rone
Eats Squid
Got anything to back this up?
Topless models for Total Rush shop re-launch?!?!
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thecat
NSWMTB, Central Tableland MBC
they are actually about 90% of the household purse string controllers
rone
Eats Squid
Quoted for truth.
For those who are talking about the objectifying aspect where does the buck stop?
Mens can offer the objectifying idea but ultimately it takes women to do it. Women objectify themselves more than anyone, they cant have it both ways. That said that does not make it ok to take advantage of those women. Just because a women says hey ill got topless thats fine, does not mean you should say ok lets do it, in some places it may be acceptable strip clubs for example, but cycling is not the place the demographic and culture is not the place for this.
Topless women are great but in the right context, its the messages this is sending rather than the issue of nudity for me.
I think its in poor taste to have topless women although I like boobs its not something the sport needs to do, put objectifying aside, we should not need to sexualize the bike industry. There is enough sexualisation in the world and its evident that this is effecting kids, you only need to see how many younger teens are dressing slutty and having sex way before anyone realistically is even mature enough to make those decisions, likewise you only need to walk into any clothing store so see how ridiculous the clothes are for kids these days. Its sickening to think any parent would dress there kids in some of the crap available today.
Older individuals know better that this is just purely marketing but younger people see it as "be sexual, be topless, get what I want," it sends really bad messages to younger individuals, it also drastically effects the image of riding, do we really want riding to get the sexist label?
I think we would be naive to say women are not for looks, it would be naive to say women are Just for looks though. Women are beautiful and we are visual creatures just as men are for looks for women, but why are we strengthening the out dated view that women are only good for been topless and sexual and that's how you get attention. Be sexual sure but do it respectfully and with dignity, not exploit it.
Mens can offer the objectifying idea but ultimately it takes women to do it. Women objectify themselves more than anyone, they cant have it both ways. That said that does not make it ok to take advantage of those women. Just because a women says hey ill got topless thats fine, does not mean you should say ok lets do it, in some places it may be acceptable strip clubs for example, but cycling is not the place the demographic and culture is not the place for this.
Topless women are great but in the right context, its the messages this is sending rather than the issue of nudity for me.
I think its in poor taste to have topless women although I like boobs its not something the sport needs to do, put objectifying aside, we should not need to sexualize the bike industry. There is enough sexualisation in the world and its evident that this is effecting kids, you only need to see how many younger teens are dressing slutty and having sex way before anyone realistically is even mature enough to make those decisions, likewise you only need to walk into any clothing store so see how ridiculous the clothes are for kids these days. Its sickening to think any parent would dress there kids in some of the crap available today.
Older individuals know better that this is just purely marketing but younger people see it as "be sexual, be topless, get what I want," it sends really bad messages to younger individuals, it also drastically effects the image of riding, do we really want riding to get the sexist label?
I think we would be naive to say women are not for looks, it would be naive to say women are Just for looks though. Women are beautiful and we are visual creatures just as men are for looks for women, but why are we strengthening the out dated view that women are only good for been topless and sexual and that's how you get attention. Be sexual sure but do it respectfully and with dignity, not exploit it.
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There are ample promos of men in just underwear or men in just pants.
Boobs are a sexual part of the body along with the vagina and penis. Getting a girl to take her boobs out it like getting a guy to take his junk out.
No one complains about the female promo ads with men half clothed and topless as no one complains about the scantily clad promo girls but once you cross that line of bringing out a sexual organ your in a different area. Context you wouldn't complain if a women gets naked in strip club but if she does it while shes teaching your children at school im sure as hell you would have a issue with it.
Now even with context in place I still think any area where a women is been viewed purely as an object to be used is not right.
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deboat
Squid
driftking your argument is so far away from the rest of the world. What you are saying is only true in your little world and not in other places around the world. Some places in the world the girls would be put in jail and other places they get paid more and some girls go top less just for fun.
Comparing girl's boobs to guy's junk??? That is just wierd!
Saying that Boobs are a sexual part of a woman and not of a man...
The girls had paint on so they were not nude.
I would rather a world full of body painted sexual expression and advertising than a world of the MAN telling me that I can only take my shirt of when I shower in private.
Two years ago in Berlin at the bike show they had girls with body paint and nobody complained.
Comparing girl's boobs to guy's junk??? That is just wierd!
Saying that Boobs are a sexual part of a woman and not of a man...
The girls had paint on so they were not nude.
