Who is right, who is wrong

Jaredp

Likes Dirt
If it were me.......No sale has occurred until goods and money exchange (law).

Go to the shop, pick a bike of equal or more value and walk out. Or he gives a refund on the spot.......

I wouldnt take crap from a goat like this........
Do not do this...

There is no state in Australia you won't get arrested for theft.

Go to consumer protection explain the story and take their advice on the next plan of action.
 

Kramer

FoBR
+1 for consumer affairs

Give them a call, they will explain your options. Then go back to the store and tell them you have spoken with CA, and they should be a bit more responsive. The last thing your LBS wants is to have CA demanding formal responses to their enquiries.
 

SF Trailboy

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Wow - what a bummer, know how excited you where about getting your deal.

Interstingly the LBS experiment has been a massive fail, so does this mean that you will be seriously considering the polygon again?

This perhaps is a bit of heads up to all the LBS boys who read this site as to why customers are leaving in droves.

This is simple stuff, which effective communication and processes should ensure does not happen. Look at retail around the world, we lack with customer service and without it, the LBS's have nothing.
 

cameron_15

Eats Squid
Wow - what a bummer, know how excited you where about getting your deal.

Interstingly the LBS experiment has been a massive fail, so does this mean that you will be seriously considering the polygon again?

This perhaps is a bit of heads up to all the LBS boys who read this site as to why customers are leaving in droves.

This is simple stuff, which effective communication and processes should ensure does not happen. Look at retail around the world, we lack with customer service and without it, the LBS's have nothing.
Wait, you think this is a common occurrence?

Something isn't adding up. I simply can't get my head around why the owner would refuse to sell OP a different bike and refuse to offer a refund when it appears, From the knowledge OP has shared with us, he cannot get the original bike.

The damage has been done though. Definitely get your money back and find a new bike shop.
 

rotorub

Likes Dirt
I know a store in that area who has a fairly bad reputation. For some radon while reading I wouldn't be surprised if it was that store.

hmm.... I think I know the store you are talking about bad reputation indeed due. Sounds like store owner needs some serious anger management counselling or some serious after sales service training!
 

Melony

Likes Bikes
Conclusion to narsty sarga
Yesterday after a trip back to the store with police, the salesman/store owner agreed to pay refund of 80% of the amount. Store owner tells police that is all he has in bank, polic offered store owner for me to take a bike to the sale value but that was refused by the store unknown why. After a discussion with police I agreed to the refund.

The store is located in northern nsw.

Thanks all for you input.
 

wilddemon

Likes Dirt
Conclusion to narsty sarga
Yesterday after a trip back to the store with police, the salesman/store owner agreed to pay refund of 80% of the amount. Store owner tells police that is all he has in bank, polic offered store owner for me to take a bike to the sale value but that was refused by the store unknown why. After a discussion with police I agreed to the refund.

The store is located in northern nsw.

Thanks all for you input.
That's better than nothing. But does that mean you are kissing the other 20% goodbye? If the guy has such a big ego I'll wager he won't be knocking down your door to hand over the last of it. Fair trading is the go.
 

ChopSticks

Banned
I sure hope that's not all the money you're gonna see

i would've demand 100% nothing less.... How much in total did you pay for the giant?
 

SF Trailboy

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Wait, you think this is a common occurrence?

Something isn't adding up. I simply can't get my head around why the owner would refuse to sell OP a different bike and refuse to offer a refund when it appears, From the knowledge OP has shared with us, he cannot get the original bike.

The damage has been done though. Definitely get your money back and find a new bike shop.
No I dont think this is a 'common occurrence' my reference is to the OP's original agonising decision to either purchase online or from the LBS. There was another thread for this, many people steered the OP to the LBS (which I entriely agree with) and now the excitement of the great deal is well and truely soured.

I live in a regional area and must say my main LBS has terrible service and it is relected in their sales for sure, just ask the local riders where they get their gear from most of the time and why.

My outlook is 'The cheapest isnt always the best but the best is definetly the cheapest'. I am wiling to pay more for service but when it doesnt exist im not going to pay for it just because.

Hope the OP can find a place with better service and one which meets their needs.
 

