Sorry Jane - not correct. Lysterfield is classied under Parks Victoria authority and, if you read the link I provided, you will find that ALL PV sites require one of two types of permit for ANY photo that is published.
When is it too wet?
- Thread starter Mad Hatter
- Start date
mtba
I was under the impression that to be a MTBA event you require a MTBA commisionary to sign off on the course
http://mtba.asn.au/cms/uploads/policies/organisationguide06.pdf
page 11 and 14
obviously this either isn't happening or they are not interested in sustainability, it would be an obvious opportunity.
I was under the impression that to be a MTBA event you require a MTBA commisionary to sign off on the course
http://mtba.asn.au/cms/uploads/policies/organisationguide06.pdf
page 11 and 14
obviously this either isn't happening or they are not interested in sustainability, it would be an obvious opportunity.
well someone had better let our Legal team at NewsLimited know, they do look into this stuff, and yes, out of curtesy I can tell them I am there shooting, but I don'nt have to. ParksVic can get a little precious on their version of the law, but as I said, our legal people make sure we know rules on were we can take pics. I have never, nor would I ever ask permission of Parks when doing photo shoots at lysty ( I have done several for our publications) anyway, this is not really the issue. I thought this was about how crap the tracks are getting at lysty with all the traffic on them...lets get back to that.
hungrytiger
Likes Dirt
Yes, no more about the photography - please start a new a thread, its a different topic.
Martin,
Not negative - lets say 'Devils Advocate'. The problem with a lot of the proposal (best word for them) is assuming that there is some 'controlling body' for MTB events that can wield and use a stick. Sadly, this isn't the case. I think the best words would be 'toohless tiger'. The only thing MTBA are contributing to current events is an insurance cover, but as I said, there are numerous promoters offering alternative insurance.
My background - motor racing - is such that ANY competitor can turn up at an event and, provided they are licenced by CAMS or AASA, they are covered by insurance for the event they are entered in. They also have the right to inspect the insurance policy to see exactly what they are covered for. What do you think the outcome would be if a rider did this at a MTB event? Some would probably point you to the MTBA web site; others *may* give you the name of the insurer; and some would say 'Insurance? What insurance?'
Sustainable trails - I note the examples you give are from overseas - the problem here in AUstralia is that look at the current management of public lands used for the majority of MTB events. Many of these venues aren't even allowed to burn off during cooler seasons because of local policies and (here in Vic at least) DSE 'over-management' (that is when DSE don't conduct a burn off that gets out of control such as WIlson Prom!).
One weekend a month - I am suggesting that such a periodicity is too much - with the number of events currently competing for calendar space, a more serious proposal would be once or twice annually as compulsory 'clear days' and then 'volunteer days' when a venue is available. BUT - again - the problem here is that there is no controlling body that could enforce this. Look at MTBA this year deciding to move National Series dates to a date that had already been 'reserved' for a State race - no consultaiton, no 'how about we work together on this' - and this is the (supposed) national MTB authority! But then - like this Saturdays planned Lysterfield 'work day' - WHY plan it the day before a State Enduro Series Round which has always been promoted as a two day event? Sorry, sheer stupidity IMHO - the very people they want will be getting ready, travelling or already be in Castlemaine. The very people you want involved.
Don't Ride policy - yes, could work - but again it needs a clearly defined authority within the sport. (No disrespect meant to FGP by this comment) but FGP are a commercial, private promoter who have a different outlook to, say, GMBC, Fatties or any other club. This isn't to say FGP would stop an event (they have stopped them short before and will possibly do so again if warranted in the future), but doing so (stoppig, cancelling or postponing) is not something that can be done lightly or on the spur-of-the-moment.
Point 12 - what would I suggest? (At the risk of offending some of the clubs here) - MTB needs a multi-tier body looking after it. There are curently no state level bodies - MTBA is (as it should be) concerned with National and International level eventss/processes. Ther is a web site called MTBVic - but this has no real standing other than a web site. There is no business name registered under MTBVic or any derivatives (there is a Tas name registered, the SA and NSW names have all been deregistered). Whilst many believe they are a state representative, in reality, they have no standing.
Motor Sport went through this building process many years ago - a National body, then State bodies - the National handle national and international issues, licences, track licensing and insurance. State bodies issued permits for events and handled local issues (insurance claims etc), State Series and Championships and formation of annual calendars to ensure everyoe potentially got the event they wanted without clashes. They also liase with local and state government bodies to ensure problems, such as this (trail damage) are co-ordinated and handled properly.
