Warranty issues- where to next?

[Turley]

So, I've recently had a claim for a warranty rejected by a major manufacturer. I do not agree with the assessment and, as such, I want to take this further.

I figure the next step will be to write a letter directly to the manufacturer outlining why I think I should be eligible for warranty.

If this fails, what government agency (consumer affairs?) would I need to progress my complaint with? And what other processes might I take to try and get this issue resolved.

Any help/experience would be greatly appreciated.

T

 

[AngoXC]

What is the nature of the issue?

 

[Turley]

I discovered a vertical crack in the seat tube of my road bike. Manufacturer claims this has occurred because the seat clamp was not tightened enough and it slipped while riding, putting pressure on the "cut out" causing the cracking of the carbon frame.

This situation has occurred once, which was the day I rode the bike home from the bike shop. The bike shop did not tighten the seat collar enough causing the seat post to slip down completely before I arrived home. The seat post has never slipped down since this first ride, but I only notice the crack recently, just over a year after this incident. In addition, speaking to another dealer, they said that once they setup seat height, they cut the carbon seatpost to avoid this issue occuring in these frames. This did not occur when I bought the bike.

Given this situation, I do not feel that I should be responsible for replacing the frame while the bike is still within warranty period.

I hope that explained the nature of my issue.

T

 

[driftking]

I cant help with the next steps in the process but it seems that if the manufacture is claiming that the initial incident was caused by a loose seat clamp then the bike shop should be at fault for that initial occurrence if the shop didn't tightened a fork lower and the forks snapped they would be at fault so the same should go for this.
Also did you mention this to the manufacturer? I mean how did they come to the conclusion of the seat clamp being too loose? while it might happen in other cases can they prove that it was this that caused the crack and not a fault in the frame?
If all they base the claim on is speculation and previous customer issues then it isn't really a proper assessment, unless they can prove that it was the seat clamp and the fault of you I would expect them to warrant the frame.

They cant say "well this is common when the seat clamp is loose, so you must have had a loose seat clamp." - If they cannot prove it then how can they rule against it.

Whatever the outcome if you looked after it correctly and the only instance was when you picked it up then it is the fault of the shop or manufacturer.

IMO

 

[mars mtb]

OK, can you elaborate on the rejection letter?
Was it in fact the manufacturer?
Or was it the distributor?
Or was it the LBS?
Were you provided a verbal rejection and reason or was it detailed in a written assessment.
A reasonable LBS could make an assessment themselves and manage a frame replacement with the distributor dependent on their relationship influence etc.
However the standard process is the distributor either receives the frame or photographs and if unable to make an assessment themselves they will send the pics (usually not the frame) back to the manufacturer/mothership office of the brand.
After assessment a decision is usually made and more often than not options are provided to the customer.
Typically those options are positive in nature ranging from a replacement frame at no cost but you pay for transfer of parts in most cases, or a reduced price replacement frame dependent on shared accountability of fault to no go, but no go is rare.
Unless you have written correspondence from the actual decision maker logically detailing the reason for the failure you cannot ascertain if it has gone through the proper channels so I would chase that first.

And yes if you wish to pursue this if you have in fact received “manufacturer” decision you could visit a carbon frame expert here in Australia, pay a fee and have them make an engineering determination that would either support your case or not.

On the face of limited information I question whether this actually got to the “manufacturer” or whether it was a decision made purely at the LBS to fob you off.

Whatever you do don’t lose, be firm logical and seek clarification, provide as much detail as you can, you may find you end up meeting in the middle somewhere.

As a reference in eleventy billion years of riding I have only had a handful of warranty issues myself for my stuff that were remedied without a hitch as follows;

Rear triangle on a very expensive handmade usa duallie was welded incorrectly and off kilter – I secured a written engineers report from a well known bicycle engineer, this sped up the process and local distributor honoured replacement in a week rather than waiting for usa response
Super record lever had a part break internally – explained the situation to LBS and provided a detailed explanation that they passed to distributor, part was replaced, lever fixed and returned in a week
Flatlock stitching on an expensive pair of knicks coming undone majorly after 2 rides, ended up being a known batch problem and resolved on the spot
Schwalbe tyre issue, ended up being a failure in manufacturing process impacting those tyres world-wide, full refund as no stock or replacement available at that time

That’s about it for me, but a reasonable situation can always be resolved I reckon.