I would rather a world full of body painted sexual expression and advertising than a world of the MAN telling me that I can only take my shirt of when I shower in private.
Two years ago in Berlin at the bike show they had girls with body paint and nobody complained.
elaborate please.
It appears a few on here subscribe to the same idea that this is sending the wrong messages and is disrespectful while been completely a poor strategy and out of context.
What views, the view that boobs are a sexual organ....I pretty sure that's medicine/science, well not exactly a sexual organ but a sexual viewed body part. . If they were not considered a sexual body part in the same way junk is why are they required to wear tops on beaches were nudity is forbidden? WHy do women hide there boobs when they are caught without clothes on, why do they cover up when changing tops, why are they treated in the same fashion as other private areas if they are not comparable?
men don't have boobs we don't have another sexual organ on the same scale as a women on our chest. Maybe they are not as comparable to junk in a direct manner but they are closer to that than a guys chest. I mean we are talking about something that i considered worthy of underwear and something that is not allowed to be shown were nudity is forbidden. We dont live in another country we live in Australia so other countries are moot, there social context is very different.
Again though im not here to argue the level of nudity boobs are considered. The big issues are the underlying messages it is putting out not only about the bike industry but what its presenting to young children. A women walking down the street naked fully proud and for herself is fine, she is not using her body to get something, she is not sending any negative signals except maybe getting naked in public, but shes showing proud, comfort with her body. That's very different to using your body to get things.
If its not nudity than if you have a daughter who is 17 (ie still technical a child and under your care) and wants to paint her boobs and walk outside your going to be ok with that? You think boobs are not sexual and that paint is not nudity and your fine with her going outside like that?
My world is this
-Women are sexual they can be sexual if they like but we should not take advantage of that as this has done.
-sexuality should be in the right context, there is no reason a women needs to be sexual with children around, there is no reason children need to be seeing women bodies been used to get what they want, there is no reason children need to see women painted as only good for looks.
-There is no reason for a women to be objectified.
-Women deserve respect, regardless of what they wear.
-Women should not be used in a way men are not (were there any men in g-strings walking around for the women? no.
-Women can be sexy and very attractive without the need to be painted or nude. a well dressed classy sexy women can produce the same level of attractiveness but without the connotation of slut or easy, instead it shows respect, class.
-We are selling bikes sexualising a none sexual item is wrong, just because it works doesn't mean we should do it.
-Women who disrespect themselves does not give us a pass to disrespect them. (im not saying this particular thing is disrespectful) but because a women is willing to do something doesn't mean you should take advantage of that.
I live in a world were I believe women should be treated with respect and not objectified. Of course there is a level of objectification of us all when we see the opposite sex. But we shouldn't be treating or viewing them like trophies, like numbers to rack up in a tally board. unfortunately a tonne of guys still do this today its pathetic and this advertising just enforces this idea.
Im pretty sure most of us notice grid girls, they dont need to be painted or topless to get our attention, nor does this make you buy a bike, your buying a bike after all a girls boobs has no effect on how good that bike is.
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Breast sex organs? Err, if I understand how to make a baby I don't see what part the breast plays?
Aussie law/ custom is very prudish compared to many other countries where females go topless at lunch time in city parks.
My wife (Austrian) finds it discusting that people wear bathers in saunas, it is completely normal for people to be nude in saunas etc in Europe. Nudity and sex are not the same thing.
Re the Total Rush promo, perhaps some felt it as poor taste, but I still don't get the whole body painted model = sex.
If the model were in bikinis, I would have been imagining what was underneath the bikini and so would every male on here.....
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As mentioned my issue is the messages its conveying here not the nudity itself. Its true that overseas its very different, but we are not living over there and the message it send in this society is very different to what it sends over there. We need to subscribe to the context in where we live because that's whats applicable.
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What is the issue?? Every Australian MTB magazine uses women to sell product, wether they are nude or not, is it not just as degrading to women that a semi clad woman hanging over a bike is used to sell a product. Wether you see nipples or not the message is the same.
I don't say I agree with it, I just wonder why TR are being singled out here.....
I think its a fair point.
Few reasons
-TR are the topic so its automatically singled out here
-topless with paint and boobs out with a shirt socially is not viewed the same
-they did it very publicly
-They did it where many women and children were going to be.
arguably yes this stuff is seen everywhere anyway, i think when its not a photo but in your face it tends to stir up a little more controversy. Photos tend to be private although they will be used to a mass market they are taken privately there is some form of detachment that you get through a photo that you dont loose when you are there in person.
