The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

I don't think he is a racist in the true sense of the definition but I can see how his articles were seen as offensive in the no go area of this subject. I do not understand the hate towards him. I just tune out when I do not agree with him.

Like most professional gobshites (of which the left has no shortage of either) Bolt deliberately tries to push peoples buttons by venting extreme opinions on divisive issues.
Unfortunately he does it with all the wit, charm and intelligence of a braying mule. Even his former editor at the Herald Sun (and current News Ltd colleague) David Penberthy has said in print that he is embarrassed by him.

 

[John U]

I also listened to the 2gb podcast

There's your problem. Of course they didn't let her get a word in. That's their modus operandi.

 

[Dene Dweller]

Got the SA State election here this weekend and after 12 years of Labour I can only hope for a majority Liberal government who finally seem to have their backyard in order. We had better not have a minority government.

 

[John U]

Got the SA State election here this weekend and after 12 years of Labour I can only hope for a majority Liberal government who finally seem to have their backyard in order. We had better not have a minority government.

Tony abbott's been over there promising to spend a hundred million today. Doing his best to influence state politics with federal money.

 

[al_]

Did any one catch the Andrew Bolt debate on Q&A. I think Q&A owe him an apology as there were a few false claims made that really should be corrected in all fairness. I also listened to the 2gb podcast with Marcia Langton, it was very amusing as neither side could get a word in or their point across. Bolt and Price should have let her get her point across with out interruption, but in my view she was talking more crap.

I don't think he is a racist in the true sense of the definition but I can see how his articles were seen as offensive in the no go area of this subject. I do not understand the hate towards him. I just tune out when I do not agree with him.

My frustration is that he cynically manipulates and exploits people that lack analytical ability and trust everything they read in print. He also represents incredibly vested interests and uses his prominence to dishonestly misrepresent important issues. He is an abhorrent media figure. I read him for lols, but get furious that he holds influence over plenty that can't see through his crap, or want to believe what he says. Every day the journos I work with strive to abide by an ethical code - meanwhile he does the exact opposite and spreads a vile and wilfully dishonest agenda.

Price isn't much better. I'm mates with his brother though, so have a different perspective on him.

I don't think Qanda owe Bolt anything. If he wants to advocate free speech and use his column to fling shit, he has to he prepared to take it in return. If he was defamed he should sue... but he wasn't. I think he is on very sketchy ground in this debate, so it doesn't surprise me that he undermined the interview. He has spent all week ranting about a reverse race war to justify legislative changes that would allow vilification on the grounds of race. Does anybody really believe that would represent progress? Is there space in the modern, multi-cultural Australia for the rich and powerful to use their prominent positions to vilify the little guy?

 

[Dene Dweller]

Tony abbott's been over there promising to spend a hundred million today. Doing his best to influence state politics with federal money.

That'll probably harm Liberal chances. In the last 12 years of Labour they have:
1. Built a desal which I think is completely necessary, Libs were going to do 50GL capacity for about $1bn, Labour doubled it to 100GL and has cost $2bn. It is yet to be turned on as we currently don't need it and consumes $30m per year in maintenance. Over spent $1bn.
2. Workcover unfunded liability when Labour came to power was around $80m, this has blown out to around $1bn and I don't know why the media aren't banging this drum.
3. Increase the public service from around 60,000 to 80,000. I'd like to see a cost / benefit analysis done on whether these are value add jobs or just more red tape.
4. Highest Workcover levy and payroll tax in the country.
5. Massive increase in electricity prices due to the Libs being forced to privatise assets as a result of the State Bank disaster which occurred in 1991 adding around $3.1bn in debt taking total state debt to approximately $8bn. Given revenue at the time the interest bill was crippling hence the asset sell off.

 

[rednightmare]

Look people, you need to apply a bit of CONTEXT to usage. So I used the abbreviation abo. Big farkin deal.

