Who did you build with, and why them?

[Sethius]

With all the chat in the passive energy topic, quiet a few of you have built which got me thinking. Who did you build with, why did you choose them and what were the 3 biggest factors for choosing them?

I have a feeling most of you may of been owner-builders!

Full disclaimer: working for a builder, not looking to dis/recommend, just wanting to learn!

 

[moorey]

Local guy (Tim Williams). Everyone else we approached, recommended him for the job, and no one else would touch it anyway.
We started working with specialist strawbale (Huff’n’Puff construction) to manage whole job, but went with Tim, and they subcontracted.

 

[Freediver]

I've done most of mine myself, even some that you're not supposed to but there was a few bits I needed a hand with. I used a mate that started out as a shipwright. Where most builders are happy with tolerances of a couple of mm, shipwrights are used to making things tighter than that so they don't leak.
Join the queue if you need him, it's a long one.

 

[Haakon]

Local guy (Tim Williams). Everyone else we approached, recommended him for the job, and no one else would touch it anyway.
We started working with specialist strawbale (Huff’n’Puff construction) to manage whole job, but went with Tim, and they subcontracted.

I should probably get some more details about that - I am likely to be building in Castlemaine in the next year or two. Something not involving a mcmansion and requiring some attention to detail.

 

[Calvin27]

I've done volume builder, tier 2 volume builder, owner build and back to a tier 1 volume builder (family home, in laws house, investment subdivision and my own home respectively). In the end they are just much cheaper and faster - timing being the more critical factor.

The hardest part with owner building is the builder. Never mind a quality builder, you will struggle to find one that finishes the job without ditching the project at the 80% mark. Honestly, unless you really need a custom house design for whatever reason, a volume builder is easier and cheaper for the average punter.

 

[Freediver]

Volume builders are in general pretty shit from what I've seen. Cheap materials, not waiting for slabs to cure properly, waffle slabs that heave, renders that crack, and buildings that stink of plastic and chemicals when they are finished. No thanks.

 

[hifiandmtb]

I've not seen a volume home that has impressive build values. Honestly, you see the shittyness when driving past at 60 kays an hour!

Everything from using 70-35 timber to crap flashing to lowest common denominator house wrap.

 

[Haakon]

Ive been watching a bunch of volume builder jobs go in lately (on mr fluffy blocks, mostly vile townhouse jobs) and the "workmanship" is horrifying... Matchsticks and glue and crappy cladding thrown together by complete rednecks...

 

[redbruce]

Redbruce junior is a sparky and I get 1st hand the inside shameful tales of volume builders (he's got some good ones from 'The Block" series too).

He takes pride in his work and customer outcomes. Reason why he primarily does commercial and industrial (and some challenging bespoke builder) work. Also not perfect but not soul destroying like volume building industry.

 

[Flow-Rider]

You get what you pay for normally and that's all there is too it. If you take a close look at the construction of houses these days and compare them to ones from the 70's you'll see that later is not meant to last. Ask a builder what it costs to build a double brick cavity home with hardwood roof trusses these days, the cost is phenomenal.

 

[Flow-Rider]

I've done volume builder, tier 2 volume builder, owner build and back to a tier 1 volume builder (family home, in laws house, investment subdivision and my own home respectively). In the end they are just much cheaper and faster - timing being the more critical factor.

The hardest part with owner building is the builder. Never mind a quality builder, you will struggle to find one that finishes the job without ditching the project at the 80% mark. Honestly, unless you really need a custom house design for whatever reason, a volume builder is easier and cheaper for the average punter.

I've had one house built from a volume builder and the funny thing was that everything was really good until the last stages of the home. The house was finished off horribly but the core of the house was excellent, I checked with a carpenter mate, all the nogging was done right in the walls without using ratty pine with heaps of knots and roof trusses were square and strong looking. I had a look at other peoples homes in the areas while being built it was not the case.

 

[Calvin27]

He takes pride in his work and customer outcomes. Reason why he primarily does commercial and industrial (and some challenging bespoke builder) work. Also not perfect but not soul destroying like volume building industry.

This is exactly what I mean - all the decent trades are in the commercial space. I agree volume builds are crap, but on aggregate small/medium builders are worse on aggregate. Sure, everyone hears stories of good builders, but good luck getting them in the first place and that's if you can afford the premium. The information I have on hand suggests that (at least at an environmental compliance level - insulation, sarking, sealing etc.) that smaller builders are at least an order of magnitude poorer workmanship than volume builders. My personal experience says smaller builders generally do not meet timelines.

 

[born-again-biker]

My old man has run his own residential construction business for over 40 years. He specialises in bespoke, high - end renovations and builds for those who don't really care what it costs.
His clients often spend over 2 million just to modify their existing homes and holiday homes etc etc.
He has built or renovated some of the most beautiful houses in Sydney... and won industry awards.
He has worked with/for some big name architects too.

