Whats in a degree?

[treble]

Lately I've been looking at a few different new bikes to see what is out there.
Im looking in the Enduro 160mm/170mm category and the new Canyon Strive looks amazing, especially for the spec you get for the price. My only issue is that is has a 66 degree head angle, where everything else I've looked at (Capra, Enduro, Range) has a 65 degree head angle. My current bike also has 65. I understand the implications of the one extra degree on paper, but how different/noticeable would it actually be?
Will one degree over the length of a 170mm fork make such a huge difference that it would be noticeably different over the other bikes on offer?

 

[Oddjob]

Not very. You would see a one degree change in angle due to temperature or weight changes impacting your sag on the rear shock. I.e. a full vs empty camelbak or rearshock temp at the end of a long descent.

If you did notice it that much (unlikely) you could get an angled headset to compensate.

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[JTmofo]

I had a 160mm rig with 65.5 Deg HA and swapped for a 140mm with 67 deg HA.
HUGE difference in comparison between the 2. There's also more to consider than HA alone. Seat tube angle, reach, ETT ect will all have an effect on how it feels.

Strive will be a killer bike, I have a Spectral with a coil and it's "big" enough for most situations in an Enduro scenario.

Many.....many... many people are being sucked in and finding themselves over-biked.

Recently rode a 29 Norco Range C at a demo day (granted at an XC trail) and it was a dog. It descended like a rabid animal.... but the compromise in climbing took too much out of the enjoyment.

So to answer your original question.... you may find yourself better off.

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[Staunch]

Not very. You would see a one degree change in angle due to temperature or weight changes impacting your sag on the rear shock. I.e. a full vs empty camelbak or rearshock temp at the end of a long descent.

Pretty much this. Also changes depending on the amount of sag/progression your fork has.

If you're worried about it from a riding perspective in terms of tackling the more gnarly stuff, I have a Strive and don't think it matters at all. I actually wanted the steeper HA as I didn't need a full descending rig as that's what my DH bike is for, but saying that I'd ridden a bit of DH lately on it and haven't struggled with the stability of the bike.

In short, if you want an Enduro bike it's sick, if you want a long travel bike that'll handle DH all day that that you can also kinda pedal, a Nomad or something would probably be more up your alley.

 

[Nautonier]

I think it has a lot to with the wheelbase and reach of the bike. I rode a GT Sanction earlier this year in Finale Ligure and was worried that the 66 degree HA coming off 65 wouldn't cut in. Turns out it was fine, it didn't feel 'steeper' at all and those tracks are pretty full-on. I wouldn't want a short reach bike in 66 though, I reckon you would notice that. The Canyon is a long bike, so I think as long as the reach is slightly longer than what you're used to, it will compensate for the steeper HA.

The only thing that shits me about the Strive is that they're really vague about whether or not it will take a 170mm Lyrik. When I was thinking of buying one I was told that the 170 Lyrik was too long and would void the warranty, then I saw some EWS racer putting a 180 Lyrik on his ... And they spec the top model with a 170mm Fox fork, so I'm confused...

Agree with Mofo that a lot of people are over-biked, but if you've sold your DH bike to buy an enduro bike, you want it to be pretty capable. And for everything else there's the 125mm bike in your quiver

 

[treble]

Thanks guys. Most of the other bikes I'm looking at have similar Geo, just the extra one degree on the Strive. Sounds like its no reason to strike it off the list though.

Recently rode a 29 Norco Range C at a demo day (granted at an XC trail) and it was a dog. It descended like a rabid animal.... but the compromise in climbing took too much out of the enjoyment.

At Lysterfield? I rode that thing too. I was exactly the opposite, I couldn't believe how well it climbed compared to my current bike ( my current bike is essentially a mini DH bike though) That GX Eagle is amazing!

 

[JTmofo]

Thanks guys. Most of the other bikes I'm looking at have similar Geo, just the extra one degree on the Strive. Sounds like its no reason to strike it off the list though.



At Lysterfield? I rode that thing too. I was exactly the opposite, I couldn't believe how well it climbed compared to my current bike ( my current bike is essentially a mini DH bike though) That GX Eagle is amazing!

Nope.... Wylde in Sydney.
For me, the drivetrain doesn't make up for the geo of the bike.
Saying that.... I rode it in a less than ideal scenario. It didn't do the bike justice..... but still found it was more cumbersome than I could live with on the flat to climbs.
All relative to what you're used to i suppose.....

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[stirk]

Recently rode a 29 Norco Range C at a demo day (granted at an XC trail) and it was a dog. It descended like a rabid animal.... but the compromise in climbing took too much out of the enjoyment.

It's all about the down, suck it up on the slow smooth climb, tech bloody hard goat style climb up rocks and roots a slack bike is better I think.

 

[JTmofo]

It's all about the down, suck it up on the slow smooth climb, tech bloody hard goat style climb up rocks and roots a slack bike is better I think.

