The official running thread

[JanGG]

G'day guys,

Can anyone recomend me some exercises to improve leg strength other than just simply running? I run before gym three times a week for about 10 -15 minutes as a warm up (Mon, Wed, Thurs), and do a half hour run every Tuesday plus a decent walk (out for at least an hour) with some easy jogging mixed in. Been sticking to this as best I can for about two to three months now so I'm slowly getting better, but I would appreciate some more tips on the side from some more experianced runners out there.

I'm training again for the Tough Mudder event so any help would be great. I've never been particularly into running but I really want to make an effort to keep fit as I sit on my backside all day in an office!

 

[kooga]

Squats, box jumps, lunges, Swiss Ball hamstrings(Not sure on official name) Any exercise that builds stability will help. I know that runners world quite often run article's on how doing ab exercises improves your performance. I find they help me, especially over longer distances. If you are getting bored of just going for long jogs change it up with sprints, or even try some swimming every now and then.

 

[cressa]

My vote goes to the Brooks Pure range of shoes, either the cadence or flow depending on whether you need support or not. 4mm heel to toe drop and still plenty of cushioning.

I checked these out at my local running shop yesterday and think you may be on to something. Thanks for the tip.

I picked up some elastic laces while I was in there but haven't given them a go yet. I get a little OCD and can tie my laces up to three times trying to get the tension even and just right prior to running so hopefully these will calm my disorder.

 

[cressa]

G'day guys,

Can anyone recomend me some exercises to improve leg strength other than just simply running? I run before gym three times a week for about 10 -15 minutes as a warm up (Mon, Wed, Thurs), and do a half hour run every Tuesday plus a decent walk (out for at least an hour) with some easy jogging mixed in. Been sticking to this as best I can for about two to three months now so I'm slowly getting better, but I would appreciate some more tips on the side from some more experianced runners out there.

I'm training again for the Tough Mudder event so any help would be great. I've never been particularly into running but I really want to make an effort to keep fit as I sit on my backside all day in an office!

Stairs are good if you can find a good set of them. Do two steps at a time as hard as you can on the way up, and take your time going back down to recover, then repeat. I always feel like stairs are helping me increase my pedal power as it feels like a similar burn / movement.

 

[mtb101]

Stairs are good if you can find a good set of them. Do two steps at a time as hard as you can on the way up, and take your time going back down to recover, then repeat. I always feel like stairs are helping me increase my pedal power as it feels like a similar burn / movement.

+1, yes you can go into a gym and do specifics for leg strength, but nothing beats hill type trail running. I trained up a few guys for the event in Sydney TM 20ks, we mainly worked on hill type interval running through park lands they had no problems keeping up with their group. work into it intensity wise as your body needs time to adapt.

 

[Bermshot]

Theory of the Running Man and Woman; If Cromag was smarter, stronger and better why did us skinny arses evolve to be dominant?

 

[0psi]

Theory of the Running Man and Woman; If Cromag was smarter, stronger and better why did us skinny arses evolve to be dominant?

Because sabertooth caught them!

As for strength training for running, depends on what you want to acheive.

I don't believe in doing weights for distance running, do some core work (abs, obliques and lower back) to provide some stability to your hips and torso but that's it. For anything over 5km I just vote for more running. Weights however light will always add some weight to your frame and power to weight is everything in distance running. If you want endurance then go out and endure.

If you are running shorter distances (especially 800m and under) then a big chunk of your training can be weights. My brief experiment with sprinting (100m and 200m) involved a massive amount of weight training and resistance work.

Plyometric style excercises however can be of benefit to any runner.

Two things to keep in mind though. One, this is just the opinion of some pleb on an internet forum, I'm hardly an authority. Secondly I'm assuming you want to be a 'runner' and not just a guy who likes going for the occasional run. If you fall into the latter category then do whatever you want (with the exception of heavy weights) as any work is good work.

 

[Bermshot]

Opsi, you have achieved ultras so as far as the 'forum pleb' goes I consider you the go to guy. I know I sound like the 'single book' queen but I was trying to consider/bring to the table, that Human evolved due to running, being that our physiology is specific for it. The only hurdle to cross (some pun) is the idea of speed, it's not speed, so what is it?

