I have a beef with bikeshops at the moment in Melbourne. My experience to buy a bike was not good - Their BIG EGOS for a start are a major problem. You would think if you have the cash they would want to sell you whatever bike you wanted - like bloody car salesman. Not so! Its as if you need to prove your riding abilities before you are worthy of such a prized possession. Also if you dont speak the terminology your screwed. When I went to the shops by myself I found them very intimidating and kept being lead down towards the HUFFY section of bikes. I dont get it - why not sell me high-end bike if that's what I want. When I took my hubby its was a different matter - yeah sure mate whatever the misses wants - its as if you dont exist. Even when I chose my bike the guy says to me - hey madam this is a professional bike you would want to ride this a lot. I admit I know very little about bikes, but I love to ride XC, the bike can only go as fast as you pedal or as fast down hill as you would like to go and if the bike SH.ts itself Ill take it to the bike shop so their egos can fix it. Thats what they're there for. Thats my beef. Anyone else have problems like these? Disgruntled female
Why dont bikeshop people want to sell women good bikes
- Thread starter mez
- Start date
Toxicity
one of those boys your mother warned you about
well i'm never dealt directly with this, but i was in a bike shop with my girlfriend at the time, and as she has to deal with my blabbering on about bikes, she knew a few things about a peddly, and whilst we were in this unnammed bike store i was looking at dirt jumpers, and she went and had a squizz at the dh bikes, and as she asked one of the salesmen there, she was asking him various questions about the bikes, but he kept saying it would be a waste of money for her and that she should look at there other range of bikes (i think they were the giant road bikes like yukon, boulder ect) and she became quiet offended...
funny thing is, she knew more about the dh bikes then they seemed to =S
moral - I thought the days of sexist descrimination were meant to be over?
SouthYarraSage
Likes Dirt
How frustrating.
Seems to be like everything else - good people are pretty few and far between. My advice is to find a bike shop person who has half a clue about what you want to do and the right attitude, and stay with them.
I had a similar experience shopping for my last bike. Lots of "you don't need all that suspension..." -type stuff. I'm a bloke, and not exactly a novice, and I was quite surprised how strongly the salespeople's prejudices came through.
Seems to be like everything else - good people are pretty few and far between. My advice is to find a bike shop person who has half a clue about what you want to do and the right attitude, and stay with them.
I had a similar experience shopping for my last bike. Lots of "you don't need all that suspension..." -type stuff. I'm a bloke, and not exactly a novice, and I was quite surprised how strongly the salespeople's prejudices came through.
SouthYarraSage
Likes Dirt
Oh, and i reckon it's totally fine to get irate in those situations...
Its not entirely over - what I dont understand is why is buying the bike YOU WANT a waste of money - I had that said to me a lot. I would understand there comments if the bike had ordinary running gear on it or something but just because you dont fit the bike image thats entirely different. Do sales people only want to waste boyfriends/hubbies/lesbians & gays money (lets not leave anyone out - he he ha ha). And I dont blame your girlfriend getting upset if you have a better bike that what they are trying to offer you - its an insult
powley
Clever... and hetrosexual!
I thought salespeople were suppose to try and sell the most expensive stock possible? for the most personal gain?
That sucks that people decide what quality of bikes you should ride due to the prejudice judgment they make on whether or not your a skilled rider as soon as you walk in the door...
*inhales lots of air* sorry bad sentence
That sucks that people decide what quality of bikes you should ride due to the prejudice judgment they make on whether or not your a skilled rider as soon as you walk in the door...
*inhales lots of air* sorry bad sentence
spyderman_au
Likes Bikes and Dirt
This type of shit happened to my wife when she wanted to buy a new car. She knew exactly what she wanted and how much she wanted to pay for it.
For some reason she had to drag me along with her. Anyhoo as we are trudging through dealerships talking to these arses she would ask them questions and they would tell me the answers. Each time they did this she would ask to deal with some other salesman.
She finally bought the car she wanted from a guy who actually talked to her. Commission lost for about 12 different salesidiots.
For some reason she had to drag me along with her. Anyhoo as we are trudging through dealerships talking to these arses she would ask them questions and they would tell me the answers. Each time they did this she would ask to deal with some other salesman.
She finally bought the car she wanted from a guy who actually talked to her. Commission lost for about 12 different salesidiots.
