I have a La Cruz frame in "55cm" which actually measures up to be ~58cm top tube.
Seller sold it to me assuring I'd fit, but no luck. I'm 173cm, it'd suit someone 180ish.
PM me if you're interested, it's new (built, ridden once then stuck in the garage since) and selling cheap

Don't get too hung up about disc brakes though, as good as they are a set of decent V's on a cyclocross bike will be more than powerful, and the right pads will help for wet weather. Some 'cross bikes can fit a smallish 29er tyre, ~1.8" or so, which increases offroadability a lot.

I'm not really obsessed by having disk brakes. It's something that I would like, not something I 'need'. I realise that (a) they can be overkill for the smaller contact patch of a road tyre and (b) Aren't really available on too many bikes yet, so are hard to find.

 

[DW-1]

I'm not really obsessed by having disk brakes. It's something that I would like, not something I 'need'. I realise that (a) they can be overkill for the smaller contact patch of a road tyre and (b) Aren't really available on too many bikes yet, so are hard to find.

another option is the *new* Salsa Vaya. Cheaper than the Fargo, thanks to slightly lower spec' I believe... and more of a road touring style. (lighter, less tyre clearance and so on...). Still has disc brakes though!

In the DW 2010 catalogue - page 81 (pic is of a proto' though so ignore the spec' in the pic) http://issuu.com/dirt_works/docs/dw_catalog_2010_issuu (page 81 - towards the back in the bikes section)

Elvis.

 

[potchi00]

another option is the *new* Salsa Vaya. Cheaper than the Fargo, thanks to slightly lower spec' I believe... and more of a road touring style. (lighter, less tyre clearance and so on...). Still has disc brakes though!

In the DW 2010 catalogue - page 81 (pic is of a proto' though so ignore the spec' in the pic) http://issuu.com/dirt_works/docs/dw_catalog_2010_issuu (page 81 - towards the back in the bikes section)

Elvis.

Yep, the Vaya seems to have a more on road feel than the Fargo and probably will suit me better, but there is next to no information about it anywhere I can find. Stuff around the web suggest that it will be released in February. Just have to wait patiently I suppose.

 

[Ricardo68]

That Salsa Pistola looks pretty good too, though probably more of a traditional roadie?

 

[potchi00]

That Salsa Pistola looks pretty good too, though probably more of a traditional roadie?

I reckon you could have one of each of the Salsa's and ride a different one every day. They all seem to fit into the groove of what I'm aiming for.

 

[Ricardo68]

Hehe yep, the Salsa roadies all seem to hit the tourer mkt in one way or another.

 

[nsr077]

Consider a Giant Defy, perfect for your needs, especially with the addittion of a bob for long haul touring, The 9 speed cheaper alu/carbon for models are excellent bikes with low gearing that can be lowered further with a MTB cassette. Will handle a dirt road no worries to with clearance for some fat tread. Very practical and tough bike often overlooked..

If your stuck on steel though consider a Fuji Tourer. Cheap and cheefrul and ride very well

Of course, this isnt ideal for off road stuff.

cheers

 

[potchi00]

Consider a Giant Defy, perfect for your needs, especially with the addittion of a bob for long haul touring, The 9 speed cheaper alu/carbon for models are excellent bikes with low gearing that can be lowered further with a MTB cassette. Will handle a dirt road no worries to with clearance for some fat tread. Very practical and tough bike often overlooked..

If your stuck on steel though consider a Fuji Tourer. Cheap and cheefrul and ride very well

Of course, this isnt ideal for off road stuff.

cheers

I was thinking that I was a being a kind of snob because I didn't want to consider a Giant or the other Big manufacturers (and maybe I am, but it doesn't help that they essentially don't do steel). But then I made the effort and tried to find a Defy to have a look at on the web. There must be 15 different bikes called Defy! Too much choice for me. One of the reasons I am a Mac user is that they have a defined and specific product list. When you want to buy a new computer there are probably only a couple to choose from, easy. So maybe the Giant is out
The Fuji looks more interesting to me, the geometry's pretty good and hey, there's only one choice!

 

[potchi00]

Since people have been so helpful with suggestions I thought I would create a list of bikes that fit nicely into my idea of an ideal roadie. They may not suit everyone and at best most of these would have to be ordered unseen and untried from OS. In this way the suggestion of the Giant and Fuji are way more practical, but we can all dream.

Soma Double Cross DC http://www.somafab.com/frames.html

Singular Peregrine http://www.singularcycles.com/peregrine.html

Voodoo Wazoo http://www.voodoocycles.net/wazoo.htm

Voodoo Nishiki http://www.voodoocycles.net/nakisi.htm

Cotic Roadrat http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/roadrat

Steelwool Tweed http://steelwoolbicycles.ca/bikes/tweed.html

Gunnar Fastlane http://www.gunnarbikes.com/fastlane.php

Vassago Fisticuff http://www.vassagocycles.com/fisty.html

Brodie Ronin http://www.brodiebikes.com/2010/bikes/ronin.php

Salsa La Cruz http://www.salsacycles.com/laCruzComp08.html

Actually all the steel Salsa's look good (except for the ss casserol. I'm not fit enough for that yet). And when they don't do steel they do Scandium, the most 'steel like' of the aluminium alloys. http://www.salsacycles.com/bikes.html

Kona Honky Inc http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=honkyinc

Kona Sutra http://www.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=sutra

Surly Cross Check http://surlybikes.com/bikes/cross_check_complete/

Surly LHT http://surlybikes.com/bikes/long_haul_trucker_complete/

Masi Speciale CX http://www.masibikes.com/tab3_subNav3.php

All steel, mostly with a disk brake option (apart from the last few) and at least half are too expensive and too hard to find to be realistic. Since I'm dreaming I'll go with the Gunnar Fastlane, it's only US $900 for the frame and US $275 for the fork. Before you add shipping, tax, customs fees etc. But she looks sweet!