Why do cyclist insist on breaking the law?

0psi

Eats Squid
Okay so this thread will probably turn into an epic shit fight and get locked but lets try and have a grown up conversation for a moment.

What's up with people cycling on the road and running red lights and generally obeying road laws when it suits them? I don't get it and I'm curious as to why some people seem to think it's okay? My assumption (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that if you are a vehicle on the road (a bicycle is defined as a vehicle by the RTA) then you have to obey the road laws.

I know this has been discussed before but lets try and keep this particular discussion civil. I'm only bringing it as I genuinely don't understand it. And before anyone jumps on the 'stop worrying about what others do, it doesn't affect you' bus, it does. It's generally accepted that cyclists are taken seriously as a legit road user in this country and choosing to adhere to the road rules when it suits isn't helping our case.
 

Chil

Likes Dirt
No idea, I have seen this on multiple days commuting to the Brisbane CBD, it antagonizes not only other vehicles but also riders who do respect the law. Whats more frustrating is that these people don't think about the consequences that can occur or the fact that they could permanently injure themselves or worse, leaving their family and the further community to pay for and deal with their lack of foresight.
 

markb84

Likes Dirt
I'm completely with you here, but to add a point that bugs me even more. Why do people that slap engines in their push-bikes not have to licence their bike/conform to the same road rules and standards?

You see these guys flying all over the place (exect on inclines where they are stupidly slow and usually have a line of traffic behind them) often riding on pavements (which i'm pretty sure is fairly illegal with a motor) the things are always as dodgy as f@ck with oil leaking all over the place, etc.

Either buy a motorbike/moped or pedal your bike! END RANT :rant:

It's worrying seeing some things that go on. People suddenly pulling out (giggidy) in front of cars, running lights, one of my favourites is when they see a red light so jump onto the pavement to go through it, narrowly missing pedestrians then jump back onto the road.
 

John U

MTB Precision
In all groups of people there are some who obey all rules and some who obey some rules. Cycling is no different.

A bike is pretty much a vehicle on the road and in general have to follow the same rules (exception being passing on the left).

The more cyclists obey the road rules the more respect we will get from drivers in general.
 

Brasco_Designs

Likes Dirt
That article probably sums it up best - especially the getting away with it bit. Like the author I am still amazed we have this conversation, yes people will not follow all the rules of the road. Will that ever change? I doubt it, lets look at drivers who text, talk on the phone, speed, run red lights, make illegal turns, tailgate, are unroadworthy etc etc. Are you asking the "why do they do it" question when you see that? Or as the article points out, when pedestrians break the law?

It sucks that it reflects on all of us, but the same thing happens for taxi drivers, P platers, truck drivers, SUV drivers, hoons, you name it there are generalisation and stereotypes for it.

Asking why is like asking what is the meaning of life - you are going to get a million different answers
 

dain2772

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Not justifying it in any way, but different road users generally break different sets of rules. Cyclists do not have a monopoly on poor road etiquette - I have included the most common ones:

Cyclists:
- lane splitting (some places not permissable)
- riding on the footpath
- running reds
- riding erratically

Cars:
- run reds, but only a little late
- speed (constantly - this would be the most consistent law broken across all road users)
- use mobile phones illegally
- aggressive driving, ie tailgating, road rage, not giving way
- not stopping at stop signs

Buses
- speeding
- aggressive driving
- running reds

Pedestrians
- walk against red lights/dont walk
- jaywalking in general
- not giving way to cyclists.

The challenge for us is that car drivers (on the whole) think it is fine to speed, not that big an issue (for many) to talk on their phones and drive aggressively (in Sydney at least), but they don't see what cyclists do as acceptable - ie the 'the laws I break are made to be broken, but you should obey the laws I choose to obey' attitude.


Cyclists on the road tend to be more confident/risk-taking than the average person due to natural selection. Those that aren't risk-takers would ride back streets, cycle paths or not at all. Hence there appears to be a greater proportion of riders taking risks.