This approach, I know, would not suit a couple of the clubs currently running events, but something needs to be done soon otherwise the state (and even local) governments are going to step in and force control over the sport - and no one wants that.
Not negative - lets say 'Devils Advocate'. The problem with a lot of the proposal (best word for them) is assuming that there is some 'controlling body' for MTB events that can wield and use a stick. Sadly, this isn't the case. I think the best words would be 'toohless tiger'. The only thing MTBA are contributing to current events is an insurance cover, but as I said, there are numerous promoters offering alternative insurance.
My background - motor racing - is such that ANY competitor can turn up at an event and, provided they are licenced by CAMS or AASA, they are covered by insurance for the event they are entered in. They also have the right to inspect the insurance policy to see exactly what they are covered for. What do you think the outcome would be if a rider did this at a MTB event? Some would probably point you to the MTBA web site; others *may* give you the name of the insurer; and some would say 'Insurance? What insurance?'
Sustainable trails - I note the examples you give are from overseas - the problem here in AUstralia is that look at the current management of public lands used for the majority of MTB events. Many of these venues aren't even allowed to burn off during cooler seasons because of local policies and (here in Vic at least) DSE 'over-management' (that is when DSE don't conduct a burn off that gets out of control such as WIlson Prom!).
One weekend a month - I am suggesting that such a periodicity is too much - with the number of events currently competing for calendar space, a more serious proposal would be once or twice annually as compulsory 'clear days' and then 'volunteer days' when a venue is available. BUT - again - the problem here is that there is no controlling body that could enforce this. Look at MTBA this year deciding to move National Series dates to a date that had already been 'reserved' for a State race - no consultaiton, no 'how about we work together on this' - and this is the (supposed) national MTB authority! But then - like this Saturdays planned Lysterfield 'work day' - WHY plan it the day before a State Enduro Series Round which has always been promoted as a two day event? Sorry, sheer stupidity IMHO - the very people they want will be getting ready, travelling or already be in Castlemaine. The very people you want involved.
Don't Ride policy - yes, could work - but again it needs a clearly defined authority within the sport. (No disrespect meant to FGP by this comment) but FGP are a commercial, private promoter who have a different outlook to, say, GMBC, Fatties or any other club. This isn't to say FGP would stop an event (they have stopped them short before and will possibly do so again if warranted in the future), but doing so (stoppig, cancelling or postponing) is not something that can be done lightly or on the spur-of-the-moment.
Point 12 - what would I suggest? (At the risk of offending some of the clubs here) - MTB needs a multi-tier body looking after it. There are curently no state level bodies - MTBA is (as it should be) concerned with National and International level eventss/processes. Ther is a web site called MTBVic - but this has no real standing other than a web site. There is no business name registered under MTBVic or any derivatives (there is a Tas name registered, the SA and NSW names have all been deregistered). Whilst many believe they are a state representative, in reality, they have no standing.
Motor Sport went through this building process many years ago - a National body, then State bodies - the National handle national and international issues, licences, track licensing and insurance. State bodies issued permits for events and handled local issues (insurance claims etc), State Series and Championships and formation of annual calendars to ensure everyoe potentially got the event they wanted without clashes. They also liase with local and state government bodies to ensure problems, such as this (trail damage) are co-ordinated and handled properly.
This approach, I know, would not suit a couple of the clubs currently running events, but something needs to be done soon otherwise the state (and even local) governments are going to step in and force control over the sport - and no one wants that.
LDTR had spent quite some time trying to fit in around the calender, but i can tell you it is nearly impossible, we have the dates for the next 3 months up on our website ( i would be interested to know if these clash with any others) , these dates have been selected to try to fit in with the racers, but i biggest consern was to fit in with the regular crew that turn up to every one.
If we did only 1 or 2 a year we would get nothing done... i would be stoked if 30% of riders did 1 or 2 trail days a year to there local trails, it would be an improvement.
As I said before - the calendar is already so packed that finding any day is getting to be nearly impossible. Again IMHO picking a day that is holding an event that will most likely be catering for the majority of people you want to target is a mistake. But thats only my opinion.
As for clashing with other dates - have you checked the already published calendars for the State Series? (or are you expecting them to check your dates??)
