The plumbing thread

[Haakon]

Plumbers - useful or otherwise advice sought Am trying to get the fuckups out of the way before I seal up the wall…

I have one fitting on 1/2 copper that will be buried under plasterboard, so I took a length of pipe and a bpress elbow to a friendly plumber who pressed it on.

But it’s annealed pipe (a new thjng I learnt this morning!) and it rotated on the pipe a few degrees.

Question - is annealed pipe ok with crimp fittings, and it is a bad idea to bury one that can wiggle after crimping…?

 

[fatboyonabike]

Plumbers - useful or otherwise advice sought Am trying to get the fuckups out of the way before I seal up the wall…

I have one fitting on 1/2 copper that will be buried under plasterboard, so I took a length of pipe and a bpress elbow to a friendly plumber who pressed it on.

But it’s annealed pipe (a new thjng I learnt this morning!) and it rotated on the pipe a few degrees.

Question - is annealed pipe ok with crimp fittings, and it is a bad idea to bury one that can wiggle after crimping…?

probably ok...(not a plumber)..but if you are in anyway like me, will this minor detail cause you to lose sleep over it for the sake of doing it again?
annealed pipe will move a fair bit before to weakens and ruptures (am a fridgie)

 

[Haakon]

Might be normal, might not. Blokes at Reece are not plumbers so they shrugged their shoulders. Am loathe to pester the nice bloke who helped this morning, but don’t mind pestering you lot

 

[Flow-Rider]

Why don't you flick an email to the people who sell or make the crimped fittings? (Manufacturer's recommendations)

 

[Haakon]

Why don't you flick an email to the people who sell or make the crimped fittings? (Manufacturer's recommendations)

Reading a few of their instructions. They say annealed is ok, but no mention of it being ok if you make it rotate.

Am no doubt over thinking it, but will be a pita if I every have to pull the wall apart to get to a leak later.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Reading a few of their instructions. They say annealed is ok, but no mention of it being ok if you make it rotate.

Am no doubt over thinking it, but will be a pita if I every have to pull the wall apart to get to a leak later.

Sounds dodgy but I'm no plumber. Nothing beats a soldered joint.

 

[Dales Cannon]

Annealed is what you want. If you think it has strain hardened heat it up red with a map torch and quench it in water to reanneal. I suspect it will be fine but if you are concerned reanneal. You are going to pressure test before sealing up the wall??? Yes???

 

[Haakon]

Annealed is what you want. If you think it has strain hardened heat it up red with a map torch and quench it in water to reanneal. I suspect it will be fine but if you are concerned reanneal. You are going to pressure test before sealing up the wall??? Yes???

I reckon I’m going to leave it hooked up and pressurised for at least a couple of weeks before I start on the plastering!!

Annealed is a bit softer I think, so feels like the crimp hasn’t gripped it as hard. But maybe it’s the fitting that’s not gripping. But it’s the o ring that makes the seal so it should be fine… It’s the cistern supply in the toilet, and there is only the bay cave under the house so if it does spring a leak I’ll be up for removing some wall but it won’t be a disaster.

 

[Dales Cannon]

Aha. Leave it. I thought it was a cu on cu crimp.

 

[Haakon]

Aha. Leave it. I thought it was a cu on cu crimp.

Brass on copper.

 

[Haakon]

Some more surprises…

 

[fatboyonabike]

Sounds dodgy but I'm no plumber. Nothing beats a soldered joint.

if done correctly!

 

[fatboyonabike]

Brass on copper.

View attachment 402529

should be fine..I have used similar fitting on compressed air installs where the fitting moved once crimped..I had to buy the fitter lunch that day, as i bet sure as shit it would leak once at pressure..
The pressure behind it actually helped it seal, as it pushes outward on the pipe and also pushes the crimp fitting further down the tubing allowing the o-ring to seal better
short answer...let it ride

 

[Haakon]

Mountain bikers are clearly most useful and broadly skilled demographic in the world. Always (mostly. sometimes…) going to get useful answers!

 

[Dales Cannon]

Some more surprises…

View attachment 402530View attachment 402531

Kinky. My plumber used the copper on copper crimps. Definitely don't heat and quench this! It will be fine.

 

[Plankosaurus]

we tended to use bpress exclusively on hard drawn copper, in fact we never bought annealed. we did frequently join to annealed copper though and i never heard of failures down the line (occaisionally had issues straight away, but usually due to dicey joins where the alternative was to rip out part of a wall to get to a better section of pipe). annealing happens when you heat copper, so every single welded join will have soft copper around it at least, and you should anneal before making a flared join because the copper will conform to the flare and seal better.