I also think that it comes down to the maneuverability (sp) and anonimity issues - walkers don't care what they do for the same reason and cars cannot lane-split or glide through a red light with the same ease so dont.
 

mtb101

Likes Bikes and Dirt
What's up with people cycling on the road and running red lights and generally obeying road laws when it suits them? I don't get it and I'm curious as to why some people seem to think it's okay? My assumption (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that if you are a vehicle on the road (a bicycle is defined as a vehicle by the RTA) then you have to obey the road laws.
what about asking about cars/trucks breaking the law? would take me 5 minutes at an intersection to see drivers breaking the law, using mobiles, speeding, changing lanes without indicating etc, etc. And what is the consequence of these actions? well the NSW road toll was 370 for 2012 with 20,000 injuries -what proportion was a result of breaking the law? as speed, alcohol is a major contributor, think it would be high.

what about the cyclist's deaths for 2012? 12 for 2012. how many of the 12 were breaking the law which results in their death? vs how many were run down through no fault of their own? can't see it in the stats, but from what I see breaking the law aren't going to get you killed, more the cars/trucks that will take you out as let's remember that most of this is a result of a car-centric rule system that doesn't give adequate protection toward cyclists. how can it be safe to have cars passing cyclists for example at 100kph? we have no protection apart from a helmet, so probably the most vulnerable user on the roads, yet the rules don't reflect this, only limited infrastructure and general awareness from a driver's perceptive.

so next time you go out on the road, do you follow the rules? logically you do, however there are plenty of instances where it simply aren't safe to do so, so follow your own rule, and that's survival, otherwise you might as well put a target on your back.
 

wotsis

Likes Dirt
Yep, it's not just cyclists. Just about all users break road laws. Pedestrians jaywalk constantly (either cross against the red man, or cross the road where convenient instead of go to crossing). I would expect that close to all drivers speed at some time or another.

Cyclists running reds just tends to be more visible to observers. Doesn't make it any less 'wrong' but almost nobody follows road rules consistently.
 

bikesarefun

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I'm interested whether people see any difference between:

(i) A lycra-clad road cyclist who generally behaves like normal traffic; and

(ii) Someone on a BMX/DJ bike (who is probably a menace to society anyway) who spends brief periods on the road.


Yeah, I appreciate that the laws should apply to everyone equally. But I feel as though riders that tend to take up a lane and stay in traffic for extended periods are the ones that tend to annoy drivers and give bikes a bad name (i.e. piss off drivers).

The others are just punks who tend to scare pensioners, and are probably just on their way to ride somewhere even more illegal.
 

JonnyH

Likes Bikes
I see it every day on my commute. What is really frustrating is when you are waiting at a red light, another cyclist comes up, cycles past you and through the red light. However, in 99% of cases I catch them on the next hill in any case?! Why the rush? Especially in city traffic the risk of being injured is too high. Given the fact most 'red light runners' seem to be pretty average cyclists so aren't out to break any Strava records, why do they feel the need to shave 30 seconds off their commute?

{Rant over!}
 

markb84

Likes Dirt
But I feel as though riders that tend to take up a lane and stay in traffic for extended periods are the ones that tend to annoy drivers and give bikes a bad name (i.e. piss off drivers).
I'd love to see a peloton of dirt bikes on the road, would be hilarious!
 

0psi

Eats Squid
To be fair I also don't understand people who whinge about speed cameras. If you don't want to get fined then don't break the law, it's not f*cking rocket science.

And yes there will always be people who break the rules but there seems to be a very large percentage of the cycling population who think running red lights on a bike is perfectly fine. I see it every day which is one thing but the amount of people making comments on public forums suggesting that it's okay to run red lights is staggering. As a great example a cycling related page on Facebook put up a pic of some cyclists on a cycle path in the Sydney CBD (next to a main road) stopped on a red light and made the comment that if those cyclists were driving the traffic at the lights would have extended 150m up the road. The amount of comments along the line of 'why are they stopped?', 'Imagine how big the traffic jam would be if all the cyclist stopped at the lights' etc.

And it's something that seems exclusive to cycling, you don't hear motorists saying "Oh, I was doing 140kph on the M4 the other day"

I just don't get it. If we want to be taken seriously as a road user then start acting like a road user. Although it is mildly amusing that everyone here seems to agree with me the one time I want to hear from he other side of the fence :lol:
 

0psi

Eats Squid
Yeah, I appreciate that the laws should apply to everyone equally. But I feel as though riders that tend to take up a lane and stay in traffic for extended periods are the ones that tend to annoy drivers and give bikes a bad name (i.e. piss off drivers).
But that just comes down to the attitude of drivers towards cyclists in this country. Majority of the time it will add sweet FA time to the motorists journey, I mean really, you have to slow down for a minute till it's safe to pass, big deal. It's not like motorists get that shitty with tractors and I overtook a tractor the other day.

There is also a reason for taking up a lane, it's safer. If you ride right over to one side of the road when there is no shoulder then you give drivers the opportunity to 'squeeze past' which is when accidents happen. If you take up a lane then drivers are forced to overtake you like they would any other vehicle. Again it's just drivers attitudes towards cyclists in this country, try riding a bike around Europe for a while and you'll get what I mean.
 

jrewing

Eats Squid
To be fair I also don't understand people who whinge about speed cameras. If you don't want to get fined then don't break the law, it's not f*cking rocket science.