 

[syphon_the_python]

Long story short; I have terrible feet - about 30cm long (size 12-13) and flatter than Keira Knightley's chest. We're talking NO arch, over-pronation, weak ankles, subsequent sore knees and even hips (and I am 22, fuck).

I've tried inserts (both over the counter and custom orthotics) which have brought minimal improvement.

Any advice re. shoe choices?

 

[brettd]

Long story short; I have terrible feet - about 30cm long (size 12-13) and flatter than Keira Knightley's chest. We're talking NO arch, over-pronation, weak ankles, subsequent sore knees and even hips (and I am 22, fuck).

I've tried inserts (both over the counter and custom orthotics) which have brought minimal improvement.

Any advice re. shoe choices?

Syphon if your close to a beach, runnning on the sand is great. You may have noticed the minimalist shoes(Vibram five fingers, Fila skeletoes) now that all the brands are bringing out. They've decided that all those big thick soles and gels arent the best thing for you.
Running on the beach barefoot is the best minmalist shoe you can get, great for your strengthening from your toes up.

 

[0psi]

Have you read born to run? Bahahaha.

I see you are in Sidernee. Head up to a place called Footpoint shoe clinic, I think they are in Mosman. They are the guys for shoe fitting

http://www.footpointshoeclinic.com.au/

 

[0psi]

Opsi, you have achieved ultras so as far as the 'forum pleb' goes I consider you the go to guy. I know I sound like the 'single book' queen but I was trying to consider/bring to the table, that Human evolved due to running, being that our physiology is specific for it. The only hurdle to cross (some pun) is the idea of speed, it's not speed, so what is it?

It seems you are giving me far too much credit Berm but thanks for the kind words.

My exercise comments were regarding the current theme of the thread not your comment. I pretty much agree with what you said, it's part of the reason I love running. It's so easy in the sense that you don't need anything but yourself to do it and I personally feel it's the purest form of competition. As for speed, well let me put it this way. I've raced cars and I've sprinted on the track and no word of a lie sprinting gives you more of a sensation of speed. 35kph running feels a hell of a lot faster than a rally car at 160kph.

 

[Bermshot]

Yeah cool, I apologise for getting all cryptic as usual. I wasn't trying to get away from the essence of the thread but more to point out the little known fact that Homosapian evolved as The Running Man and the essence there of. I found the idea of Persistance Hunting fascinating and thought others might also enjoy if it were possible to decipher my early morning dribble.

So with that in mind (Persistance hunting) the theory of bare footing does appear to have good traction.

 

[0psi]

the theory of bare footing does appear to have good traction.

I theory yes, in practice not so much. If you grew up not wearing shoes all that often or took up competitive running at an early age then the barefoot movement holds a lot of weight. If you grew up wearing shoes as a lot of people in developed countries do them you need to make a serious commitment to going barefoot. Strengthening the foot and lower leg muscles to accomodate a barefoot running style is one thing but fundamentally changing your running style is quite another and is something that takes years. For the majority of people I think barefoot running is a good part of training but shouldn't be the be all and end all.

I read an interesting article a few years back when the barefoot movement was really starting to take hold which explored the speed differences between a traditional running shoe (12-14mm drop, lots of cushioning), a traditional race flat (4-6mm drop, minimal cushioning) and a barefoot shoe (0mm drop and no cushioning). Basically in the hands of an experienced runner the difference was negligable. Most of the 'hype' surrounding barefoot shoes is coming from the average runner who has poor biomechanics and barefoot shoes correct most of these or rather they force you to run properly, shortening your stride, raising your cadence and forcing your footfall back to underneath your body (which leads to a mid/forefoot strike), all of which experienced/elite runners already do.

 

[Bermshot]

Yep that's what I gathered, it has more to do with technique rather than how much your shoes cost. What you just explained Opsi should be what beginners and oldies with niggles should focus on. We are so use to walking heel to toe that we automatically run the same way. It's funny you know, the Grand master of Ninjutsu insisted on walking the same way you should run ie: mid foot to heel. It makes you automatically 'prance' lol!