My statements cross over to all aspects though, don't think I am just singling out TR here. Any where nudity or this form of painted nudity is used with children around or where its not relevant to the demographic or context of the event seems wrong to me. Not wrong in that its disgusting but wrong that its not needed, in that its putting sexual characteristics onto a non sexual item. Any where we are portraying the use of a women's body to get what they want, use there body to get attention in a way that requires them wearing less clothes or by lowering there standards or respectability or in where we are portraying women as only objects I feel is wrong.
I think we need to consider too though if painting is no different from clothes, why opt for paint? Why not just throw on a nice out there very noticeable boob happy top and sexy clothing? the store knows that topless girls with paint is more sexual than a top so they used it.
As said earlier I think many see certain issues with what is happening but i think most of us see it in the context. nudity in a men's club is very different than nudity where children could possibly be. sure there are still issue with degrading and objectifying but these are not been put onto children or unsuspecting people, these clubs tend to be places where the women choose to get nude and the men go there for it. A bike store is not this place you don't go there for that.
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Again such a strong link between nudity and sex? why is that? Nude is natural and has nothing to do with sex. My kids see my wife and I naked- so what? Is that poking some degraded image in their face?
The naked human body is a beautiful thing. I wonder why so many people MUST always link nudity to sex. This is in your mind. The female form is beautiful as is the male. Art is art- not sex.
A strip club has nothing to do with models at a shop promo. Is a woman breast feeding her baby in public also seen as being a sex object, wrong, go and hide away?
People"s atititude towards women is what we are talking about here, not wether they are wearing clothes or not. A woman should have the right (IMO) to be naked and not seen as a sexual object. It is her body, it is a natural thing, just because she takes her clothes off has nothing to do with sex. If people see her as an object that is their issue. Those same people will see her as an object wether clothed or not.
Again, I think the Euros have a far healthier attitude towards nudity.
Re kids and nudity, should we teach our kids that being naked is wrong, dirty etc?? Being naked in public in this country IS an issue because of people's attitude, nothing more.....
cramhobart
Likes Dirt
This will be my last post on this topic, because I find some of the view's expressed here worrying. DK I generally enjoy reading all your posts- and respect most of what you have to say, and the way you put your side of any debate. I would urge you to reconsider this view of "your world". In my world the fact that there are men who believe it is ok to make judgements on a woman's sexual availability based on the clothes she is(or isn't) wearing is a much bigger issue than a couple of attractive women in body paint being paid to help sell bikes.
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pharmaboy
Eats Squid
My lord, that is so dead on the money steve24!!!
I've seen naked women in an art exhibition - plenty of children around, and not in the slightest bit sexual. Part of the objectifying women defense is an assumption that others are getting their rocks off on a painted human.
BTW, I disagree on the male body, naked, it's not nearly as beautiful as a woman's - and I've had that exact same conversation with lots of ladies - a woman's curves etc are more aesthetically pleasing to both sexes.
scblack
Leucocholic
So well said Steve. Great to read.
As you have eloquently put, anyone who bleats that nudity = sex has a very narrow minded view.
Cypher
Likes Dirt
Nudity does not automatically equal sexualisation . The problem with TR's promotion is that they presented women as only sexual objects to help sell their wares, by using attractive nearly nude, body painted models uncessessarily. They are continuing with the tradition that women can only be sex kittens/whores or completely asexual (like mothers or good girls).
For most people, including women, sexuality and sex is only a part of their life. As most of us don't work in the sex industry, work, sleep, eating and other hobbies are the main parts of our life. Sex is important, but really, we're not doing it 24/7. They way society presents women as either/or misses out on all the other things we do.
As an example, most used car salesmen are men, but by no means are all men used car salesmen. So we don't automatically treat all men as sleazy and slimy. Neither do we do the opposite and treat non-carsalesmen men as absolute saints either. Similarly women are not indiviudals who are sex/no sex binary forms. Just like men, we fall on the continuum.
Women's equality is decidedly unsexy - because there is little sex to be had. Seeing women as autonomous, competent individuals with their own money means not seeing them as only things to have sex with. This is where TR fails - cycling is not sexy, it has little to do with sex.
