What makes a strong wheel?

[Zaf]

Essentially there are a few big factors that make a wheel strong.

Rims: A few big factors here, profile of the rim, intended spoke tension, width, profile bracing material all can have a fairly big impact on how the wheel behaves. Wider, lower profile rims are generally harder to flex laterally, but can deform from tyre side impacts better so can give a more compliant ride than a taller rim. Few reasons being that the lower profile has a resultant larger ERD (and longer spokes because of it) as well as less material bracing in that direction.
Hookless profiles are supposed to offer better resistance to impact damage, and there seems to be an reasonable easy to follow logic to having a little lip on the contact edge of the rim (in the case of said impact) vs a completely solid bead edge. Again, rim profile will have an effect on how these impacts are transferred, if the rim is vertically rigid, the rim material itself will absorb the impact instead of the form of the rim, resulting in flat spots.

I want to write more on spokes, and tensions and lacing patterns and flanges and all the myriad of different factors that constitute a strong wheel, but this is just a huge rabbit hole and I should go to bed. In short, go look at Wheelworx FLITE wheelsets, and the gorgeous contraption he uses to bed the rim and spokes in and remember that it's the builder that makes the biggest difference to a wheelset. If you want something strong, I've yet to see a single more convincing display of durability than his processes in building.

If your funds are tighter, Flow EX's are pretty well bomb proof, just gotta keep an eye on spoke tensions for the first 500km...after that they just don't die.
Also Aaron Gwin did a fairly amazing stress test of the DT Swiss EX471's, which I feel is a great advertisement for their durability.

 

[pink poodle]

All this talk of rims and flanges...

You got me, I was thinking selflishly as a non-29 rider.

Well I guess there's no agendas being pushed onto punters afterall and I'm pretty sure this will be the last we see of minor platform-level changes to bike design that render all previous models and significant parts obsolete.

It was the change we needed to have. Look at how sales have improved as a result!

 

[Timberwilly]

I don't think I saw any mention of nipple material in any of the above. Aluminium sucks as a nipple material in my opinion. Sheds about 50g over brass for a wheel set I think. Or maybe it's per wheel. Whatever, it isn't worth it. Aluminium nipples corrode and fail even without excess spoke tension. Brass nipples are infinitely more durable


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[Mr Crudley]

I don't think I saw any mention of nipple material in any of the above. Aluminium sucks as a nipple material in my opinion. Sheds about 50g over brass for a wheel set I think. Or maybe it's per wheel. Whatever, it isn't worth it. Aluminium nipples corrode and fail even without excess spoke tension. Brass nipples are infinitely more durable

+1, I found alloy are also easier to round off if you need to true a wheel. Even though I thought brass would be softer material.

I think a fairly safe formula and shopping list is double butted spokes, 3 cross pattern, double cavity or walled welded rim, brass nipples. Tension the wheel properly while building. Lace it to some XT level hubs if you want it to work with no bling. Always take your time when building wheels and don't do it if you are rushed.

A good set of wheels will outlast fickle MTB fashion and 'standards'.
Lace up some 27.5" wheels now and they will last until 28.75" wheels hit he shelves as the next big thing and American Mountain bike magazines tout them as the new saviors of the universe guaranteed to make singletrack 0.05% more fun than the ye olde obsolete 27.5" wheels that weren't ever as good as we told you anyhow :tape2:

 

[No Skid Marks]

Part of bike maintenance should be to check the spoke tension every so often not every week though. Always on new wheels I do a retension or check of the spoke tension after the first 100km mark after everything has settle in. It's a bit of an open question as rider weight and the type of discipline of riding should be factored for variations of different types of wheel builds. If you use good quality parts suitable to your intended use and keep the maintenance up, I can't see you going wrong.