 

[Morgan123]

I read an interesting article a few years back when the barefoot movement was really starting to take hold which explored the speed differences between a traditional running shoe (12-14mm drop, lots of cushioning), a traditional race flat (4-6mm drop, minimal cushioning) and a barefoot shoe (0mm drop and no cushioning). Basically in the hands of an experienced runner the difference was negligable. Most of the 'hype' surrounding barefoot shoes is coming from the average runner who has poor biomechanics and barefoot shoes correct most of these or rather they force you to run properly, shortening your stride, raising your cadence and forcing your footfall back to underneath your body (which leads to a mid/forefoot strike), all of which experienced/elite runners already do.

So if I had an extremely bad running technique would doing barefoot running (shoe) be a good idea to try fix it? Even after just a couple of weeks running i'll get shin splints so painful I can barely walk and after just one week of running on a treadmill my heels are bruised and saw. Would they help?

 

[0psi]

So if I had an extremely bad running technique would doing barefoot running (shoe) be a good idea to try fix it? Even after just a couple of weeks running i'll get shin splints so painful I can barely walk and after just one week of running on a treadmill my heels are bruised and saw. Would they help?

Sort of and it's a long winded process. A barefoot shoe doesn't so much correct your form as force you to run right. It's not like you'll put a pair of barefoot shoes on and suddenly all your biomechanical issues go away, they just teach you to run properly. Ideally you want to be landing on your mid to forefoot as this will allow your foot and ankle to absorb some of the impact. If you land on your heel then the impact is basically transferred directly up your leg and the only thing stopping it is the little bit of padding in your shoe, hardly ideal. The lower heel to toe drop also makes it easier to land on your forefoot and there are other reasons for a mid to forefoot strike but rather than writing a short essay on running biomechanics just PM me or ask questions here and I'll do my best to answer.

Think of it like wearing a shock collar, it will give you instant feedback if you heel strike as there is no padding in the sole. Run bad, get zapped.

Have a look at the Brooks Pure range of shoes, namely the Flow and Cadence (neutral and control shoes). They have a low heel to toe drop (4mm) so it makes a forefoot strike easier but they have full length cushioning so they are still soft underfoot, so much so that I rarely run with mine anymore. Unless I'm going for a slow run I'll use something else as they (Pure Flow in my case) are so cushy that they don't feel efficient when running fast. And as with the transition to any barefoot/minimal shoe take your time to adjust. Your calves especially need time to lengthen and adjust to the lower heel position.

 

[kavo]

Or you could see a podiatrist.

I got orthotics a few months ago, and while it is also a process that takes time i do feel like my feet are less sore after runs, although my legs (specifically lower calves) are always much sorer as they force my foot to strike in a more neutral manner.

 

[mtb101]

So if I had an extremely bad running technique would doing barefoot running (shoe) be a good idea to try fix it? Even after just a couple of weeks running i'll get shin splints so painful I can barely walk and after just one week of running on a treadmill my heels are bruised and saw. Would they help?

as others have said +
keep in mind you can't take a lifetime of not running (or only occasionally running) and get up to speed overnight. It's an incremental approach and those shin splints etc are your body - muscle groups, tendons etc not coping with the load. The splints results from the infrastructure around the leg not able to absorb the repetitive load that running puts you under. So initially you'll need to tread lightly (train on a soft surface) and slowly build up your distance/speed. If you are over weight, then running's going to put 3 or 4 times the walking load on your joints, not good. So as I said it's an incremental approach. Yes barefoot runners are good, but the real trick is the surface you run on, distance and just taking your time to adapt.

 

[Morgan123]

as others have said +
keep in mind you can't take a lifetime of not running (or only occasionally running) and get up to speed overnight. It's an incremental approach and those shin splints etc are your body - muscle groups, tendons etc not coping with the load. The splints results from the infrastructure around the leg not able to absorb the repetitive load that running puts you under. So initially you'll need to tread lightly (train on a soft surface) and slowly build up your distance/speed. If you are over weight, then running's going to put 3 or 4 times the walking load on your joints, not good. So as I said it's an incremental approach. Yes barefoot runners are good, but the real trick is the surface you run on, distance and just taking your time to adapt.

Yeh that's what I thought which is why I stuck to the treadmill as it seems to be a lot softer then concrete or gravel paths. Not overweight it's just a terrible technique which is annoying as I just wanna keep running . Used to be one of the fittest guys going round now after a few slack years i've got nothing