Little Things You Hate

[Zaf]

LTIH - rationalising away the nastiness of taking enjoyment in causing a fellow sentient creature pain and suffering.

Its just gross.

You need to be a little more pragmatic about life's harsher realities.

Also, who said they got enjoyment from the pain and suffering of a creature?

 

[pink poodle]

Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about euthanasia? Are you even open to the concept that we are capable of killing with compassion?
I'm a good hunter, and I take great pride in that and enjoy it. I'm not going to try and explain the thrill, you will literally never understand that side of things unless you go out and participate in the activity, but I'm not going to lie that it exists; certainly not for the sake of public opinion.



Nothing really! I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, nor can I understand the choice from nutritional or medical standpoint. I clearly don't have any qualms with killing for food, so don't understand the ethical arguments beyond the wastage in farming meat (which I actually agree with). But even with their usual stereotypes (the rabid vegans types), they're not bad people; just people I don't really understand or spend much time around.

I'm sure some of them are even alright!

Is this one of those awkward "I've got a boner" moments? I hear it's common in this category of sport.

Contrary to your assertion that it is thrilling, I've found killing animals boring, sometimes uncomfortable. I don't object to people wanting to kill their own meat, just glorifying it. Not too long ago a was helping chase a bird out of a friend's cafe. I whacked that poor bastards with a broom while swooshing at it. I must have nursed the fucking pigeon for half an hour before releasing it! I was quite concerned I'd accidentally killed a rat of the sky.

Yet I do enjoy fishing. Though I release most of what I catch, keeping the occasional fish for my grandmother. So the world can be a confusing matrix of morality.

You can't really be fully vegan in modern society unless you are really really pedantic about it. Even vegetables use blood and bone fertiliser.

Vegans generally fall into certain categories. The recent postulated one is the ethical angle. Well then you'd better strike palm oil products off your list in that case - all those malaysian animals getting their homes hacked away.

Or the incineration of orang-utans. That's pretty grim.

Oh, man. You couldn't have possibly misread that worse :noidea:

You're so freaking preachy! I'll eat some lentils for dinner.

 

[pink poodle]

You need to be a little more pragmatic about life's harsher realities.

Also, who said they got enjoyment from the pain and suffering of a creature?

Enter the ninja...instant painless death to all that oppose him!

I'd post an amusing video I found of Lynn Thompson, but so many pigs appear to die just by his presence it is likely too upsetting for anyone that hasn't accepted their position as the ultimate apex predator.

 

[Haakon]

Also, who said they got enjoyment from the pain and suffering of a creature?

Ummm. You did... ?

 

[Zaf]

Is this one of those awkward "I've got a boner" moments? I hear it's common in this category of sport.

Contrary to your assertion that it is thrilling, I've found killing animals boring, sometimes uncomfortable. I don't object to people wanting to kill their own meat, just glorifying it. Not too long ago a was helping chase a bird out of a friend's cafe. I whacked that poor bastards with a broom while swooshing at it. I must have nursed the fucking pigeon for half an hour before releasing it! I was quite concerned I'd accidentally killed a rat of the sky.

I can still empathise with an animal, especially a hurt one.
I don't think it's an awkward boner moment, I've certainly never experienced in that way, for me it's just being very aware of the power you're wielding. A reminder of where you sit on the food chain, far more of a philosophical thrill than a physical one. And then there's the satisfaction aspect of a clean kill, the stalking to within distance, the singular focus on what you're doing etc. It is not an easy skill and it's satisfying to execute well. I avoid the pain and suffering of creatures at all cost, in fact before you can shoot Kangaroos for meat, you have to prove marksmanship competence.

I don't bait and I don't trap.

Now before everyone explains the morality of it, or having a "power trip to feel good about themselves" or some such diatribe, neither do I, I'm trying to explain better what I've described as a "thrill" and where the enjoyment comes from. I hope that makes sense, but it's a difficult concept to describe, and probably one you need to experience for yourself before it'll make any sense.

Ummm. You did... ?

Should be easy enough to quote then.

 

[moorey]

And yet somewhere in your reasoning you went "point out that he was wrong but don't offer any clarification on it".
If you don't want people to misread the things you say, you could start by being clearer with how you present them.