But I had previously dealt with customers/riders with exy bikes who had carbon frame failures and out of about 6 by memory each were provided with a new frame although one took 6 mths to resolve due to frame shortages
Another guy came in after he had crashed and asked if he could be helped after crashing his new pride and joy and his fault, spoke with the distributor, he wasn’t a regular customer a but a teenager who saved for ages and arranged a crash replacement at a reduced price.

Recently there have been issues with a batch of xtr pedals coming away from the spindle and the response led by Shimano is immediate exchange with replacement.

As I indicated I am surprised you say you have a no-go, but you indicate there is a he said she said between you and the LBS on incorrect seat collar adjustment and these little facts add to your dilemma on unfair wear and tear (you) versus warranty (manufacturer/distributor) versus duty of care in the build up (LBS) of your bike.

I’d go back and re-establish discussion with the manager or owner of the LBS, take notes now on what has transpired and take notes on nature of the conversation yet to come as you may need them if all goes wrong, but I’d like to think you can reach some arrangement.

Hopefully this gives you some perspective and may help you in some way.

 

[redbruce]

I discovered a vertical crack in the seat tube of my road bike. Manufacturer claims this has occurred because the seat clamp was not tightened enough and it slipped while riding, putting pressure on the "cut out" causing the cracking of the carbon frame.

This situation has occurred once, which was the day I rode the bike home from the bike shop. The bike shop did not tighten the seat collar enough causing the seat post to slip down completely before I arrived home. The seat post has never slipped down since this first ride, but I only notice the crack recently, just over a year after this incident. In addition, speaking to another dealer, they said that once they setup seat height, they cut the carbon seatpost to avoid this issue occuring in these frames. This did not occur when I bought the bike.

Given this situation, I do not feel that I should be responsible for replacing the frame while the bike is still within warranty period.

I hope that explained the nature of my issue.

T

So the manufacturer is correct. It isn't their responsibility, its the bike shop.

Thats who you need to be dealing with as they are at fault.

 

[Turley]

Just to clarify, the frame has been examined by the manufacturers rep and I have been informed by the LBS of their assessment.

I believe that the rep removed the seat post to examine whether the seat post caused this issue. I am yet to examine the seat post myself, but will collect the bike this afternoon. In addition, there are paint marks on the side of the seat post from when it slipped, which would have given the rep an indication of what might have caused the issue. The rep was not made aware of the situation with the shop I bought it from, as I was unaware of what would cause a crack in the middle of the seat tube. I believe that the process to date has been professional and I have no reason to doubt the assessment of the cause of the crack by the rep.

Part of my question is whether a manufacturer is responsible for the actions of their dealers? I can appeal to the shop I bought it from if that is who is responsible for warranty/replacement. I should add, it wasn't like the seat clamp was not tightened at all! It was "just" not tight enough to prevent it from slipping, but not tight to prevent the frame cracking.

Ultimately, I do not believe that it was my fault at all for the crack occuring in the frame, but I am unsure of how to progress with this claim.

T

 

[dunndog]

If it were me, my first port of call would be the bike shop. They build your bike because that's what the bike company wants - a pro build, not a backyard hack build - to assure the integrity of the frame and components. although a minor overlook, it's had a major consequence unfortunately. This was the fault of the bike shop, not the bike company, so they should be sorting out a new frame for you. If it falls over here, then i'd be telling the shop I want to have a discussion IN PERSON with the rep next time he's in, with the shop manager in attendance so everything said by everyone is in open air and on record. If nothing, then it's direct to the bike company themselves (which is what speaking to the rep SHOULD be, but there is a chance that the rep is in bed with the shop where head office wouldn't be). By now they should be worried about the damage being done to their brand which is a big help to you. After that, consumer affairs.
No matter who's at fault, it isn't you, so if an arbitrary body is needed to decide who is liable it'll be either of them.
The only snag you have caught yourself on is that 1 year has passed since the incident. 1 year is a long time, hopefully that doesn't work against you.
Good luck mate, hope it doesn't drag on too long and you get a good result.

