New rules for cyclists in NSW - Safe passing distances, but massive fines as well....

[pink poodle]

So...what's the go with being randomly pulled over so the cops can check if you've got a bell?

What's the law that allows cops to pull over a bicycle rider if no law has been broken? Both when riding along a bike path (shared or not) and the roadway itself?

Police need to have reasonable suspicion that you are engaged in, have been engaged in, or are about to be engaged in a crime to interfere with your passage. If they pull you up, always ask them why straight up. Be polite about, but don't let them bully you. I refuse to comply until they can explain to me why I'm being harassed.

Once you have been pulled up...this is when they start to clock up the infringements. Bell, lights, no ID, helmet fitmen...etc.

I don't understand the dismounting at pedestrian crossings. Are we meant to get off the bike to ride across them while on the road, or only if we are following the path of the pedestrians.

A lot of pedestrians are terrified of cyclists. I don't understand it but they are. Dismounting is a courtesy to them. It also allows drivers to get a feel for what you're doing.

 

[spoozbucket]

Couldn't they just notice a lack of bell and pull you up or do an RBT?

 

[hifiandmtb]

From the act itself.

vehicle" means:
(a) any description of vehicle on wheels (including a light rail vehicle) but not including any other vehicle used on a railway or tramway, or

(b) any description of tracked vehicle (such as a bulldozer), or any description of
vehicle that moves on revolving runners inside endless tracks, that is not used
exclusively on a railway or tramway, or

(c) any other description of vehicle prescribed by the statutory rules.

I'm certain they have covered the majority of things that roll such as motorised couches.

Doesn't answer my question.

Do the police have a right to stop someone just to check a bell?

They don't have the right to stop a car unless they are doing an RBT or have reason to believe an offence has been committed.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Police need to have reasonable suspicion that you are engaged in, have been engaged in, or are about to be engaged in a crime to interfere with your passage. If they pull you up, always ask them why straight up. Be polite about, but don't let them bully you. I refuse to comply until they can explain to me why I'm being harassed.

Once you have been pulled up...this is when they start to clock up the infringements. Bell, lights, no ID, helmet fitmen...etc.

Ok, they have no right to stop to check that a bell has been fitted. It's reasonable to believe that a bell isn't immediately visible, therefore they cannot have a suspicion one doesn't exist!

 

[Rob_74]

My uneducated understanding is they can stop you for not having a bell as this is something they can observe prior to stopping you. The same as they could stop an unroadworthy car ie broken tail light etc.

Also i think rbt laws specially state motor vehicles so on a bike you shouldnt be stopped for an rbt stop. (but if you involved in any kind of accident you can be)

 

[spoozbucket]

My uneducated understanding is they can stop you for not having a bell as this is something they can observe prior to stopping you. The same as they could stop an unroadworthy car ie broken tail light etc.

Also i think rbt laws specially state motor vehicles so on a bike you shouldnt be stopped for an rbt stop. (but if you involved in any kind of accident you can be)

I know a couple of riders that have been done for drink riding from a RBT.

 

[hifiandmtb]

My uneducated understanding is they can stop you for not having a bell as this is something they can observe prior to stopping you. The same as they could stop an unroadworthy car ie broken tail light etc.

Also i think rbt laws specially state motor vehicles so on a bike you shouldnt be stopped for an rbt stop. (but if you involved in any kind of accident you can be)

The law is poorly written then. Why not state "have a clearly visible bell" and remove ambiguity?

Working bell or other horn device. That could mean anything installed anywhere of any type! I'd argue a loud hub is a warning device, as others have said. I use my Hope to let pedestrians know I'm approaching.

 

[pink poodle]

Ok, they have no right to stop to check that a bell has been fitted. It's reasonable to believe that a bell isn't immediately visible, therefore they cannot have a suspicion one doesn't exist!

In my most recent incident (new years eve, 630pm) i was told I looked like someone with a warrant out. I'm sure it was convenient bullshit, but that was their in for checking my shit. It all depends on the mood the coppers are in and their attitude. Some are just pigs by nature, drawn to the authority they have and craving the right to use it. Some are kind of normal people doing a difficult job.

 

[hifiandmtb]

It's this blitz that shits me. If I'd been caught up in it, I'd love to be able to sail on past the checkpoint, knowing that they had no right to stop me.

