650b pfff

eastie

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Mental pictures of you two parading semi's has ruined my night. Unless theres viagra and halicinogens involved, from here in for me its going to be like trying to stuff a marshmallow into a parking meter. I hope that thought comes to you two next time!
 

thecat

NSWMTB, Central Tableland MBC
Physics is science. Science works by proving things.
You have a bad understanding of science. Science works by disproving things. A dozen experiments that support your hypothesis proves nothing. 1 experiment that disproves your hypothesis shows you were wrong and need to change your thinking.


For example niño slaying XC fields on a 29er didn't prove that 29ers were better for XC but the following year when he cleaned up just a dominantly on 650b proved 29" wheels weren't the reason he was winning. If the marketeers decided they wanted to push 22&1/3 inch wheels I dare say he'd win on those too and disprove once and for all that wheel size makes a bigger difference than rider ability

Some one winning a dh World Cup on larger wheels won't prove they are better for dh, simply that 26 isn't intrinsically better of dh for that rider on that particular track.

I've said it before I'll say it again wheel size "innovations" have been great for selling bikes but really have just wasted time and money that could have been spent developing stuff that made a real difference... It's 2013 I want a light weight, efficient frame mounted gear system, no more bent/busted deraileurs or dropped chains, oh and a fucking Hoverboard!
 
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DMan

Sorry, I'm a kiwi
Can you send the name of that shop Opsi? I've been looking for something to carry my little suitcase to work for ages...
 

0psi

Eats Squid
For example niño slaying XC fields on a 29er didn't prove that 29ers were better for XC but the following year when he cleaned up just a dominantly on 650b proved 29" wheels weren't the reason he was winning. If the marketeers decided they wanted to push 22&1/3 inch wheels I dare say he'd win on those too and disprove once and for all that wheel size makes a bigger difference than rider ability
Nino could ride a drunk 3 legged donkey and still win. Ropelato, Smith, Hill, Gwinn and Hart probably would have still crashed if they were riding a 3 legged donkey.
 

0psi

Eats Squid
Does it come in carbon?
What's the Q factor?
I wonder if it's compatible with elliptical chainrings?
There is a carbon prototype with Enve wheels kicking about somewhere.

Q-Factor and elliptical chainrings aren't necessary as the reduced frontal profile means it's faster than anything currently on the market anyway.

I just need to find some little Merida Multivan decals now. The green one is surprising close to Merida green, I'd like my two clown bikes to match :caked:
 

frenchman

Eats cheese. Sells crack.
You have a bad understanding of science. Science works by disproving things. A dozen experiments that support your hypothesis proves nothing. 1 experiment that disproves your hypothesis shows you were wrong and need to change your thinking.


For example niño slaying XC fields on a 29er didn't prove that 29ers were better for XC but the following year when he cleaned up just a dominantly on 650b proved 29" wheels weren't the reason he was winning. If the marketeers decided they wanted to push 22&1/3 inch wheels I dare say he'd win on those too and disprove once and for all that wheel size makes a bigger difference than rider ability

Some one winning a dh World Cup on larger wheels won't prove they are better for dh, simply that 26 isn't intrinsically better of dh for that rider on that particular track.

I've said it before I'll say it again wheel size "innovations" have been great for selling bikes but really have just wasted time and money that could have been spent developing stuff that made a real difference... It's 2013 I want a light weight, efficient frame mounted gear system, no more bent/busted deraileurs or dropped chains, oh and a fucking Hoverboard!
It's not a hypothesis it's a result and a trend. I'm not saying that either wheel is better than the other. I'm stating that right now for Downhill on a world cup level 26" wheels are proven to win. And currently are superior on a world cup level and have to results to back it up.

A 29" wheel winning a round didn't mean that it was better in XC but it proved that it's capable of winning, something the 27.5wheel does not yet have for downhill.
 
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driftking

Wheel size expert
I apologise if there was any doubt (dig at the thread not the person). I found the other thread interesting, I think I understood your point and admired your passion but is/isn't tabata didn't bother me one little bit...which this wheel size argument reminded me of. Look at the progression of downhill over the last 25 years, from downhill fire trails to ever rougher and more technical terrain, as long as downhill keeps going in that direction I don't care what the wheel size is, it is irrelevant...the argument should be about the riding we want to do and having equipment that makes it enjoyable.
My apologies figured you were having a person dig, I agree though the tabata thread was just a personal out lash of frustration about specifics aha, got some good information out of it though with some knowledgeable members getting into it plus I felt better after clearing some things up about the actual study.