Do I go down the street abusing a guy calling him an abo? No.
Was this term used by me in any way shape or form as a racial slur? No.
Do I ever abuse aboriginal kids, people, footballers? No.
Have I had MANY conversations with an indigenous person with both him and I using the term abo (with zero offense)? Yes.

But this is a public forum, you have no way of knowing who's going to read your posts. The term 'abo' can be highly offensive to indigenous people - others who have aboriginal friends and/or an inkling of the historical connotations of the term, feel pretty uncomfortable about the whole thing. I was surprised to see Johnny use 'Jap' a few pages back, again, a very loaded abbreviation.

My last word on it, dead horse flogged etc.

 

[johnny]

Jap is considered abusive too?

Really, stop the world. It's time for everyone to get off and forget about the whole thing.

 

[johnny]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0R3OjMcOqg

 

[pink poodle]

Jap is considered abusive too?

Really, stop the world. It's time for everyone to get off and forget about the whole thing.

Yep.

And clerks was not good enough to warrant a sequel....

 

[johnny]

I don't know, I thought it was alright. Mallrats is an all time fav, though.


The reason why 'Jap' gets to me is because from the late 1800s it was fine to call them that. When they signed on with Germany and Italy in the 30s things soured and took a few decades to get better after WWII. There was a few years in the 1980s where people thought the 'Japs' were going to buy up Australia but other than those two isolated periods Australia has had very good relations with the Japanese and I'd argue I've heard 'Jap' used in neutral terms waaaay more often than negative. Yet we seem to have a habit of only paying attention to the negative aspects and being overly dramatic about it by completely forgetting the decades upon decades that it was not a negative term. And it's not like they were persecuted like the black fellas were either. Some of them were unduly interned in concentration camps during the war but their plight could not be compared to the blacks in Australia and the US, nor the Jews, etc. As a matter of fact, for to the greatest degree it has been the Japanese doing the persecuting!

Terms also go back the other way as well. Cosmopolitan has been used in very negatively and in anti-semetic contexts in the past. Should we stop using that word? Sino was used in a derogatory sense by the Japanese for quite some time in History, a lot of Chinese find it offensive, including my wife. Should this word be ruled out of the vernacular too?

My point is that we seem to be so eager to jump on the bandwagon of ruling out words that may cause offense because they have been used offensively at some point. I'm now waiting for the day where we can no longer call the Jewish Jews, white people 'white man' or Americans Yanks.

 

[floody]

Got the SA State election here this weekend and after 12 years of Labour I can only hope for a majority Liberal government who finally seem to have their backyard in order. We had better not have a minority government.

Well bugger me, Tasmanians can swim!

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

Well bugger me, Tasmanians can swim!

What did you think the gills and the webbed toes were for?

 

[pink poodle]

I don't know, I thought it was alright. Mallrats is an all time fav, though.


The reason why 'Jap' gets to me is because from the late 1800s it was fine to call them that. When they signed on with Germany and Italy in the 30s things soured and took a few decades to get better after WWII. There was a few years in the 1980s where people thought the 'Japs' were going to buy up Australia but other than those two isolated periods Australia has had very good relations with the Japanese and I'd argue I've heard 'Jap' used in neutral terms waaaay more often than negative. Yet we seem to have a habit of only paying attention to the negative aspects and being overly dramatic about it by completely forgetting the decades upon decades that it was not a negative term. And it's not like they were persecuted like the black fellas were either. Some of them were unduly interned in concentration camps during the war but their plight could not be compared to the blacks in Australia and the US, nor the Jews, etc. As a matter of fact, for to the greatest degree it has been the Japanese doing the persecuting!

Terms also go back the other way as well. Cosmopolitan has been used in very negatively and in anti-semetic contexts in the past. Should we stop using that word? Sino was used in a derogatory sense by the Japanese for quite some time in History, a lot of Chinese find it offensive, including my wife. Should this word be ruled out of the vernacular too?

My point is that we seem to be so eager to jump on the bandwagon of ruling out words that may cause offense because they have been used offensively at some point. I'm now waiting for the day where we can no longer call the Jewish Jews, white people 'white man' or Americans Yanks.