Ignorant sexists lurk in bikeshops
I worked in a bikeshop for a while and found the whole industry geared towards the male gender. Women specific stuff is hard to find and shops don't stock much. Many women don't even know this stuff exists and suffer backpain, cramps, sore bums/arms and necks as a result of making do with an oversized mens bike. Beware idiots selling you a male specific bike and cramming on a female seat and short stem etc. like one shop tried to flog my wife. Womens bodies need specific designs such as frame geometry, short crank arms, shorter bars, lighter fork springs, special seats, grips, brake lever reach. Not just pink.
Read up on womens bikes and equipment, ask impertinent questions and stick to your guns. It's not just women who get fobbed off by snobbish bikeshop pimply youths with shaved legs, it's older (40ish) blokes too.
Go girl
I worked in a bikeshop for a while and found the whole industry geared towards the male gender. Women specific stuff is hard to find and shops don't stock much. Many women don't even know this stuff exists and suffer backpain, cramps, sore bums/arms and necks as a result of making do with an oversized mens bike. Beware idiots selling you a male specific bike and cramming on a female seat and short stem etc. like one shop tried to flog my wife. Womens bodies need specific designs such as frame geometry, short crank arms, shorter bars, lighter fork springs, special seats, grips, brake lever reach. Not just pink.
Read up on womens bikes and equipment, ask impertinent questions and stick to your guns. It's not just women who get fobbed off by snobbish bikeshop pimply youths with shaved legs, it's older (40ish) blokes too.
Go girl
{ScarFace}
Likes Dirt
I think the "womens" market has only got time to grow. I think it's just stupid to dismiss any newcomer to the sport and prejudice is probably the worst possible thing to do.
There are a few brands which have commited to women's specific designs. Namely Trek and Specialized.
I'm only familiar with Trek WSD bikes. They incorporate a womens body proportions with shorter toptube length, longer seatube and adjustments to the seatube angle. Specs have also been changed including, saddle (obvious), compact crank, three chainring, narrow bars (to incorporate narrow shoulders), custom hoods and brake levers, and some various other features.
Ofcourse all these adjustments correspond with the average women body. And sometimes women find they are just as comfortable with mens bikes.
Sorry about the relentless Trek plug, but I'm pretty proud about Trek's involvement in WSDs.
There are a few brands which have commited to women's specific designs. Namely Trek and Specialized.
I'm only familiar with Trek WSD bikes. They incorporate a womens body proportions with shorter toptube length, longer seatube and adjustments to the seatube angle. Specs have also been changed including, saddle (obvious), compact crank, three chainring, narrow bars (to incorporate narrow shoulders), custom hoods and brake levers, and some various other features.
Ofcourse all these adjustments correspond with the average women body. And sometimes women find they are just as comfortable with mens bikes.
Sorry about the relentless Trek plug, but I'm pretty proud about Trek's involvement in WSDs.
You must have visited the same bike shops Ive been in - they fit the description. I did end up buying a small mens specialized bike and I did change the seat (which is fantastic) and fortunately its perfect for me. Its SWEEEEETT - No aches or pains - doesnt matter how long Im on the bike for - all is good. I hate to say that it really is a bit of a gamble when buying a new bike because you dont really know what a bike is going to be like until you have ridden it for a while. My hubby for instance did his research, he's 6,6", and has recently bought a new bike. He was measured up to make sure the bike was the right size and everything however he now complains the geometry is not quite right. If he had ridden it for a while before he bought it - he wouldnt have bought it. Expensive way to find out if the bikes right dont you think! Any how he will just have to buy another one wont he.
There is nothing wrong with Trek - I checked these out but for my size the small mens Specialized frame suited me best. Thanks
Find a bikeshop with a female salesperson...
The attitude of a salesperson counts for a lot. A shop could be half-full of women's-specific stuff, but we will still be left unsatisfied if the staff members are arrogant/patronising/full of tech-speak/completely ignorant.
As a girl who works in a bike store, I for one want to sell EVERYONE good bikes (but especially women).
My advice is to walk into any bike store with confidence. Tell the salesperson openly what you want and what you don't want. Tell them where/what you ride and where/what you WANT to ride. Do your research, but lean on them for advice and information too (that is, after all, their job). If you don't click with them, go elsewhere.
On the matter of women's-specific gear, I remember reading a magazine article some time ago about how a high percentage of women- but not actually all- need a women's specific bike, while a small but significant percentage of men could similarly find a better fit on a women's bike.