Yeah.... nah.
My saddle time is limited.... I need to enjoy every ounce that I can.
Best thing I ever did was ditch the $10k+ "Enduro" bike for my $5k trail bike.....

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[born-again-biker]

Yeah.... nah.
My saddle time is limited.... I need to enjoy every ounce that I can.
Best thing I ever did was ditch the $10k+ "Enduro" bike for my $5k trail bike.....

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Semi off topic hijack: A mate is seriously considering the spectral & doesn't have the budget/time for a bad choice.
Has your second frame held up since initial trouble?


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[JTmofo]

Semi off topic hijack: A mate is seriously considering the spectral & doesn't have the budget/time for a bad choice.
Has your second frame held up since initial trouble?


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I couldn't be happier. Zero issues but I've been checking Pivot bolts regularly.
I've had to dump the Reverb (coz they're absolute junk) and I've stuck a cc coil il in it.
It's epic..... Yeti/santa Cruz (insert any overpriced brand here) can go fuck themselves....



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[Ultra Lord]

I think the problem here is wylde not the norco, my scout feels cunbersome and awkward around there too.
No trail has made me want to ride a 29xc hardtail, except wylde.

 

[JTmofo]

I think the problem here is wylde not the norco, my scout feels cunbersome and awkward around there too.
No trail has made me want to ride a 29xc hardtail, except wylde.

This is true.

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[teK--]

Rather than focus on one metric in the frame geometry suggest looking at the whole bike as a package. As mentioned above, the amount of sag you have, or your body position, steepness of terrain etc will all affect effective head angle.

 

[dh1]

Not very. You would see a one degree change in angle due to temperature or weight changes impacting your sag on the rear shock. I.e. a full vs empty camelbak or rearshock temp at the end of a long descent.

If you did notice it that much (unlikely) you could get an angled headset to compensate.

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This is true but not exactly applicable - 2 bikes, 1 with 65 degree. 1 with 66degree. Ride them down the same track, same amount of water in the camelbak, assume the rear shock temps are there abouts the same then there will still be a 1 degree difference I head angle.

A 1 degree change in the headangle on the same bike (ile installing an angle set on your current bike) and there will be a noticeable difference. But if you buy a new bike which has all new/different geometry you probably won't be able to pick exactly what frame geo makes the bike feel different as it is all different.

 

[born-again-biker]

I couldn't be happier. Zero issues but I've been checking Pivot bolts regularly.
I've had to dump the Reverb (coz they're absolute junk) and I've stuck a cc coil il in it.
It's epic..... Yeti/santa Cruz (insert any overpriced brand here) can go fuck themselves....



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Cool! Thanks for the info - will pass it on.

 

[tasty.dirt74]

Im looking in the Enduro 160mm/170mm category and the new Canyon Strive looks amazing,
Will one degree over the length of a 170mm fork make such a huge difference that it would be noticeably different over the other bikes on offer?

Strive will be a killer bike, I have a Spectral with a coil and it's "big" enough for most situations in an Enduro scenario.
Many.....many... many people are being sucked in and finding themselves over-biked.

Sigh, these days when talking that much travel, its still meant to be pedalled up... I have enough problem clearing techy hairpins climbing on a 130 mm bike!! How difficult is it to climb on a 170mm bike..
Really?

That amount of travel would be awesome on the descents..

 

[Oddjob]

This is true but not exactly applicable - 2 bikes, 1 with 65 degree. 1 with 66degree. Ride them down the same track, same amount of water in the camelbak, assume the rear shock temps are there abouts the same then there will still be a 1 degree difference I head angle.

A 1 degree change in the headangle on the same bike (ile installing an angle set on your current bike) and there will be a noticeable difference. But if you buy a new bike which has all new/different geometry you probably won't be able to pick exactly what frame geo makes the bike feel different as it is all different.

Thats my point. If you would struggle to notice the difference on the same bike, it's unlikely to really be noticed between different bikes.

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[treble]

Rather than focus on one metric in the frame geometry suggest looking at the whole bike as a package. As mentioned above, the amount of sag you have, or your body position, steepness of terrain etc will all affect effective head angle.

Yeah, I've been comparing the bikes as a whole, the Strive just stood out from the others in that one area. Sounds like 1 degree difference would be next to un-noticeable and proper bike set up would make a bigger difference.

 

[halfstroke]

Yeah, I've been comparing the bikes as a whole, the Strive just stood out from the others in that one area. Sounds like 1 degree difference would be next to un-noticeable and proper bike set up would make a bigger difference.

Bike and suspension set up make a world of difference, I also rode the Norco range 29er:yuck: at a Demo day. I rode the range back to back with my alloy sight (has DVO fork/Cane creek coil inline dialed.) and as good as the range (would have been better without the wagon wheels) was i felt i had more control and a similar level of stability descending on my bike despite its shorter wheelbase, less travel and less aggressive geometry.