This.
Maintanence. check spoke tension by hand by grabing tow spokes then the next two, then the next two, and so on, all on same side, then the other side. A less spoke spreads and compromises the whole strength quite rapidly.
As for wheel, wide and heavy, like MTX were strong wheels, but soft ally that dented easy or poor bead lip side wall shape/design.
I found 823s a pretty good balance of weight Vs strength. All about the 35mm wides now. and running Carbonz. But I'd try the Syntace 35s maybe on the rear next. I found Stans alright, dent up easy and warp a bit, but keep tyre on until you vacan be arsed relacing new rim on, but you would need to change rims. Alright if you want to learn wheel tech, pretty easy to swap one spoke over at a time to lace a new rim. Lots of threads on this.
In short. Alex DH rim I think is probably one of the strongest. I'd advise trying 823s though. Not sure if they do them in 27".
Wide flanges for hubs. The joy of gearbox bikes and/or Boost where it makes a difference. Hope flanges are pretty close together.
Spoke tension gauge is very good asset for strong wheels.

Also flange height. and yes three cross.
As for spoke tension, I'm not real sure if real tight or tight is best for wheel strength.

 

[Flow-Rider]

+1, I found alloy are also easier to round off if you need to true a wheel. Even though I thought brass would be softer material.

I think a fairly safe formula and shopping list is double butted spokes, 3 cross pattern, double cavity or walled welded rim, brass nipples. Tension the wheel properly while building. Lace it to some XT level hubs if you want it to work with no bling. Always take your time when building wheels and don't do it if you are rushed.

A good set of wheels will outlast fickle MTB fashion and 'standards'.
Lace up some 27.5" wheels now and they will last until 28.75" wheels hit he shelves as the next big thing and American Mountain bike magazines tout them as the new saviors of the universe guaranteed to make singletrack 0.05% more fun than the ye olde obsolete 27.5" wheels that weren't ever as good as we told you anyhow :tape2:

I'm pretty sure a lot of people here would swear at you for mentioning XT hubs. I would go for a hub that has at least 4 sealed cartridge bearings on the rear for durability and longer life.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Good design (proven for thousands of years); good components (so many choices); appropriate choice of components based on needs and terrain (we are human so mostly guess work unless the rider is receptive and cognitive of good advice); skilled craftsperson (not so many of them); realistic expectations (most unlikely)...

Personally, my wheels are based on solid quality hubs (Hope, Novatec, White), use conventional builds (32h double or triple cross) and cheap and relatively disposable rims (Alex Evo 23 come to mind but about to try Spank Trail 295 so who am I to judge?)

 

[MARKL]

As for spoke tension, I'm not real sure if real tight or tight is best for wheel strength.

Real 'even' is more important than either. My view is 'tight' is best and probably gives you a more durable wheel in the longer term.

 

[Mr Crudley]

I'm pretty sure a lot of people here would swear at you for mentioning XT hubs. I would go for a hub that has at least 4 sealed cartridge bearings on the rear for durability and longer life.

Maybe so, but he lack of bling and mine have been spinning for almost 10 years with bugger all maintenance yet. I have some Ringle hubs that look great and all but i'd easily bet the XT would outlast them. Loose bearings are fine for hubs.

 

[Exie]

Not that I know much about wheels, but my 0.01c worth:
1. the builder
2. the rider
3. the materials.

I've had a range of rims built with a range of exotic materials and experienced a few failures. IMO the most critical factor was the builder. A good wheel builder will be able to make a decent wheel out of even cheap materials.

That aside, I'd like to think 26" are typically stronger (laterally) than 29", good CF rims dont seem to fold/bend lips like alu does and good hubs tend to rolled smoother than cheap ones.

But my shopping list starts with finding a good builder.

 

[Mr Crudley]

Maybe so, but he lack of bling and mine have been spinning for almost 10 years with bugger all maintenance yet.

Thanks Flow Rider for giving me a virtual push along that I probably needed.

These XT hubs have been spinning for a long time and I don't do axle deep creek crossings or anything - just your standard hardpack & firetrail dustiness over several years. They still spin fine and quietly so I didn't worry about them too much.

Saturday's weather was a bit s%^thouse, so roll on the bit of bike maintenance. I stripped down and lubes the XT hubs finally. A little bit of wear but no pitting on the cones, overall pretty clean and better than I thought. The rubber boots seem to do their job pretty well.

Here is the rear.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Thanks Flow Rider for giving me a virtual push along that I probably needed.