This may be interesting but it's unsurprising when you think about it, given that the factors that make women's needs different include issues such as average overall height (as opposed to say, relative leg/torso lengths), muscularity, foot lenth and weight, which vary almost as much amongst the sexes as between them. It's just another reason why "having women's-specific gear" isn't always enough...
Mez have fun on the Specialized! In the meantime (risking shameless self promotion) maybe you should try shopping further afield...
http://www.tbsm.com.au/
As Riiich suggests above, serving the needs of female riders is an issue facing the whole industry, not just retailers. It's great to see many manufacturers stepping up and investing in the development of women's-specifc gear, but the challenge doesn't end there.
The attitude of a salesperson counts for a lot. A shop could be half-full of women's-specific stuff, but we will still be left unsatisfied if the staff members are arrogant/patronising/full of tech-speak/completely ignorant.
As a girl who works in a bike store, I for one want to sell EVERYONE good bikes (but especially women
).My advice is to walk into any bike store with confidence. Tell the salesperson openly what you want and what you don't want. Tell them where/what you ride and where/what you WANT to ride. Do your research, but lean on them for advice and information too (that is, after all, their job). If you don't click with them, go elsewhere.
On the matter of women's-specific gear, I remember reading a magazine article some time ago about how a high percentage of women- but not actually all- need a women's specific bike, while a small but significant percentage of men could similarly find a better fit on a women's bike.
This may be interesting but it's unsurprising when you think about it, given that the factors that make women's needs different include issues such as average overall height (as opposed to say, relative leg/torso lengths), muscularity, foot lenth and weight, which vary almost as much amongst the sexes as between them. It's just another reason why "having women's-specific gear" isn't always enough...
Mez have fun on the Specialized! In the meantime (risking shameless self promotion) maybe you should try shopping further afield...
http://www.tbsm.com.au/
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osmund
Squid
This really struck a chord with me as I spent the last 3 months shopping around trying to find a women's specific dualie. The biggest challenge I faced was actually being able to test ride bikes. A lot of shops don't build up WS bikes so I had to go to great lengths to actually find places where I could even do a simple test ride. It was very frustrating and in the end I didn't test ride all the bikes I wanted to as no local shops had them built.
In response to osmund, friend of mine was recently shopping for a duallie, and one place built up one for her to try. And she ended up buying from there, though not the same bike.
in general i've experienced a range of responses to being a female shopping for a bike. Agreed, sometimes it does help to find a female saleperson.
but like RAChad, if you find someone who loves riding and wants you to love riding too they will want to sell you the best bike for you. which at least means finding out what type of riding you do, not just what they think you're going to do by looking at you.
I find if you start off by asking what you want for in general terms, even if it's just 'i'm after a XC duallie around $x', it helps you to be taken a bit more seriously. well, should do anyway.
in general i've experienced a range of responses to being a female shopping for a bike. Agreed, sometimes it does help to find a female saleperson.
but like RAChad, if you find someone who loves riding and wants you to love riding too they will want to sell you the best bike for you. which at least means finding out what type of riding you do, not just what they think you're going to do by looking at you.
I find if you start off by asking what you want for in general terms, even if it's just 'i'm after a XC duallie around $x', it helps you to be taken a bit more seriously. well, should do anyway.
BUSHPIG
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Let them know you are interested in regular riding and ask about trails in that area. Maybe search this forum out for other women in your area to meet up for regular rides, that way you can be safer on trail in many ways and learn new skills with more confidence. It sounds as though they are completely ignoring your movements towards high end bikes, I can say if I was working in a bike shop I would recommend a beginner (not saying you are or anything) a bike at an entry level instead of a high end- well specked- bike in case they decided it wasn't the kind of ride for them. I would definitely ask them about the level/ style/ and amount of riding they are interested in doing and try to find the right bike for them fit wise as well as as lower a price as possible.
Although
It seems that the staff that serviced you didn't take this approach.