As for clashing with other dates - have you checked the already published calendars for the State Series? (or are you expecting them to check your dates??)
martinpb
Likes Dirt
jakecycles
Likes Bikes
VVC AWABA 10 HOUR ...How to handle a washout.
Bit more of an update. 04. 06 .2010
We have had to make the call earlier than expected. After spending the past hour checking the forecasts, we are not comfortable proceeding. The BOM is saying anything from 15-50mm of rain tomorrow for the Newcastle region.
Even if there are only light showers tomorrow, we prefer not to run the event and prevent any damaged to the trails such wet conditions cause. We are also sure you’d all prefer not to destroy several hundred dollars of dirvetrain and brake parts.
ALL entries will automatically be transferred to the August 21st VVC. For those that can not transfer, please notify us immediately and we will issued a full refund.
Hunter Mountainbike Association
Twenty Six Inches.com
Glenrock Trail Alliance
As much as I hate all things NSW, this thread has in a short time thrown up two fine examples of where the race director of each event has initiated a contingency plan, in the situation of exceptional circumstances. It is the role of the RD or the Race Promoter to take into consideration the welfare of both competitors, volunteers/staff, the environment( aka.. trails and the event staging area ) and the reputation of the event itself going fowards. Right now I am keeping one eye on the forecast and the other out on the course for the Castlemaine Enduro. Today there is a chance that up 10- 20 mm of rain will fall in our area. I am very confidant that our track can handle 200-300 competitors racing around it for 6 hours after such rainfall. It was built with winter riding in mind. If the weather forecast was to worsen considerbly we would undertake review on wether to run the event or to cancel or postpone ( for a small club it would come at considerable cost ). We will inspect our venue tommorow and make that call. To program a race to winter, there should be a high degree of confidence that under " average " conditions for that time of the year both the track and the venue are sustainable.
Rockyriders MTB Club.
Bit more of an update. 04. 06 .2010
We have had to make the call earlier than expected. After spending the past hour checking the forecasts, we are not comfortable proceeding. The BOM is saying anything from 15-50mm of rain tomorrow for the Newcastle region.
Even if there are only light showers tomorrow, we prefer not to run the event and prevent any damaged to the trails such wet conditions cause. We are also sure you’d all prefer not to destroy several hundred dollars of dirvetrain and brake parts.
ALL entries will automatically be transferred to the August 21st VVC. For those that can not transfer, please notify us immediately and we will issued a full refund.
Hunter Mountainbike Association
Twenty Six Inches.com
Glenrock Trail Alliance
As much as I hate all things NSW, this thread has in a short time thrown up two fine examples of where the race director of each event has initiated a contingency plan, in the situation of exceptional circumstances. It is the role of the RD or the Race Promoter to take into consideration the welfare of both competitors, volunteers/staff, the environment( aka.. trails and the event staging area ) and the reputation of the event itself going fowards. Right now I am keeping one eye on the forecast and the other out on the course for the Castlemaine Enduro. Today there is a chance that up 10- 20 mm of rain will fall in our area. I am very confidant that our track can handle 200-300 competitors racing around it for 6 hours after such rainfall. It was built with winter riding in mind. If the weather forecast was to worsen considerbly we would undertake review on wether to run the event or to cancel or postpone ( for a small club it would come at considerable cost ). We will inspect our venue tommorow and make that call. To program a race to winter, there should be a high degree of confidence that under " average " conditions for that time of the year both the track and the venue are sustainable.
Rockyriders MTB Club.
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martinpb
Likes Dirt
18th Sept - Clash with single speed urban epic social ride
16th Oct - Clash with SA MTBO championships (and i can tell you exactly how many MTB racers will be at that one ;-)
13th Nov - No other event on MTBV at the moment
fergo
Likes Dirt
Wombat
At our last club meeting, we discussed to possibilty of closing the Wombat Track for two months June/July or July/Aug to protect it as it doesn't handle the wet very well. Clay soil doesn't drain well. Our club rides stay away from the Wombat Track in winter.
While it's public land, we have to maintain it at our club costs. We would put up signs saying it was closed and "hope" people respect it.
Our worst damage comes from moto's, not bike riders.
At our last club meeting, we discussed to possibilty of closing the Wombat Track for two months June/July or July/Aug to protect it as it doesn't handle the wet very well. Clay soil doesn't drain well. Our club rides stay away from the Wombat Track in winter.