Art Vanderlay

Hourly daily
Wow, this guy must be pretty dodgy for you to get the police to escort you to the shop to sort the situation. If I was you I would be in that shop everyday until you get the final 20%. It's pretty clear the owner is on the brink, therefore don't wait a week or 2 as he might just disappear.

Good to see you have the majority of your money back.
 

Topperharley

Likes Dirt
Conclusion to narsty sarga
Yesterday after a trip back to the store with police, the salesman/store owner agreed to pay refund of 80% of the amount. Store owner tells police that is all he has in bank, polic offered store owner for me to take a bike to the sale value but that was refused by the store unknown why. After a discussion with police I agreed to the refund.

The store is located in northern nsw.

Thanks all for you input.
Something isn't right there, you get all the money back. There's either more to the story or simply put, you get all the money back.
 

0psi

Eats Squid
Something isn't right there, you get all the money back. There's either more to the story or simply put, you get all the money back.
He can't get all his money back if the shop keep doesn't actually have all his money. Apparently (according to OP) shop owner only has 80% of the money in his account.
 

The Dude

Wasn't asking to be banned
Get on back

Why not simply go back next week/month for the balance?
Maybe the doors will be closed by then...............
 

scblack

Leucocholic
get your money back asap. don't do business with people like this.

did you pay by Credit Card? You can get a refund that way.
Yes, ring your bank credit card provider, you can get a reversal of the credit card transaction. Speak to their Card Services section. You CAN get refunds of credit card transactions.
 

oversizedspoon

Cannon Fodder
I would go to consumer affairs and explain what happened. As the contract of sale is the supply of product for money and the product hasn't been supplied the contract is null. If you were given a verbal indication of the time frame then there is no issue with requesting a refund if this is not met. In saying that good customer service would be "Sorry mate, I can't get this in for a few more weeks, would you interested in this bike. I know it's a little more pricey but I can take $xxx off it"

This is from the Competition and Consumer Legislation

Section 36
(4) A person who, in trade or commerce, accepts payment or other consideration for goods or services must supply all the goods or services:

(a) within the period specified by or on behalf of the person at or before the time the payment or other consideration was accepted; or

(b) if no period is specified at or before that time--within a reasonable time.

Note: A pecuniary penalty may be imposed for a contravention of this subsection.

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply if:

(a) the person's failure to supply all the goods or services within the period, or within a reasonable time, was due to the act or omission of another person, or to some other cause beyond the person's control; and

(b) the person took reasonable precautions and exercised due diligence to avoid the failure.

(6) Subsection (4) does not apply if:

(a) the person offers to supply different goods or services as a replacement to the person (the customer ) to whom the original supply was to be made; and

(b) the customer agrees to receive the different goods or services.
From the way I read this, you could have a bit of a grey area, as subsection 5 states that subsection 4 is negated if the delay in receiving the bike is beyond the control of the LBS, which is entirely possible. Though the due diligence means that the LBS should have made sure that they could stick to that time frame. However subsection 6 demonstrates that the LBS should have offered different goods, IE another bike like what you were after and I think that's the key to this.

I looked for more on supply and sticking to a time frame, however I have run out of time on my lunch break. I can look further if you like later on.

If you paid by credit card, call your provider and report as fraud. Charge backs work well, take time, but work well.
Essentially though for future reference, never pay full for a product you can't walk out of the store with, pay a small deposit if needed but not full.
 

Zam

Likes Dirt
As some others have said getting and 80% refund is not right, prehaps getting 80% refund now and the other 20% later or in installments, but just getting 80% refund should never happen.

I would have persued it a little longer tog et a full refund, i work too hard for my money to be taken for a ride like that....
 

speedyjonzalas

Likes Dirt
What the hell? 80%?

The only time this should ever happen is is a company is in liquidation and cant pay their debts, hence they pay off as much as they can.

If they are not in liquidation you should be getting the full amount back. He will be laughing his ass off for getting money for doing nothing.

I want to know the full story before I comment any further. If what has happened is the end of it I think the 'no shaming' rule should be ignored for this one shop.

Total joke. Also, if you agreed to the money now and have taken it, there will be very little you can do to get the remainder back as police were witness to this insane agreement.