These XT hubs have been spinning for a long time and I don't do axle deep creek crossings or anything - just your standard hardpack & firetrail dustiness over several years. They still spin fine and quietly so I didn't worry about them too much.

Saturday's weather was a bit s%^thouse, so roll on the bit of bike maintenance. I stripped down and lubes the XT hubs finally. A little bit of wear but no pitting on the cones, overall pretty clean and better than I thought. The rubber boots seem to do their job pretty well.

Here is the rear.

Looks like very low Ks, I haven't had many problems from the rear hub but some have known to split the free hub in half. I used my set for 2 years only MTB use of about 400kms even though they were second hand the front wheel was pretty new as the original owner had only recently replaced it. All was good until I decided that I needed wider rims, gave them a wash with the garden hose before storage and went to get them out again later on, only to find the front hub was seized.

 

[Mr Crudley]

Looks like very low Ks, I haven't had many problems from the rear hub but some have known to split the free hub in half.

I'll agree, they had their original grease and looked mint condition internally. I try to respect my bike bits without getting too carried away and all.
They are XT 756's. Now that you mention it, I do remember having a snapped axle on a Deore front hub long ago. Probably due to past owners klutzy landing busting it more than defective axles in fairness. Didn't make any difference until finally pulling the wheel apart and seeing a 'wow, uh oh' moment.

I used my set for 2 years only MTB use of about 400kms even though they were second hand the front wheel was pretty new as the original owner had only recently replaced it.All was good until I decided that I needed wider rims, gave them a wash with the garden hose before storage and went to get them out again later on, only to find the front hub was seized.

That looks pretty messy, the seals let you down. I got lucky I think. I try to give the seals a light spray of WD or another water dispersant before washing and use a low pressure spray when washing the bike. Anyhow, I'm done now with these hubs till 26" comes back in fashion - any day now :yawn:

 

[Flow-Rider]

Anyhow, I'm done now with these hubs till 26" comes back in fashion - any day now :yawn:

26 ain't dead yet :noidea: works fine for me. :friendly_wink:

 

[wkkie]

26 ain't dead yet :noidea: works fine for me. :friendly_wink:

Me too! Actually just had a brand new 26 inch wheel delivered from crc today!

 

[wkkie]

I'll agree, they had their original grease and looked mint condition internally. I try to respect my bike bits without getting too carried away and all.
They are XT 756's. Now that you mention it, I do remember having a snapped axle on a Deore front hub long ago. Probably due to past owners klutzy landing busting it more than defective axles in fairness. Didn't make any difference until finally pulling the wheel apart and seeing a 'wow, uh oh' moment.



That looks pretty messy, the seals let you down. I got lucky I think. I try to give the seals a light spray of WD or another water dispersant before washing and use a low pressure spray when washing the bike. Anyhow, I'm done now with these hubs till 26" comes back in fashion - any day now :yawn:

It all comes back around that's for sure. I was rocking wide rims years before they were the new thing. Good old Alex DX32s...

 

[Boom King]

Me too! Actually just had a brand new 26 inch wheel delivered from crc today!

Me too too. Buying the Zelvys locked me in for some time to come.

 

[wkkie]

Me too too. Buying the Zelvys locked me in for some time to come.

I did look at the Zlevys when I was shopping, I'd love to give them a try, but just wayyyyyyy out of the budget.

Ended up with 2 new wheels, which was the basis of this thread.

For the dually, Mavic 823, 32 hole. Love the fully tubeless!

For the hardtail, Mavic 729, 36 hole. Bit of extra beef for the hardtail. I'll be setting it up tubeless.

 

[Boom King]

I did look at the Zlevys when I was shopping, I'd love to give them a try, but just wayyyyyyy out of the budget.

I got wayyyyyyy lucky.

 

[moorey]

26 ain't dead yet :noidea: works fine for me. :friendly_wink:

Me too! Actually just had a brand new 26 inch wheel delivered from crc today!

Ordered arch mk3 26" on pro4 a few weeks back. Just about to build flow mk3 on pro 2 Evos. Wish someone had told me 26 was dead out: