26 officially done?

[No Skid Marks]

What happened to us guys? 26 is better, 29 is better, 650b is better.......the hatred, the exclusion. You know what we've become.......ROADIES yes that's right, any given road ride I can turn up and be looked down upon because my legs aren't shaved, my bike isn't boutique Italian (it's efficient German snobs!) and my nicks don't match my jersey.......

Unite with dirt beneath our nails & a shock pump in our bags.

Bragging rights go not to those with the best kit, nor even the one that gets to the end first, it's the one with the biggest smile for ripping the trail apart just that little bit better than they did last week.

Truth. Rock on.
:Banane09::rockon::target::Banane08::Banane34::Banane20::cheer2::llama::drum::bananajump:
as long as they didn't cut corners:nono:

 

[floody]

But trophy trucks run 35s... Kind of a pointless analogy either way.


So, Rod are you basing your idea of 29ers on a 'shitter'? Thats what I did in the beginning, the first 29ers I rode frankly sucked and turned me off the idea. I have posted plenty of times 'when I need a 29" wheel to roll over trail obstacles, I'll give up riding'. Its still true really.
Anyway, some years passed and then I rode a good 29er, which could slide, dice, hop, jump and shred just like a 26" bike but still had the benefits covering flat ground and rough surfaces easier that people speak of; it opened my eyes quite a bit. Generally it does at least as well as the 26" bike and in some places I have to admit its better.

Also my mental computation must be out but say a 29x2.35 vs a 26x2.35...surely at the same width the 29er will have a longer contact patch and more rubber on the deck overall?


Anyway I think 26" bikes have a long way to run yet, I just suspect a lot of the crap will be weeded out as big wheels flood into the cookie cutter categories.

 

[No Skid Marks]

But trophy trucks run 35s... Kind of a pointless analogy either way.


So, Rod are you basing your idea of 29ers on a 'shitter'? Yes and no. Lots of other experiences and knowledge also. I rode 24" wheels for a year on hardtail and 6" DH bike(way back when). I know what chainstay length does. I see what dudes can do on 20" wheels. I've destroyed enough 26" wheels(wheels are the weakest link on a bike after rear mechs). I like the spice of smaller wheels.
Also my mental computation must be out but say a 29x2.35 vs a 26x2.35...surely at the same width the 29er will have a longer contact patch and more rubber on the deck overall?

Longer but narrower. Side wall stiffness etc would have an effect to make all things not equal, but as a pretty curate generalization same pressure will equal same overall size contact patch.

 

[brendonj]

So confused. I don't know what to think.....
Heres a few samples:

They can take my 26" wheels out of my cold dead hands.

Where can I order a container load of 26" maxxis minion F's? If you need some in the 30's, just ask for Bobo on the street.

I don't understand how people can say that a 29er with less travel is the same as a 26er with more. Sure this applies on the small bumps and sharp bumps. But everyone must be riding like girls, or on flat trails. When I go long on a step down and case, is a 29er doing to give me more compliance (wheel flex might help a little, but not that much).

My prediction - 650B to dominate trail bikes. 26er for gravity, people of smaller size and purists. 29er for XC and large trail bikes. Some long travel bikes to be 29", but stay on the fringe - good for some tracks etc. (While I am at it, Sam Hill will go into politics in 2018 and the internet to be replaced by something better in 2022)

Why are people so afraid of change. It brings opportunity, something different to experience and enjoy. Life is about change. Get on board.

My next bike will definitely by a 29er, so I can leave you 26" suckers in my dust.

Where can I buy shares in a 29" tyre company?

 

[outtacontrol]

So, Rod are you basing your idea of 29ers on a 'shitter'? Thats what I did in the beginning, the first 29ers I rode frankly sucked and turned me off the idea. I have posted plenty of times 'when I need a 29" wheel to roll over trail obstacles, I'll give up riding'. Its still true really.
Anyway, some years passed and then I rode a good 29er, which could slide, dice, hop, jump and shred just like a 26" bike but still had the benefits covering flat ground and rough surfaces easier that people speak of; it opened my eyes quite a bit. Generally it does at least as well as the 26" bike and in some places I have to admit its better.
.

This is the point I have been trying to make. Floody and I are coming from the same place. I only took the Bandit for a ride to shut up the guy who was trying to sell it to me, and that way I could get on with looking for a fun 26".

Once I rode it it blew me away how good it was. It's not an XC bike, it's a trail bike with good angles, geo and 140mm of travel. It killed shit my trance struggled with. It deals with everything my Slayer does, only faster.

If you want to hate, that's cool, I did too. But don't base your opinions on shitty XC 29ners otherwise you will be embarrassed when you finally give one a go.

I know, I was...

 

[Art Vanderlay]

This thread has been going so long that the 29er is officially done now...

 

[dusty_nz]

26 versus 29 review

Well I took my new 29er for a run in the weekend. Been a long term hard tail rider and have just moved to a 26er full susser as a play bike.

Only reason I upgraded was I cracked my titanium hard tail and thought the 29er hardtail would be a good race day option.
Comparison is between a 26" Van Nic Turaeg and a 29er Van Nic Zion. Both setup more for all mountain (Higher bars and sitting back a bit further). For a race I would drops the bars and move the seating forward.
Have been riding my Yeti ASR-5C whilst the warranty was being sorted.
I am 5'11" and ride 16" frames. all three bikes are classed as small and I just find it more rideable.

Well was surprised,
Ride was around the kalamunda circuit (45km). 30% of the course is more trail versus single track but very few areas of tightness that a 26 is king. Few decent jumps 2+ footers. Few doubles and lots of tables tops and burms. Odd short rock. garden.10% firetail
Ride with a few good guys on 29er and full sussers. One tried riding a Niner 29er hard tail last weekend. Could bearly walk after 20km. Beaten the bruised, hopefully that sets the level of tracks.

First, So miss riding hard tail's. Lots of fun and so chuckable and great to jump versus a full susser. Full susser is good but seems to sedate the rides. This was the biggest surprise was how chuckable the 29er was.

Peagravel. On the 26 I sank and the 29er just floats. Especially on uphills there are sections of a few 100 meters of deep peagravel. Barely noticed it.
Hill climbing. (Name: Whore) Wasn't grinding for the first time. 26 I am constantly grinding on the hill and focusing on the next few meters. 29er was effortless. This is tight uphill and a few segments are normally to tight for a 29er. Made them just without pegging.
Swoopy downhills, Also very nice, almost the same as the 26, 29er seemed to hold the speed easier.
Rock gardens, 26er way easier to pick that line and also just skim, 26 you just relax and let the bike go, 29er wanted to take its own course, had to work a bit harder to keep its head pointing in the right direction. These gardens are where the bike is being bucked around. once the 29er had a slight change of course you really had to pull it back in line, 26er you don't even think about it.
Both bikes have 1500gram wheels sets. You could really notice the 29er wheels flexing more.

Found I was going wide on a lot of tighter corners causing a bit of overbraking. Lets almost say understeer. 26er you just yank its head around and give it some gas. the 29er didn't respond.

All and all. Well the 29er will stay however the full sussers life is looking limited, Might build up a 26er hard tail with 140 front forks with a small frame for play.

On race day def the 29er, Its almost cheating
Road trip with the boys. 26er. 29er is fun but the 26 is more.

 

[normdouglas]

I remember when suspension first came out

Didn't we have this same conversation when the early Judy Rockshox came out?
Even now with so much technology in bikes, people are still bucking the system and wanting to ride "old school".
Recently I ate my words big time... I'm now riding a 29er 5" trail bike... the only way I can describe it, is that it feels like a motorbike into corners, but climbs just as well as the 26er.
There is simply no question... get a big wheel out in front of you and the handling is amazing.

29er's with great big fat 3.0 tyres, will be dominating DH racing in coming years... these bikes will have a pedal assisted powered rear hub, so you can do your own shuttles... just watch.

 

[floody]

Yes and no. Lots of other experiences and knowledge also. I rode 24" wheels for a year on hardtail and 6" DH bike(way back when). I know what chainstay length does. I see what dudes can do on 20" wheels. I've destroyed enough 26" wheels(wheels are the weakest link on a bike after rear mechs). I like the spice of smaller wheels.

Ok, sure, I've ridden and raced on pretty much every wheel size apart from 650C over the years too, but how much is your experience informed by riding 29ers rather than making a judgement based on a combination of other observations? I would have said basically the same thing a year ago.

FWIW I am mostly playing devil's advocate as I am very much pro 26" wheels, I've just come around on 29ers as I've had a chance to actually ride some that are dialled in right. I don't care what the wheel size is so long as the bike is designed and developed well.


Clearly my understanding of contact patch is flawed, I'm glad to have learnt something.

 

[No Skid Marks]

Didn't we have this same conversation when the early Judy Rockshox came out?
Even now with so much technology in bikes, people are still bucking the system and wanting to ride "old school".
Recently I ate my words big time... I'm now riding a 29er 5" trail bike... the only way I can describe it, is that it feels like a motorbike into corners, but climbs just as well as the 26er.
There is simply no question... get a big wheel out in front of you and the handling is amazing.

29er's with great big fat 3.0 tyres, will be dominating DH racing in coming years... these bikes will have a pedal assisted powered rear hub, so you can do your own shuttles... just watch.

I'll bet 29ers are never dominating downhill. 650b very possibly. 29er never.
$50, bet ends in what, 3 years? 5?

 

[Dozer]

but climbs just as well as the 26er.

29er's with great big fat 3.0 tyres, will be dominating DH racing in coming years... these bikes will have a pedal assisted powered rear hub, so you can do your own shuttles... just watch.

Bullshit and bullshit.
Pedal assisted rear hub instead of shuttling? Aahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa! Lay off the smack.