Madness!

For future reference for other rotorburners you should use a form like I have linked below to get money back if you feel a shop has treated you badly. I have gone down this route a couple of times and received the money back within a couple of days. Threatening legal action usually means a swift response.

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0296-sample-consumer-complaint-letter
 
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Dozer

Heavy machinery.
Staff member
I don't want to cloud the issue and I hope the dough comes back in full but in some circumstances if you place an order for an item that requires it to be sent outside of a standard order and then cancel that order you may forfeit a percentage of your payment / all of your deposit. It is difficult to explain the exact process but let me say that I have personally had to deal this damage to a former customer who paid a 20% deposit, signed an order form and placed an order for a very pricey item that required manufacturing. This item was part way through the manufacturer process and the bloke pulled out of the sale. He knew the terms and knew that he'd be forfeiting a lot of cash and had no choice but to let it happen. The item was a special order and we had to finish the product and ended up losing money ourselves when we finally found a buyer for the thing but it goes to show that this process does exist.
In the case of a mass produced bike that doesn't vary from a catalogue it may be different but you may well find this is the lawful process.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
I don't want to cloud the issue and I hope the dough comes back in full but in some circumstances if you place an order for an item that requires it to be sent outside of a standard order and then cancel that order you may forfeit a percentage of your payment / all of your deposit. It is difficult to explain the exact process but let me say that I have personally had to deal this damage to a former customer who paid a 20% deposit, signed an order form and placed an order for a very pricey item that required manufacturing. This item was part way through the manufacturer process and the bloke pulled out of the sale. He knew the terms and knew that he'd be forfeiting a lot of cash and had no choice but to let it happen. The item was a special order and we had to finish the product and ended up losing money ourselves when we finally found a buyer for the thing but it goes to show that this process does exist.
In the case of a mass produced bike that doesn't vary from a catalogue it may be different but you may well find this is the lawful process.
In that case though as you said it is a ordered bike, in this case the bikes are produces regardless and the op didn't even have a bike (as the manufacturer told him, he wasn't high enough on the list to even get a bike). In this situation there is no cost to the manufacturer that wouldn't already be in place and the LBS hasn't taken any shipment or put any money down towards this order so there isnt any extra costs involved or fall out of cash if the buyer pulls out.
The situation is more so simplified by him not having a bike.

If the OP decided to wait it out and lets say in 6 weeks time the LBS calls him and says sorry mate but the manufacturer has no more models and you didn't get one, heres 80% of your money back. We are going to take 20% for no reason or fault on your part.
Id expect if a LBS rang a customer 6 weeks later after all this time and said we cant get you that bike, they would not only give you 100% of yoru cash back but be pretty keen to help you out with a discount on another item or throw something in for the trouble.

This store sounds like they are going under and are taking this blokes money. Of course just my observation and opinion.
As others said get your 20% back that's ridiculous
 

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
I don't want to cloud the issue and I hope the dough comes back in full but in some circumstances if you place an order for an item that requires it to be sent outside of a standard order and then cancel that order you may forfeit a percentage of your payment / all of your deposit. It is difficult to explain the exact process but let me say that I have personally had to deal this damage to a former customer who paid a 20% deposit, signed an order form and placed an order for a very pricey item that required manufacturing. This item was part way through the manufacturer process and the bloke pulled out of the sale. He knew the terms and knew that he'd be forfeiting a lot of cash and had no choice but to let it happen. The item was a special order and we had to finish the product and ended up losing money ourselves when we finally found a buyer for the thing but it goes to show that this process does exist.
In the case of a mass produced bike that doesn't vary from a catalogue it may be different but you may well find this is the lawful process.
Even for a stock out-of-the-book bike, I think this scenario would be valid if the bike had already been delivered (or at least confirmed that it's on the way) and the customer for what ever reason backed out. Especially if the bike was a less popular size that the shop had to order in, and would subsequently spend a long time gathering dust. But in the event where it's out of both the customer's and shop's hands that delivery can't be made, then the customer should receive a full refund or supply of alternate goods to the same (or similar, with a small cash adjustment accordingly) value.
 
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