Do the above and see how it goes. If all else fails, go to another bike shop.
cheers
rabatt
Likes Bikes and Dirt
this was interesting for me being a "bike shop person"
its good to know what customers want.
we have a sort of standard set of questions to find out what bikes someone would be interested in.
what type of riding do you want to do?
where do you want to ride it?
how much will you ride it?
what price were you looking at?
with thos three answered it gives us an idea of what bikes to show the customer.
a problem i have found is, being around bikes and bike people all the time i tend to forget that joe (or joanne) may not know what i'm on about with technical terms, so i have to figure out how to explain it so they understand.
if they dont know what your talking about they wont know if you know what your talking about
its good to know what customers want.
we have a sort of standard set of questions to find out what bikes someone would be interested in.
what type of riding do you want to do?
where do you want to ride it?
how much will you ride it?
what price were you looking at?
with thos three answered it gives us an idea of what bikes to show the customer.
a problem i have found is, being around bikes and bike people all the time i tend to forget that joe (or joanne) may not know what i'm on about with technical terms, so i have to figure out how to explain it so they understand.
if they dont know what your talking about they wont know if you know what your talking about
Derek Yates
Soul Rider
Womens bikes.... and bikes in general.
Hey,
One other thing to keep in mind is that many 'sales people' in bike shops are just that. NOT bike people. Especially in the larger chain stores these people are employed to sell volume bikes during the busy times. They actually sell a lot more than bike people in some cases because they don't worry about the technical stuff and sell based on simple things like colour, price and relating to people. This is fine for $299 bikes but no good for $2999 bikes.
If you talk to people in shops about high end bikes (particularly high end mountain bikes) and they steer you towards the cheap stuff that is probably all they are comfortable selling. 80-90% of most average bike shops turnover is on sub $500 bikes. There are also a lot of road riders that don't care for mountain bikes and don't understand them. If the sales person doesn't know anything about modern suspension design and tuning, shocks, disc brakes or trends in the industry they probably won't try to hard to sell you these things and potentially make a goose of themselves. That's probably slightly better than someone who wings it, sells you something totally wrong, can't support it but still feels great about selling a high end bike.
There are a LOT of good people in the bike trade and a lot of good bike shops. There are also a HEAP of people who really are only in it to make a dollar and have no time for the 'sport' or the high end side of things. Don't judge a bike shop purely on the stock they carry as many shops carry stock waiting for 'the right person' to walk throught the door or because of pressure from supliers to carry a wider range. If you want good service find a good shop that 'gets' the sort of bikes you are interested in, understands the types of bikes on the market and what they are best used for (ie the trails YOU like to ride), how to set these up, tune them, help find places to ride and then support and service your bike down the track. THOSE shops are few and far between and are 100% worth finding, travelling to and supporting the shit out of. Of these shops there always tends to be staff that are specialists in particular areas, there is the BMX kid, the singlespeed/29'er zealot, the DH racer and the old crusty XC dude. Everyone think's there 'thing' is the bestest and everyone else should do it so sometimes even people with their heart in the right place still get it wrong. There are so many categories and sub categories in the industry these days anyone focussing heavily in one area probably isn't that dialled on many others. If someone is leading you away from what YOU want, find someone else to deal with or be firm in telling them what you want. If your just starting out this can be hard as you might not know what you want yet or be looking for guidance on what you should be looking for. It's in your best interest to be educated, ask lot's of questions and take everyone's opinion with a grain if salt and make your own decisions.
If you hang out with bike people, talk to them about good shops, be prepared to travel and I hate to say it but be prepared to pay a bit more for real service. If a shop is selling purely on slashing a price tag then you might get a good 'deal' but is it the RIGHT bike or just one the shop wanted to move? Don't forget that there is a lot more a good shop can/will do for you than just sell stuff to you.
I've worked in the industry for over 10 years and have seen the best and worst of retail and wholesale over that time. As a consumer it's a jungle out there but there are some fantastic stores, fantastic people and fantastic products out there. It's worth doing some legwork to get all those ducks in a row and paying for something that is going to give you years or good times, good rides and get you stoked on riding.
Cheers,
Derek
Hey,
One other thing to keep in mind is that many 'sales people' in bike shops are just that. NOT bike people. Especially in the larger chain stores these people are employed to sell volume bikes during the busy times. They actually sell a lot more than bike people in some cases because they don't worry about the technical stuff and sell based on simple things like colour, price and relating to people. This is fine for $299 bikes but no good for $2999 bikes.
If you talk to people in shops about high end bikes (particularly high end mountain bikes) and they steer you towards the cheap stuff that is probably all they are comfortable selling. 80-90% of most average bike shops turnover is on sub $500 bikes. There are also a lot of road riders that don't care for mountain bikes and don't understand them. If the sales person doesn't know anything about modern suspension design and tuning, shocks, disc brakes or trends in the industry they probably won't try to hard to sell you these things and potentially make a goose of themselves. That's probably slightly better than someone who wings it, sells you something totally wrong, can't support it but still feels great about selling a high end bike.