 

[Turner_rider]

Didn't we have this same conversation when the early Judy Rockshox came out?

I don't remember the Judy coming out in a 29er size...

 

[Cronar]

Handy Graph

Here's a Graph taken from some unbiased, peer reviewed research I've been conducting over many years ... I think it's relevant to this thread.

 

[Knut]

I'm now riding a 29er 5" trail bike... the only way I can describe it, is that it feels like a motorbike into corners, but climbs just as well as the 26er.
There is simply no question... get a big wheel out in front of you and the handling is amazing... just watch.

You are known talk a lot of shit Norm, and this is no exception.

 

[casnell]

A graph ! That proves it then...

 

[Trigger02]

Here's a Graph taken from some unbiased, peer reviewed research I've been conducting over many years ... I think it's relevant to this thread.

peer review cannot be argued with unless you still deny climate change, then go for it lol

 

[thecat]

these bikes will have a pedal assisted powered rear hub, so you can do your own shuttles... just watch.

So you want to put all the weight on the back, on an un-sprung rotating member? That'll do wonders for the bikes handling and suspension perfomance

Mid frame is the only place to put a gear box

 

[Propagate]

Here's a Graph taken from some unbiased, peer reviewed research I've been conducting over many years ... I think it's relevant to this thread.

Swap the 26 to 29 on the bottom for 26-HT to 26-FS and your graph holds true.

For those saying 29ers reduce skill requirement blah blah....I guess you all ride fully rigid 26ers?

I sold my Trance dually (26) when I got my 29 hard tail, I just found the 29ht more fun and more direct feel from the trail. I tried going back to the Trance now and again but just felt disconnected from the trail.

Makes me laugh when people say 29ers are taking the skill out of riding but they are riding 5"+ travel at both ends of their 26.

My opinion, FWIW, ride what you enjoy. Personally, at the moment I'm loving my 29 hard tail and will likely try a 29 or 650b dually trail bike in the future but not yet.

 

[rednightmare]

Didn't we have this same conversation when the early Judy Rockshox came out?
Even now with so much technology in bikes, people are still bucking the system and wanting to ride "old school".
Recently I ate my words big time... I'm now riding a 29er 5" trail bike... the only way I can describe it, is that it feels like a motorbike into corners, but climbs just as well as the 26er.
There is simply no question... get a big wheel out in front of you and the handling is amazing.

I think those of us who have been around long enough have a sensible cynicism to trends and fads in mountain biking. There are many instances where the bike industry has taken an idea and pushed it beyond practical boundaries. Remember: 6 pot hopes (8 pot Grimecas!), Monster T forks, Spin and Spinergy wheels, Tioga DH couches/seats, 3 inch tyres, 24" rims (on DJ bikes is okay) etc. etc.

29er's with great big fat 3.0 tyres, will be dominating DH racing in coming years... these bikes will have a pedal assisted powered rear hub, so you can do your own shuttles... just watch.

I don't think this will be happening. No matter how much you tweak the geometry of a 29er, in comparison to a 26" bike you have to contend with:
-longer chainstays,
-higher BB height
-flexier and weaker wheels
-chain growth issues on FS bikes

Simply put, 29ers won't have the agility or durability needed for DH. The fact that there is a big push for 650B suggests that the industry has recognised this and they are seeking to capitalise on the community's acceptance of 29ers and their want for a more responsive, aggressive bike with the roll-over capabilities and grip of a bigger wheel. I think 650B will be huge in the AM scene in the next year or so and start encroaching into the DH market while 29ers will be relegated to strictly XC (no sharp corners!).

 

[No Skid Marks]

I don't think this will be happening. No matter how much you tweak the geometry of a 29er, in comparison to a 26" bike you have to contend with:
-longer chainstays,They can get them pretty short for a hardtail. Not as much need on a dually for rearward axle path for big wheels. Maybe the softride style seat tubes will come back so they can shorten the stays so the tyre's kissing the BB.
-higher BB height No need for higher BB height is there?
-flexier and weaker wheels True. I'm guessing a new axle width standard or new brake mount standard to allow for wider spacing between flanges.
-chain growth issues on FS bikes An axle path parralel to seat tube would be cool, but require idler or gearbox, not that that's a bad thing IMO:hail:

Simply put, 29ers won't have the agility or durability needed for DH. The fact that there is a big push for 650B suggests that the industry has recognised this and they are seeking to capitalise on the community's acceptance of 29ers and their want for a more responsive, aggressive bike with the roll-over capabilities and grip of a bigger wheel. I think 650B will be huge in the AM scene in the next year or so and start encroaching into the DH market while 29ers will be relegated to strictly XC (no sharp corners!).

650b was always the better solution, but didn't really require the customer to buy a whole new bike like 29er. I feel most of this is just marketing.
29er will always benefit taller riders.
I think 650b DH bikes will come, and be used for most tracks. Adjustable drop outs will become the norm so 26" can just slot straight in. Although fork rake/trail will be a mini issue.