Bpress should be fine on annealed copper. i'd avoid it on lower grade copper that sometimes got used in the olden days (thinner walls + annealed = farrrrr too much potential to go out of shape)

Bpress can rotate a little and still maintain a seal. its not the crimp that seals but the little o-ring inside. if the crimp allows the pipe to slide at all though i'd can it and do it again because a little hammering will loosen it up over time. i wouldn't spin it deliberately, but it'll move a little without an issue.


the soldered tee looks like a good job from here, the corrosion is likely from condensation or something in the past. if its not wet with the water on, i'd leave it alone.

the gal pipe is straight up the devil. if there's not much of it there, i'd get rid of it. if there's lots of it there, i'd still get rid of it because i can do plumbing and i know its a time bomb at worst and a great way to get extra iron oxide in your diet at best. Probably a big expense to get rid of the gal though, if its your main line to the meter you might have your work cut out for you. (i once pulled a gal pipe out of a wall that had rusted shut. the end never got capped, owner had run a new pipe through the wall into the room and didn't disconnect or cap the old gal pipe)

 

[Dales Cannon]

we tended to use bpress exclusively on hard drawn copper, in fact we never bought annealed. we did frequently join to annealed copper though and i never heard of failures down the line (occaisionally had issues straight away, but usually due to dicey joins where the alternative was to rip out part of a wall to get to a better section of pipe). annealing happens when you heat copper, so every single welded join will have soft copper around it at least, and you should anneal before making a flared join because the copper will conform to the flare and seal better.

Bpress should be fine on annealed copper. i'd avoid it on lower grade copper that sometimes got used in the olden days (thinner walls + annealed = farrrrr too much potential to go out of shape)

Bpress can rotate a little and still maintain a seal. its not the crimp that seals but the little o-ring inside. if the crimp allows the pipe to slide at all though i'd can it and do it again because a little hammering will loosen it up over time. i wouldn't spin it deliberately, but it'll move a little without an issue.


the soldered tee looks like a good job from here, the corrosion is likely from condensation or something in the past. if its not wet with the water on, i'd leave it alone.

the gal pipe is straight up the devil. if there's not much of it there, i'd get rid of it. if there's lots of it there, i'd still get rid of it because i can do plumbing and i know its a time bomb at worst and a great way to get extra iron oxide in your diet at best. Probably a big expense to get rid of the gal though, if its your main line to the meter you might have your work cut out for you. (i once pulled a gal pipe out of a wall that had rusted shut. the end never got capped, owner had run a new pipe through the wall into the room and didn't disconnect or cap the old gal pipe)

I was visiting mum years ago en route to land hunting and she casually mentioned that the bath water pressure was a bit low. I checked and could spit faster. So the weekend consisted of tearing out the near blocked gal pipe and running poly. Luckily it was a high set house so access was easy.

 

[Plankosaurus]

I was visiting mum years ago en route to land hunting and she casually mentioned that the bath water pressure was a bit low. I checked and could spit faster. So the weekend consisted of tearing out the near blocked gal pipe and running poly. Luckily it was a high set house so access was easy.

Don't get me started on gal for gas either.

Replaced a cooktop at a rental once, did a pressure test and spent half an hour trying to work out what was wrong with the manometer. Nope, it was a gal pipe with about 30 holes in it just under the dirt that leaked so much I couldn't get the manometer up to pressure, let alone stay there.

The devil!

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Haakon]

we tended to use bpress exclusively on hard drawn copper, in fact we never bought annealed. we did frequently join to annealed copper though and i never heard of failures down the line (occaisionally had issues straight away, but usually due to dicey joins where the alternative was to rip out part of a wall to get to a better section of pipe). annealing happens when you heat copper, so every single welded join will have soft copper around it at least, and you should anneal before making a flared join because the copper will conform to the flare and seal better.

Bpress should be fine on annealed copper. i'd avoid it on lower grade copper that sometimes got used in the olden days (thinner walls + annealed = farrrrr too much potential to go out of shape)

Bpress can rotate a little and still maintain a seal. its not the crimp that seals but the little o-ring inside. if the crimp allows the pipe to slide at all though i'd can it and do it again because a little hammering will loosen it up over time. i wouldn't spin it deliberately, but it'll move a little without an issue.


the soldered tee looks like a good job from here, the corrosion is likely from condensation or something in the past. if its not wet with the water on, i'd leave it alone.

the gal pipe is straight up the devil. if there's not much of it there, i'd get rid of it. if there's lots of it there, i'd still get rid of it because i can do plumbing and i know its a time bomb at worst and a great way to get extra iron oxide in your diet at best. Probably a big expense to get rid of the gal though, if its your main line to the meter you might have your work cut out for you. (i once pulled a gal pipe out of a wall that had rusted shut. the end never got capped, owner had run a new pipe through the wall into the room and didn't disconnect or cap the old gal pipe)

It did take me twisting on it without thinking to move it. But no movement that hammering will move. I’ll send it as is and see how it goes

I reckon it’s a steel strap over the pipe that’s caused some corrosion in the copper - incompatible metals over 50 years… Not condensation, definitely a small leak. The soldering work they did has certainly gone the distance though. All part of a setup I’ll replace in one job - supply from the left, branch to the toilet and straight to the gal pipe and the outside tap.

The galvanised pipe only feeds an outside tap - it does give a second or two of brown water when turned on, but it very rarely gets used and I'm not convinced it’s worth the bother to replace the 5 or 6 metres just for that tap… This is not my forever house!

 

[Tubbsy]

I’ll send it as is and see how it goes

Send it bro