:lol:
cause its a tax, not a safety measure... wow 2 months later you dont even know( cant even remember now) that you broke the law. wack..give us money and youre freed of your sins...

Do you drive in the middle of the road...on a freeway..10 less than the speed limit. methaphorically it sounds like the way you live your whole life and expect others to do too.
 

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
There was an operation in Melbourne a year or so ago where a camera was set up at a particular high-traffic inner city intersection. The result that surprised a lot of people was that a higher proportion of drivers than cyclists ran red lights.

On another note, there is a fundamental difference between the manner in which drivers & cyclists run reds. Drivers will tend to bomb their way through without regard to anyone else, while cyclists generally treat it like a stop or give way sign, observing the traffic flow for a space to get through safely.

I believe there is some scope for revision in traffic laws to make greater allowances for cyclists in order to make the most of their ability to keep moving through traffic without increasing risk for other road users. One major thing that would be extremely easy to implement would be allowing bikes to make a left turn on red; treat the light as a stop sign, observe traffic and proceed when safe - precisely the manner in which most currently illegal red-running is done.
 

unitec

Likes Dirt
Relevance of the law

Okay so this thread will probably turn into an epic shit fight and get locked but lets try and have a grown up conversation for a moment.

What's up with people cycling on the road and running red lights and generally obeying road laws when it suits them? I don't get it and I'm curious as to why some people seem to think it's okay? My assumption (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that if you are a vehicle on the road (a bicycle is defined as a vehicle by the RTA) then you have to obey the road laws.

I know this has been discussed before but lets try and keep this particular discussion civil. I'm only bringing it as I genuinely don't understand it. And before anyone jumps on the 'stop worrying about what others do, it doesn't affect you' bus, it does. It's generally accepted that cyclists are taken seriously as a legit road user in this country and choosing to adhere to the road rules when it suits isn't helping our case.
Although the road rules are meant to be followed by all users both the roads and the road rules have been designed primarily for the motor vehicle.
So much so that the road rules are pretty much the only thing stopping cars from bumping into each other. Think about it.... When driving a car all that most drivers do is simply follow the lines on the road, stop when the lights go red & obey the rules without much need to actually drive defensively or think much at all. These road rules work very well for cars and are supported by drivers.
However for a cyclist (or motor cyclist) needs to un-learn the road rules for their own safety.
For example: if that car ahead pulls out of the stop sign he maybe in the wrong but you are dead so what does that stop sign mean to you? Nothing.
In all aspects of riding a 2 wheel vehicle on the road a rider can never rely on a motorist obeying the rules because of the consequences are so much more than the few dollars excess that the driver is risking.
Without ranting too much the main difference is that cars are totally reliant on the road rules for their safety and cyclists cannot rely on the rules and as such they become insignificant.
 

Hugor

Likes Dirt
IMO cycling in traffic is incredibly dangerous. When I do, I take whatever measures gives me a survival advantage, and am not particularly concerned about traffic law which is designed with car traffic in mind.
Running reds early often allows me to get ahead of the traffic so I can get around he fuckwit ahead who parked his car in the cycle lane, or avoid the squeeze into the gutter as we perform a left hander. Of course cyclists are not heavy enough to trigger light sensors, so unless you want to stand around like a fool waiting for a car to come along your gonna have to run one then too.
If the government wants me to behave like every other registered vehicle on the road then they should provide safe infrastructure and heavy penalties for drivers who disregard cyclist space.

The powered bike thing is also completely out of control. There's been 1 death already in Perth.
These dickheads are hooning all over cycle paths with blatant disregard for everybody.
 
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wilddemon

Likes Dirt
Agree with pretty much everything that has been said here. Went for a ride yesterday with a mate and within 10 k of the end of our ride hit a big intersection and neither of us thought twice: I stopped behind traffic, he weaved through and across a red. If its a car then motorist thinks "hmmm dickhead" but if its a cyclist then motorist thinks "fnkcin cyclists" as if we all ran that red. I'm not going to start pulling up cyclists but agree we have some responsibility toward each other.
Regarding lane position I believe the law says that if it is single lane you are to stay left as is practically possible, ie. as left as is safe. If there's a gutter I reckon you should be at least a foot and up to three depending on grates, road condition and debris (glass, rocks). If it is dual then you can take the whole lane.
Also agree that you need to be prepared to break the rules in case you are about to get mowed down. But will add that you need to be prepared to not exercise all of your rights (eg filtering) if you don't want to get mowed down. Courtesy and a smile or wave as thanks will go a long way and improve our image as a whole.
 
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