There is a great Chinese restaraunt near my house called Sino Food. Really delicious stuff.

Thanks for the brief history lesson. You did leave out that they were an ally of ours during WW1....I think the current offence comes from their (brief-ish) period of economic strength after recovering from WW2 where terms like "Jap crap" were used commonly. Even now I work with people too young to have fought in Vietnam that resent Japan. Really strange. I guess a similar consideration might be would you use the term Nip? As it is an abbreviation for Nippon. Personally I wouldn't. Last year while snowboarding in Japan I referred to one of my buddies as a kook (old surfing term for noob from my childhood) because he cut me off. Turns out that was a bit toooclose to gook for some of my crew's liking, and in hindsight I would agree. This year I called him a Jerry. Damn noobs need to get peripheral vision!

I wouldn't think the 1800s to be a great reference period for names and phrases in Australian history. The gold rush gave us all kinds of racist slang that at the time was acceptable. The idea of a world view then was to dominate and make all the other nations subservient to the anglosphere. You could also shoot most non-anglo people legally and Aboriginals were considered fauna. In a japan specific view it was when the west (thanks America) forces them to open up to the rest of the world. I'm not sure that was done with the greatest of tolerance.

And we could also look at the thousand or so years of ongoing conflict between Japan, Korea, China and probably plenty of other neighbours and find some good origins for why they have some strained relations.

Mall rats was better than clerks. I'm just not into whatshisnames style. But I do have a fav line from Mal rats. "You used the force?" That was really funny.

 

[pink poodle]

What did you think the gills and the webbed toes were for?

Webbed toes provide a very sturdy grip.

 

[John U]

I don't know, I thought it was alright. Mallrats is an all time fav, though.

I so didn't want to see this movie because Shannon Doherty was in it. Big mistake. Awesome movie. Nothing like a bit of stinkpalm.

 

[brisneyland]

In a japan specific view it was when the west (thanks America) forces them to open up to the rest of the world. I'm not sure that was done with the greatest of tolerance.

My understanding of Japans modernisation/westernisation was that it was internally driven by a fairly progressive emperor.

Yeah, ok, you're an idiot.

Yeah, great argument.

Johnny, you're a moderator on this forum, and that is pretty poor form. Not the first time you've done it either.

 

[pink poodle]

My understanding of Japans modernisation/westernisation was that it was internally driven by a fairly progressive emperor.

i guess there is a yes and no to that....after the removal of the shogun from actual power, an emporor with real power was needed to represent the american interests in modernising the region. this of course came under a long period of back and fowards of power between various clans as well as the military elite and the emperor etc. it is an interesting history.

wiki puts the opening up like this:

"On March 31, 1854, Commodore Matthew Perry and the "Black Ships" of the United States Navy forced the opening of Japan to the outside world with the Convention of Kanagawa. Subsequent similar treaties with Western countries in the Bakumatsu period brought economic and political crises. The resignation of the shogun led to the Boshin War and the establishment of a centralized state nominally unified under the Emperor (the Meiji Restoration).[40]"

i would propose that when a powerful foreign navy suggests it is time to open, one gets progressive very quickly.

 

[johnny]

My understanding of Japans modernisation/westernisation was that it was internally driven by a fairly progressive emperor.


Yeah, great argument.

Johnny, you're a moderator on this forum, and that is pretty poor form. Not the first time you've done it either.

1. That was also my understanding.

2. Best of luck getting over it.

 

[Knuckles]

point is that we seem to be so eager to jump on the bandwagon of ruling out words that may cause offense because they have been used offensively at some point. I'm now waiting for the day where we can no longer call the Jewish Jews, white people 'white man' or Americans Yanks.

And why is it that the pasty anglo Caucasians seem to be the only ones who get pulled up on it? We have an Indian and a Sri Lankan at work, some of the unbelievably offensive shit that gets traded between them, that just gets ignored. Seems a bit of common sense and equality needs to be employed in the racism regard.