Why am I telling you all this?

Because you would think he would be the first person to criticise the volume/project home industry.... But he is actually very positive about that part of the industry these days. He will tell anyone who will listen that a well chosen project home is great vfm and many are built to a decent standard.
He actually thinks custom building, for Joe Average, is crazy.

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[Haakon]

Because you would think he would be the first person to criticise the volume/project home industry.... But he is actually very positive about that part of the industry these days. He will tell anyone who will listen that a well chosen project home is great vfm and many are built to a decent standard.
He actually thinks custom building, for Joe Average, is crazy.

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That's an interesting take. I guess the really short answer to the question of what is better is "it depends..."

Long term I have it my head to build a poured concrete brutalist thing, an idea I suspect will change once the cost reality sinks in... But whatever it ends up being it wont be something a volume builder will do.

 

[Calvin27]

Long term I have it my head to build a poured concrete brutalist thing, an idea I suspect will change once the cost reality sinks in... But whatever it ends up being it wont be something a volume builder will do.

If you are already conceding to costs now, you will likely end up going volume. To put into perspective, my owner build cost about $80k less than my volume build after adjusting for size. However the build took 2 years vs 7 months for and who knows how many weekends and weekdays I've had to commit to making sure it gets done properly. A lot of the tradies wouldn't even turn up and a lot of them would do 80% then not bother finishing the rest. You can pay someone to project manage it, but ultimately that itself is a risk and notwithstanding it also costs. You can also get a builder to quote and build the whole thing - but then that's the same basket as volume builder imo.

 

[born-again-biker]

....You can also get a builder to quote and build the whole thing - but then that's the same basket as volume builder imo.

All else being equal (or in theory) a small independent builder with a good track record and a decent care factor "should" give you a better built, semi-bespoke house than a volume/project corporation....
But forget about total cost comparisons... not even close.

The other inconvenient truth is that the half-baked owner - builder arrangement is prone to shit fights, failures, lawyers, dramas etc. Because the boundaries between well intentioned owner looking to save money, and professional who wants to do his job for a price and get on with the next one, are not clearly defined at the start.

It's better to hire a professional and let him/her do what he/she does best for a fair price.
Or build everything yourself if you have the skills and understand the laws.
But tradies hate nothing more than an owner trying to play "project manager / builder" and making the wrong decisions.


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[Calvin27]

All else being equal (or in theory) a small independent builder with a good track record and a decent care factor "should" give you a better built, semi-bespoke house than a volume/project corporation....
But forget about total cost comparisons... not even close.

The problem is averages. On aggregate everyone claims they know someone who knows someone, but if you are not paying top dollar for them then you really have to ask questions why said builder cannot charge a premium and/or doesn't have a backlog of work.

The other inconvenient truth is that the half-baked owner - builder arrangement is prone to shit fights, failures, lawyers, dramas etc. Because the boundaries between well intentioned owner looking to save money, and professional who wants to do his job for a price and get on with the next one, are not clearly defined at the start.

My owner build went to VCAT twice and police once. On two occasions I claimed incomplete jobs were next to useless to me and for total reimbursement - won both and the tradies didn't even turn up. Turns out it is a very convoluted process to seek payment even after VCAT - thankfully my other half is not just the minister of war and finance for no good reason. The third dude basically threatened to kill me (concreter haha).

 

[Sethius]

I've done volume builder, tier 2 volume builder, owner build and back to a tier 1 volume builder (family home, in laws house, investment subdivision and my own home respectively). In the end they are just much cheaper and faster - timing being the more critical factor.

The hardest part with owner building is the builder. Never mind a quality builder, you will struggle to find one that finishes the job without ditching the project at the 80% mark. Honestly, unless you really need a custom house design for whatever reason, a volume builder is easier and cheaper for the average punter.

Did you go back to the same tier 1 builder or it's competitor for the last one? If so, why the change? Considering discounts etc.

 

[Sethius]

That's an interesting take. I guess the really short answer to the question of what is better is "it depends..."

Long term I have it my head to build a poured concrete brutalist thing, an idea I suspect will change once the cost reality sinks in... But whatever it ends up being it wont be something a volume builder will do.

Maybe worth getting it drawn up and put to tender? Depends how much you really want it. Some of the semi custom guys are fairly quiet..

 

[Calvin27]

Did you go back to the same tier 1 builder or it's competitor for the last one? If so, why the change? Considering discounts etc.

Different builder. The main consideration was price/floorplan that was closest to what I wanted. But prior to that I had a good idea of which volume builders to avoid. For example google waffle pod issues and you'll almost immediately find one volume builder that you'd strike off the list. People's homes are their life and generally they get very vocal about shitty jobs - you can find out which are bad with a google search.