 

[dr.matt]

I can't remember the last time I bought a bike that had a bell fitted. I always shout out hello or g'day when coming up behind walkers. I've had plenty say 'you should have a bell'. Usually by those with their dogs off lead or wearing black at night....

 

[stirk]

This whole increase in NSW Govt revenue stream is really only aimed at Joe roadie and John commuter to help pay for new roads! If they can't get it from rego they'll get it from fines.

 

[Haakon]

My defy adv pro came with a bell in the bag along with reflectors - giant meeting legal obligations I guess but they were not fitted by me!!

Anthem didn't, but it did have a sticker saying it was designed for off road and competition use.

My experience with bells is the same as many - a source of agro and unpredictable behaviour from pedestrians. It's usually safer for me to sneak up on them and be past them before they have a chance to randomly veer into my path...

 

[pink poodle]

Fellow Residents of nsw, welcome to a new era of fascism. "Show me your papers."

 

[slippy]

My experience with bells is the same as many - a source of agro and unpredictable behaviour from pedestrians. It's usually safer for me to sneak up on them and be past them before they have a chance to randomly veer into my path...

This has never been my experience. I have a bell on my commuter bike which covers a lot of bike paths. Consistently pedestrians step to the left and often accompanied by a friendly "thankyou" or a wave. I think a lot of the confusion arises if you ring your bell too late, when you're right on top of the pedestrian, causing a minor panic. If you ring from a suitable distance you get a much better response, you have time to ring again if needed, and people actually get out of your way making your ride more enjoyable.

 

[franco cozzo]

T If you ring from a suitable distance you get a much better response, you have time to ring again if needed, and people actually get out of your way making your ride more enjoyable.

works the same when you call 'bike' or 'bike passing'...i find people generally react positively to voice communication & small wave from the bars or even just eye contact can be enough...
which is why it seems silly to mandate a bell...to me it seems cold/abrupt and can be interpreted by quite a few pedestrians as ' get out my way'...also who enforces the use of the bell....are you supposed to ring it every single time you see or encounter a pedestrian? what if you never ring it but have it....? what a fucked law...

 

[slippy]

Yeah, I think any warning from a suitable distance is appreciated. I think most pedestrians would know a bell is not intended to be rude. Sure one in a hundred might be an arse, but nothing would have pleased them anyway.

 

[John U]

works the same when you call 'bike' or 'bike passing'...i find people generally react positively to voice communication & small wave from the bars or even just eye contact can be enough...
which is why it seems silly to mandate a bell...to me it seems cold/abrupt and can be interpreted by quite a few pedestrians as ' get out my way'...also who enforces the use of the bell....are you supposed to ring it every single time you see or encounter a pedestrian? what if you never ring it but have it....? what a fucked law...

That's got a lot to do with how it's being used, history, and how the walker perceives its use. I do a lot of bike path kms commuting also. I ring the bell early. People who are paying attention to how they are walking on the path, know the rules, and are responsible and share, will acknowledge the bell with a wave or simply by moving left a little. Some newbs will stay left stop and turn around, some who have no idea could go any direction. If you ring early enough you have time to react accordingly without any agro being generated.

Ringing at the last second is dangerous. Walkers who are not aware of what is going on around them are also dangerous.

I acknowledge any acknowledgement with a 'Morning' 'g'day' or 'evening' rather than a 'thanks'. I think they all have the same effect but 'thanks' gives one party the false impression that they have more right to be there than the other, which they don't. Dunno, might be overthinking it a bit. I have way too much time for thinking when I'm commuting.

 

[franco cozzo]

I acknowledge any acknowledgement with a 'Morning' 'g'day' or 'evening' rather than a 'thanks'. I think they all have the same effect but 'thanks' gives one party the false impression that they have more right to be there than the other, which they don't. Dunno, might be overthinking it a bit. .

yes you are....
for me its the communication thats important not whats said....thanks, cheers, gday, morning, a wave .... as long as everyone knows whats going on its all good

 

[Puddleduck]

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...ist-crashing-after-being-clipped-by-car-video

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

what's the situation regarding minors and the enforcing of the rules ?

They aint required to carry ID, so do they not get busted for no bell, etc etc ?