 

[SideFX]

In a very calm letter .Inform the bike shop owner / manager that you had brought the slipping post issue to there attention 1 year ago in conversation and were assured that it was fine . Enlighten them to the fact that this has been the cause of the crack stated by the manufactures representative . Ask them to replace the frame or retribution " a new frame or full refund " . If they say no they cant help start litigation .

 

[FatGuts]

OK, can you elaborate on the rejection letter?
Was it in fact the manufacturer?
Or was it the distributor?
Or was it the LBS?
Were you provided a verbal rejection and reason or was it detailed in a written assessment.
A reasonable LBS could make an assessment themselves and manage a frame replacement with the distributor dependent on their relationship influence etc.
However the standard process is the distributor either receives the frame or photographs and if unable to make an assessment themselves they will send the pics (usually not the frame) back to the manufacturer/mothership office of the brand.
After assessment a decision is usually made and more often than not options are provided to the customer.
Typically those options are positive in nature ranging from a replacement frame at no cost but you pay for transfer of parts in most cases, or a reduced price replacement frame dependent on shared accountability of fault to no go, but no go is rare.
Unless you have written correspondence from the actual decision maker logically detailing the reason for the failure you cannot ascertain if it has gone through the proper channels so I would chase that first.

And yes if you wish to pursue this if you have in fact received “manufacturer” decision you could visit a carbon frame expert here in Australia, pay a fee and have them make an engineering determination that would either support your case or not.

On the face of limited information I question whether this actually got to the “manufacturer” or whether it was a decision made purely at the LBS to fob you off.

Whatever you do don’t lose, be firm logical and seek clarification, provide as much detail as you can, you may find you end up meeting in the middle somewhere.

As a reference in eleventy billion years of riding I have only had a handful of warranty issues myself for my stuff that were remedied without a hitch as follows;

Rear triangle on a very expensive handmade usa duallie was welded incorrectly and off kilter – I secured a written engineers report from a well known bicycle engineer, this sped up the process and local distributor honoured replacement in a week rather than waiting for usa response
Super record lever had a part break internally – explained the situation to LBS and provided a detailed explanation that they passed to distributor, part was replaced, lever fixed and returned in a week
Flatlock stitching on an expensive pair of knicks coming undone majorly after 2 rides, ended up being a known batch problem and resolved on the spot
Schwalbe tyre issue, ended up being a failure in manufacturing process impacting those tyres world-wide, full refund as no stock or replacement available at that time

That’s about it for me, but a reasonable situation can always be resolved I reckon.

But I had previously dealt with customers/riders with exy bikes who had carbon frame failures and out of about 6 by memory each were provided with a new frame although one took 6 mths to resolve due to frame shortages
Another guy came in after he had crashed and asked if he could be helped after crashing his new pride and joy and his fault, spoke with the distributor, he wasn’t a regular customer a but a teenager who saved for ages and arranged a crash replacement at a reduced price.

Recently there have been issues with a batch of xtr pedals coming away from the spindle and the response led by Shimano is immediate exchange with replacement.

As I indicated I am surprised you say you have a no-go, but you indicate there is a he said she said between you and the LBS on incorrect seat collar adjustment and these little facts add to your dilemma on unfair wear and tear (you) versus warranty (manufacturer/distributor) versus duty of care in the build up (LBS) of your bike.

I’d go back and re-establish discussion with the manager or owner of the LBS, take notes now on what has transpired and take notes on nature of the conversation yet to come as you may need them if all goes wrong, but I’d like to think you can reach some arrangement.

Hopefully this gives you some perspective and may help you in some way.

This is the only advice you need to follow in this thread. I work in an area of the Austalian Government that deals with safety investigations and recalls on motor vehicles & this is the absolute best course of action to take.

If you get no luck with the LBS, write a letter tothe manufacturer, if no luck there then small claims in your state. The office of fair trading in your state will be able to give you some good advice.

Make yourself familiar with the Australian Conaumer Law, the ACCC has some good publications on cosumer rights & supplier responsibility. This research is all important because it is hard to argue if you dont know the law.

Good luck.

 

[thecat]

Contact the importer first. Explain the situation as you see it and ask them to discuss the matter further with LBS.