You have a bad understanding of science. Science works by disproving things. A dozen experiments that support your hypothesis proves nothing. 1 experiment that disproves your hypothesis shows you were wrong and need to change your thinking.


For example niño slaying XC fields on a 29er didn't prove that 29ers were better for XC but the following year when he cleaned up just a dominantly on 650b proved 29" wheels weren't the reason he was winning. If the marketeers decided they wanted to push 22&1/3 inch wheels I dare say he'd win on those too and disprove once and for all that wheel size makes a bigger difference than rider ability

Some one winning a dh World Cup on larger wheels won't prove they are better for dh, simply that 26 isn't intrinsically better of dh for that rider on that particular track.

I've said it before I'll say it again wheel size "innovations" have been great for selling bikes but really have just wasted time and money that could have been spent developing stuff that made a real difference... It's 2013 I want a light weight, efficient frame mounted gear system, no more bent/busted deraileurs or dropped chains, oh and a fucking Hoverboard!
thank you that was what I was trying to say, you did so ever more elegantly.
 

0psi

Eats Squid
It's not a hypothesis it's a result and a trend. I'm not saying that either wheel is better than the other. I'm stating that right now for Downhill on a world cup level 26" wheels are proven to win. And currently are superior on a world cup level and have to results to back it up.

A 29" wheel winning a round didn't mean that it was better in XC but it proved that it's capable of winning, something the 27.5wheel does not yet have for downhill.
But isn't that a bit like saying a Formula 1 car is the best car to use if you want to win a Formula 1 race? Sure it's proven and it's a trend but that's just because there isn't any other alternative.

Sure the 26" wheel is dominant but how many other wheel sizes are currently racing regularly on the WC circuit? What would happen if you put Graves, Hill, Brosnan, Minaar, Hannah, etc. on another wheel size?

You could have said the same thing about XC 5 years ago. 26" was dominant and everyone poo pooed the 29er because it hadn't won a World Cup. When was the last time a 26" won on the World stage?
 

frenchman

Eats cheese. Sells crack.
But isn't that a bit like saying a Formula 1 car is the best car to use if you want to win a Formula 1 race? Sure it's proven and it's a trend but that's just because there isn't any other alternative.
I don't agree with your analogy because there is an alternative right now. There were guys running 27.5" wheels at the worlds.

Sure the 26" wheel is dominant but how many other wheel sizes are currently racing regularly on the WC circuit? What would happen if you put Graves, Hill, Brosnan, Minaar, Hannah, etc. on another wheel size?
There were 3 sizes at the world champs. Wouldn't the riders run gear on their bike that they thought would give them the best advantage? This includes wheel size, no?

You could have said the same thing about XC 5 years ago. 26" was dominant and everyone poo pooed the 29er because it hadn't won a World Cup. When was the last time a 26" won on the World stage?
And now the 29" fanboys can sleep easy at night knowing that their fabled wheel has been proven to be competitive on a world cup level. I think you are misunderstanding my point. I'm not agreeing / disagreeing with whether or not 27.5", 29" or 36" is faster for rolling. But making claims that it is superior for DH without the results to back it is wrong. Right now the 27.5" wheel still does not have the result that proves they are a fast enough advantage of winning and world cup DH round.


This time next year there will be a 650b on the DH world cup podium. You'll see!
I agree. But this year there hasn't been. So save your fireworks.
 

0psi

Eats Squid
There were 3 sizes at the world champs. Wouldn't the riders run gear on their bike that they thought would give them the best advantage? This includes wheel size, no?
Yes and no.

For one there were only a handful of riders running anything other than 26 and the only real contender would have been Smith who crashed.
To go back to the F1 analogy, it's like having a grid full of F1 cars and two Red Bull X2010s both of which crash. You can't say that the F1 car is the better car when your results are skewed.

Secondly, just because they are racing at the World Champs doesn't mean they get what they want. In fact you'll find a good percentage of the field get their parts from the LBS like the rest of us. Despite 650 becoming mainstream there is still a lack of 650 DH parts, namely forks. Most companies don't even have 650 DH frames available.
 
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