There are a LOT of good people in the bike trade and a lot of good bike shops. There are also a HEAP of people who really are only in it to make a dollar and have no time for the 'sport' or the high end side of things. Don't judge a bike shop purely on the stock they carry as many shops carry stock waiting for 'the right person' to walk throught the door or because of pressure from supliers to carry a wider range. If you want good service find a good shop that 'gets' the sort of bikes you are interested in, understands the types of bikes on the market and what they are best used for (ie the trails YOU like to ride), how to set these up, tune them, help find places to ride and then support and service your bike down the track. THOSE shops are few and far between and are 100% worth finding, travelling to and supporting the shit out of. Of these shops there always tends to be staff that are specialists in particular areas, there is the BMX kid, the singlespeed/29'er zealot, the DH racer and the old crusty XC dude. Everyone think's there 'thing' is the bestest and everyone else should do it so sometimes even people with their heart in the right place still get it wrong. There are so many categories and sub categories in the industry these days anyone focussing heavily in one area probably isn't that dialled on many others. If someone is leading you away from what YOU want, find someone else to deal with or be firm in telling them what you want. If your just starting out this can be hard as you might not know what you want yet or be looking for guidance on what you should be looking for. It's in your best interest to be educated, ask lot's of questions and take everyone's opinion with a grain if salt and make your own decisions.
If you hang out with bike people, talk to them about good shops, be prepared to travel and I hate to say it but be prepared to pay a bit more for real service. If a shop is selling purely on slashing a price tag then you might get a good 'deal' but is it the RIGHT bike or just one the shop wanted to move? Don't forget that there is a lot more a good shop can/will do for you than just sell stuff to you.
I've worked in the industry for over 10 years and have seen the best and worst of retail and wholesale over that time. As a consumer it's a jungle out there but there are some fantastic stores, fantastic people and fantastic products out there. It's worth doing some legwork to get all those ducks in a row and paying for something that is going to give you years or good times, good rides and get you stoked on riding.
Cheers,
Derek
My question is surely if you want to buy a bike, wouldn't you let the customer decide on the bike they want - not talk them down to the entry level bike as you suggest - unless of course it was due to customers budget. But - if the customer likes the bike with all the goodies on it I would not try to sell them the entry level bike. This was my problem to begin with. If the customer wants ALL THE GOODIES regardless of what level/amount of riding, why not sell them the bike they want. Why down sell? If the customer decides the bike is not for them once they've purchased it - expensive mistake. (You should know what style of riding before spending $$$$). The other thing with upselling - you get better gear on the bikes etc -sales people should emphasise on what you're getting for your buck if you spend that bit more. I take your point that you would want to sell customers the right bike without them overspending unecessarily but if there budget allows - I would upsell. That just me - Im greedy for profit. I did end up going to many other bikeshops and finally found a good one that l like. cheers.
rubikat
Likes Dirt
If a bike store won't sell you a good bike - find another store.
Like your car purchase, if they don't have it then go!
As a female LBS employee, I sell people bikes.
I am ahppy to help anyone find the best bike to suit their needs.
My only advice:
Its your money. Find a store who will serve you as a person. Ride all the WSD bikes and other you can until you find the one that suits YOU best.
Never ever accept second rate service due to your lack of dangly parts.
Again - its your money and your time. Spend it somewhere where you get service!!
Also - get your bike fitted to suit you and defiently get a women's saddle for your bike.
Just my 5 cents.
And for the records, while I love my (second) job in the LBS, not all customers like the thought of a chick who knows (some) stuff about bikes.
Happy hunting.
Like your car purchase, if they don't have it then go!
As a female LBS employee, I sell people bikes.
I am ahppy to help anyone find the best bike to suit their needs.
My only advice:
Its your money. Find a store who will serve you as a person. Ride all the WSD bikes and other you can until you find the one that suits YOU best.
Never ever accept second rate service due to your lack of dangly parts.
Again - its your money and your time. Spend it somewhere where you get service!!
Also - get your bike fitted to suit you and defiently get a women's saddle for your bike.
Just my 5 cents.
And for the records, while I love my (second) job in the LBS, not all customers like the thought of a chick who knows (some) stuff about bikes.
Happy hunting.
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