While it's public land, we have to maintain it at our club costs. We would put up signs saying it was closed and "hope" people respect it.
Our worst damage comes from moto's, not bike riders.
I too destroyed a drivetrain and 2 sets of brake pads in May!I can confirm many of the Capital Punishment tracks are better than they were before the event now
I was riding in Canberra last weekend and much of Majura Pines is still showing the effects of that many riders running through in those conditions (didn't ride at Kowen so can't comment on that). Certainly not the smooth Majura pines I'd ridden prior to the event.
Stromlo on the other hand - totally different story as it drains well and seems to weather the rain a lot better.
In regards to the dates LTDR has selected for trailbuilding. You can not keep everyone happy. We dont mind if we clash with interstate events as we are more concerned about events close to lysterfield as most people that turn up are from the area and tend to do events around the area. We had checked the MTBV calendars before we decided on our dates, so its not LTDR fault if new events come up.martinpb said:
At the end of the day, if you can be a$$ed to ride at lyst you should be a$$ed to help out for a few hrs at a working bee. If you cant make it this time you can make it next time as there is ample working bee's coming up. No excuse!
Castlemaine isn't a new event - it has been on this date on the calendar all year! And this actually comes back to a previous point - MTBV do not carry the dates for all events in VIC - there needs to be a better facility for advertising events.
Guilt trips are the quickest way to turn people off from offering help and support.
martinpb
Likes Dirt
My point was that the bulding days don't clash with anything that most Melbourne riders will want to attend. Personally i feel you should have these dates plastered all over rotorburn, FGP and MTBV. I'd also point out that the build days don't clash with any races, so people will commit to coming (hopefully) Hand out flyers at the next CTS and at the wednesday crits; and be prepared to tell people what work is needed to be done.
Shouldn't have any problems for Sept, can't make October (there's a reason i know how many racers will be in SA ;-) and November is looking good too.
Martin
PS another wild idea - get people to donate $20/50 as a depost against coming to the build day. if they come, they get the money back, otherwise they agree that it goes to the building funds (sort of like getting people to register in advance for a race)
someone also mentioned getting the local shops to donate spot prizes to be handed out to the builders (i've also come across a system where over time you build up entries for the draw of a bike - is it worth 12 x 3 hours for 1/100 chance of walking away with a nice new steed (made up figures))
hungrytiger
Likes Dirt
Mate just suck it up and come and give us a hand, we all like MTBing , you will have a laugh and help us get Lysterfield back in the right direction
. I would much rather debate with you about whether we have a berm here or a log ride there than this stuff on an anonymous forum. Its a shame that all these threads about the way FGP handles lysterfield always go the same way. Theres local riders, LDTR members, other Australian MTB clubs, trail builders and even people who raced CTS suggesting that you should change your approach and offering suggestions, but you and akashra are the only ones defending the status quo to the hilt. Just take a step back and ponder why there are not threads like this for any other trails on rotorburn? We are not saying there should be no racing at Lysterfield, its just that you would look a lot better in the eyes of all these people if you took some of these comments on board.
Martin - LDTR has only been around for 8 months and half of what you said is being done or going to take place soon ie.. flyers and so on. This all takes time to sort out and cost money. This is why LTDR needs as many paid members to back them and come to wokring bee's
serowe - what I said wasn’t to make people feel guilty, but if you are guilty about what I said... well that’s not my fault. I'm just saying it as it is.
hungrytiger - I understand your frustration, but a lot of people do see both sides of the issue and are just telling it how it is. It is a very complex issue when you have government bodies and cash to be made in the mix.
serowe - what I said wasn’t to make people feel guilty, but if you are guilty about what I said... well that’s not my fault. I'm just saying it as it is.
hungrytiger - I understand your frustration, but a lot of people do see both sides of the issue and are just telling it how it is. It is a very complex issue when you have government bodies and cash to be made in the mix.
thelankyman
Likes Dirt
I guess that is a different situation as the track is on private land. The landowner and club can make whatever decision they feel is in their best interest as the track is not open to the public. I wouldn't have a problem racing on private tracks, it is that CTS was held on public tracks that are slowly getting built/repaired by volunteers. Tha said my drivetrain wouldnt appreciate it.
Does anyone know how much rain we got at CTS3?