I didn't point out 'where you were wrong', I highlighted where I disagreed. At least that's what I was aiming for.
I did point out that's your assumptions about me were totally wrong though. Coz they were.

 

[pink poodle]

I can still empathise with an animal, especially a hurt one.
I don't think it's an awkward boner moment, I've certainly never experienced in that way, for me it's just being very aware of the power you're wielding. A reminder of where you sit on the food chain, far more of a philosophical thrill than a physical one. And then there's the satisfaction aspect of a clean kill, the stalking to within distance, the singular focus on what you're doing etc. It is not an easy skill and it's satisfying to execute well. I avoid the pain and suffering of creatures at all cost, in fact before you can shoot Kangaroos for meat, you have to prove marksmanship competence.

I don't bait and I don't trap.

Now before everyone explains the morality of it, or having a "power trip to feel good about themselves" or some such diatribe, neither do I, I'm trying to explain better what I've described as a "thrill" and where the enjoyment comes from. I hope that makes sense, but it's a difficult concept to describe, and probably one you need to experience for yourself before it'll make any sense.




Should be easy enough to quote then.

Well at least you aren't getting a boner. Though when I need to feel like I'm wielding power I have a wank. That feeling never lasts long enough and sometimes ends in tears...

 

[moorey]

Ummm. You did... ?

I think he said 'thrill' from memory. Who enjoys thrills? Overrated. :behindsofa:

 

[moorey]

Morality is subjective. That is a fact of life. You didn't 'learn' it wasn't ok, you decided.

I wasn't clear.
I learned that something isn't right, just because your upbringing said it was.
I also learned that animals aren't here forgot food an amusement as god had said, and that animals do feel pain, and lead rich lives.
I'm not judging anyone about their meat eating. Feel free to point out where I've ever done that in the 14 years I've been on here (all as a vegan)
I am happy to discuss, and point out where I disagree.....and if something demonstrably wrong is said, I'll possibly take it to task.

 

[Freediver]

I think there is a difference between enjoying hunting and enjoying killing. I go spearfishing and really enjoy it, I love being in the ocean, I love seeing all the life down there and I love to eat fresh fish. Sometimes it's so fresh that fillets still twitch. I love the hunt but I don't love killing or hurting fish. I only take what I or my family can eat that day and I won't take the shot unless It's going to kill the fish instantly or close to it.

I don't have a problem with hunters that have an ethos like that.

Sometime I see other spearfishers that obviously enjoy killing fish, they get out with still live fish on their stringers that have been gut shot. They get out with anything they can legally kill and often leave under sized stuff out their that they killed for kicks. I've heard stories about blokes that go out to the Coral Sea and shoot massive wahoo to burley up the area and bring in more wahoo for them to shoot for more burley. There is even competitions to see who can kill the most species, some of which are near inedible. People like this are in it for the thrill of the kill.

Spearfishers like that are arseholes in my book and I think that some hunters are are way too like that.

I also understand that some folks with different ethics to me may not like my killing fish

 

[moorey]

I think there is a difference between enjoying hunting and enjoying killing. I go spearfishing and really enjoy it, I love being in the ocean, I love seeing all the life down there and I love to eat fresh fish. Sometimes it's so fresh that fillets still twitch. I love the hunt but I don't love killing or hurting fish. I only take what I or my family can eat that day and I won't take the shot unless It's going to kill the fish instantly or close to it.

I don't have a problem with hunters that have an ethos like that.

Sometime I see other spearfishers that obviously enjoy killing fish, they get out with still live fish on their stringers that have been gut shot. They get out with anything they can legally kill and often leave under sized stuff out their that they killed for kicks. I've heard stories about blokes that go out to the Coral Sea and shoot massive wahoo to burley up the area and bring in more wahoo for them to shoot for more burley. There is even competitions to see who can kill the most species, some of which are near inedible. People like this are in it for the thrill of the kill.

Spearfishers like that are arseholes in my book and I think that some hunters are are way too like that.

I also understand that some folks with different ethics to me may not like my killing fish

I don't like you killing fish.