Great customer service, for instance, has very little sex involved. My ovaries are not going to burst if I see a good selection of bikes I might be able to demo ride straight away, but I'll be appreciative and part with my money. Imagine going into 10 bike stores and only 1 of those stores having 1 bike that you could ride without significant after market changes or being charged pro prices for a 3rd tier bike - this is what bike purchasing is like for me, even though I can see through magazines and online that there is quite the selection of appropriate geometry bikes for me to ride (all they while having quite a few of the shop assistants try to steer you to a ladeez townie bike that is completely unsuitable for AM purposes or come up with some incomprehensible reason why they can't get a bike in for a demo or that it will take weeks and weeks and weeks. Or talk over to you to your male partner about parts and set up. True story bro).
Buying a bike is not sexy - fun and exciting but not cause for getting a boner/ladyboner. So why use women in a sexualised context (with their tits and arse out for all to see) for a non-sexual business? (And yes women's breasts are still seen as sexual features in our society at the current time, not to mention that the girls were only wearing G strings under all that paint. Where else do you see girls walking around in only g-strings? Oh yes, that's right. A strip club).
Also many women in cycling do not look like these promo girls. Think Anna Meares, Tai Lee Muxlow or even Rachel Atherton. They are not sexy in the traditional sense - but they are extremely competent, successful individuals.
When TR talks about 'supporting women's cycling' they are quite obviously just stating a politically correct line. They are 'pink washing' (if pink wasn't so closely aligned with breast cancer). By their actions we can see that they do not walk their talk. They can wear as much pink as they like and bleat "we'z just mizunderstood." (or my favourite) "we were being ironic" - it doesn't actually make them women 'friendly' until they start with acting women friendly.
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Big JD
Wheel size expert
we will never agree - thats cool
No one is suggesting we take away your god given rights folks to do what ever you want (society will let you know if you cross the line) or that people are f*cking with your moral compass and telling you what is allowed. Total Gush can also do what ever they like and engaged in the way they see fit as a business. Let us be clear - it was not in the name of art/ irony/ naturalism so those topics dont even come into it. It was simply a publicity act - which has been perceived to be poorly executed and inappropriate to many.
Dont get me started on the naked form/ art/ sexuality- it is completely subjective- what you find porn/ art/ sensual/ normal/ arousing/ etc would differ to me. I have three daughters aged from 3 to 21- I also view these things as a father and would have been disappointed to have been there with my kids- not with the nudity once again but the behaviour and culture they were presenting- but it is typical of the TR brand, IMO.
it is probably wasted space to be commenting as a bloke anyway and to be honest- they did something that I hope we could agree - was not appropriate for a bike shop and was not inclusive for all (judging by the feedback).
Nothing can be done about it now. I do like the fact that people can express their views and opinions here in a balanced, respectful and open manner- well done RB.
Cypher- I admire your ability to express your views in the eloquence that you do and personally find intelligence and ability to communicate really quite attractive.................................. oh did I say that!
I agree with Steve if that was the issue - if people still perceive the issue to be nudity = sex. It simply was not appropriate and a very poor decision/ badly executed and followed up with the sensitivity of a train crash. We all have an opinion and at the end of the day it aint going to stop the planet turning
No one is suggesting we take away your god given rights folks to do what ever you want (society will let you know if you cross the line) or that people are f*cking with your moral compass and telling you what is allowed. Total Gush can also do what ever they like and engaged in the way they see fit as a business. Let us be clear - it was not in the name of art/ irony/ naturalism so those topics dont even come into it. It was simply a publicity act - which has been perceived to be poorly executed and inappropriate to many.
Dont get me started on the naked form/ art/ sexuality- it is completely subjective- what you find porn/ art/ sensual/ normal/ arousing/ etc would differ to me. I have three daughters aged from 3 to 21- I also view these things as a father and would have been disappointed to have been there with my kids- not with the nudity once again but the behaviour and culture they were presenting- but it is typical of the TR brand, IMO.
it is probably wasted space to be commenting as a bloke anyway and to be honest- they did something that I hope we could agree - was not appropriate for a bike shop and was not inclusive for all (judging by the feedback).
Nothing can be done about it now. I do like the fact that people can express their views and opinions here in a balanced, respectful and open manner- well done RB.
Cypher- I admire your ability to express your views in the eloquence that you do and personally find intelligence and ability to communicate really quite attractive.................................. oh did I say that!
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Art Vanderlay
Hourly daily
Don't forget the victims in all this, the innocent bikes. They're being pushed aside. They just want to be ridden....
jrewing
Eats Squid
Like the models...!!!???
Big JD
Wheel size expert
the lace gstrings copped a beating too.