I respect the way you go about it if you feel the need to do it though. It's the lesser of two evils compared to the usual way fish are caught and killed indescriminantly.

 

[pink poodle]

I don't like you killing fish.



I respect the way you go about it if you feel the need to do it though. It's the lesser of two evils compared to the usual way fish are caught and killed indescriminantly.

Those nets...they can't hold under sized fish. They are also designed in a way that allows turtles and dolphins to escape. I've never seen an undersized fish for sale in the fish markets.

Sarcastic font required. It's not uncommon to see the many undersized fish hidden among the scrap fish sold for fishing bait.

 

[Haakon]

I think he said 'thrill' from memory.:

Ah yes, quite right.

 

[Spike-X]

Do you know that if you chop a bread roll up and mix it with an unlicked postage stamp that it'd still probably have a higher IQ than you?

 

[Spike-X]

I fail to comprehend how killing is 'thrilling' to a grown up, capable of understanding/empathizing with another creatures pain and suffering. I really do.

I'm with you.

 

[Spike-X]

It would be interesting to see how long the "ultimate apex predator" would last against an angry boar without his boom stick to hide behind.

 

[Freediver]

Those nets...they can't hold under sized fish. They are also designed in a way that allows turtles and dolphins to escape. I've never seen an undersized fish for sale in the fish markets.

Sarcastic font required. It's not uncommon to see the many undersized fish hidden among the scrap fish sold for fishing bait.

Most small fish are just thrown back dead along with the low/no value fish. Sometimes the lucky ones don't die a pointless death and get turned into fish meal for aquaculture or fertiliser.

 

[moorey]

Most small fish are just thrown back dead along with the low/no value fish. Sometimes the lucky ones don't die a pointless death and get turned into fish meal for aquaculture or fertiliser.

I spent time on trawlers and cray boats as a younger man. I think 'doing the right thing' was the exception to the rule. And they were the good fishermen. We see the rosier side of things. It eases our conscience. The cows on butcher shop windows always smile.

 

[Zaf]

It would be interesting to see how long the "ultimate apex predator" would last against an angry boar without his boom stick to hide behind.

None of you will bemoan the fact that a cat is completely over equipped to kill a mouse, or a lion a gazelle, or an orca a seal. But the moment a human outclasses anything else this concept of a "fair fight" emerges and you begin wishing ill upon anyone who exercises the skillset. Our intelligence is our greatest weapon; and it's supplemented by our persistence and extreme resilience. We can track our prey over extremely long distances, we have a body that can eat itself in order to keep going, we can survive in any climate in the world. Are you uncomfortable being confronted with your own potential for lethality? Are you uncomfortable being reminded that world is not fair place?

I don't enjoy the suffering of a creature, and I tried explaining where the thrill of hunting comes from, but it is a difficult concept to grasp. I think the better way I could describe it is that it's the same kind of enjoyment I get from MTB'ing. There's a satisfaction in getting something right, in clearing a section, in demonstrating a skill or taking a risk and coming out on top. If you've ever been good at something, or plyed a skill until you were, you've probably felt something similar. So don't be so hasty to judge.

I think he said 'thrill' from memory. Who enjoys thrills? Overrated. :behindsofa:

Specifically, I said the thrill of hunting. Not "the enjoyment of the pain and suffering of a creature", it's an important distinction, and it's a pretty disgusting thing to have said about you, let alone a complete misrepresentation of what was being said.

 

[johnny]

I've been in the middle of nowhere Queensland digging in a dried out creek to find water. All I had was my pants, some boots with no socks and a knife. Behind me I heard noise, turning around I'm face-to-face with a full grown wild boar. As it stood there looking at me I realised that I was in its wallow, or whatever their laying down spot is called. In my head that sounded like "fuck fuck, I'm in fuck fuck its wallow fuck fuck fuck fuck I'm gonna die".

The pig casually snorted and turned about and trotted off. At that point I didn't feel anything near an alpha-predator.



I eat meat but I do not go fishing. I would not pull a cow out of a paddock by a hook through it's face and hold it underwater while I cut its head off so I don't do the equivalent to fish.