A broken system... (Bourke Street Incident Related)

Jesterarts

Likes Dirt
SOoooooooooooooooooooooo I'm going to be the guys that starts the heated topic about the Bourke street incident yesterday.

I'm connected to the event on two angles:

1. Had two colleagues narrowly missed. We work on Lt Bourke and they returned obviously shaken
2. I have a 3 month old daughter. So every thing I think about it I cannot help thinking about my Ava being taken away like that.

My blood then reaches boiling point when I read things like "There is an extensive family violence history involved" and "He has been coming to our attention more recently over recent days in relation to assaults, family violence-related assaults."

This point towards a failing justice and rehabilitation system. But then, I read about the fact he was on bail, for a violent and psychotic attack on an older bloke over the weekend.

He said he came into his flat with a Bible, sat down and started burning it before throwing the burning book into his face.

"I flicked it onto the floor then he stood up and punched me," Mr Wilson said.

He said Mr Gargasoulas then attacked him. "Give me your keys or I'll gouge your eyes out," Mr Gargasoulas allegedly demanded.
What moronic judge, based on that violent assault, made the call that "Jimmy" was safe to release into the community?

And how if he going to be made accountant for the death and injuries of everyone yesterday?

How broken is our system, when a judge lets someone out after an assault like that, and with a strong history of re-offending and violent unstable behaviour?
 
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Flow-Rider

Burner
He should have been caught at the point when they realised he had a mental condition caused from a drug addiction. There isn't much help for these sorts of people and possibly not much you can do when their brain is totally fried. They can have days when they are totally fine and then have a turn like Doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde.
Our judicial system can be a piece of shit where hardened criminals can walk the streets after they become police informants, not saying it's the case here but must be a reason why he wasn't jailed prior to all of this and most likely some petty loop hole.
 

John U

MTB Precision
There's a fair bit of hindsight in what you say. Sounds like the judge shouldn't have let him go after assaulting the fellow but we don't have the facts the judge was using.

Life involves risks. The huge majority of people are good a huge majority of the time. I think laws need to be made mostly for these people. Making new laws in the heat of the moment isn't a good thing.

It was a fucked up thing he's done. It is also a very rare thing, and by the cops approach probably totally unexpected. There will a lot of analysis on how the carnage could've been prevented. Let's hope the outcomes don't impinge too much of the overwhelming majority who do the right thing nearly always.

Violence sucks.
 

placebo

Likes Dirt
I don't think the judge or the system erred to any great degree. Violent dickheads are always going to be violent dickheads. If the guy had been a bit smarter, or was more religious, he'd have hijacked a semi and driven it into a crowd and hurt a lot more people.
 

Kerplunk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
The guy was on mutiple bails! The poor old guy was attacked while 'Jimmy' was already on bail. He was on mutiple bails for family violence, theft and assault.
The system is fked, this guy's offending was ramping up consistently and was always leading to something significant..
A work colleague of mine and her sister were murdered by a fk bag who was on bail but should have been in jail, he destroyed the lives of their family.. Jill Maher was also murdered by a bloke who should have in jail rather than bail.. There is a pattern of the system not locking the right people up while on bail and I think it's time the gov reviewed the system yet again..
 

madstace

Likes Dirt
I don't think the judge or the system erred to any great degree. Violent dickheads are always going to be violent dickheads. If the guy had been a bit smarter, or was more religious, he'd have hijacked a semi and driven it into a crowd and hurt a lot more people.
Oh great, David Leyonhjelm is on RB. Take it elsewhere, fuckwit :mad2:

The guy was on mutiple bails! The poor old guy was attacked while 'Jimmy' was already on bail. He was on mutiple bails for family violence, theft and assault.
The system is fked, this guy's offending was ramping up consistently and was always leading to something significant..
A work colleague of mine and her sister were murdered by a fk bag who was on bail but should have been in jail, he destroyed the lives of their family.. Jill Maher was also murdered by a bloke who should have in jail rather than bail.. There is a pattern of the system not locking the right people up while on bail and I think it's time the gov reviewed the system yet again..
Everything here is correct. The system's sympathy for violent offenders is fucked beyond all belief. To the OP, I have a 2yo and a newborn, and I can't bring myself to imagine it either. The system has now made this the worst possible reality for the poor families affected. Perhaps its time the judges involved in these massive failings should also wear the charges of the offenders' crimes. Won't bring back the innocent from the dead, but may stop further innocent people being so tragically affected by such poor judgement.
 

Boom King

downloaded a pic of moorey's bruised arse
Oh great, David Leyonhjelm is on RB. Take it elsewhere, fuckwit :mad2:



Everything here is correct. The system's sympathy for violent offenders is fucked beyond all belief. To the OP, I have a 2yo and a newborn, and I can't bring myself to imagine it either. The system has now made this the worst possible reality for the poor families affected. Perhaps its time the judges involved in these massive failings should also wear the charges of the offenders' crimes. Won't bring back the innocent from the dead, but may stop further innocent people being so tragically affected by such poor judgement.
I have a family too, no doubting how tragic it is but to lay the blame squarely at the feet of a Judge is a little simplistic.

They work within a system that allows offenders to be released on bail, so many will be. The system simply can't cope with every offender being incarcerated while cases are ongoing.

We know a few facts about the person that committed yesterday's atrocity but we don't know everything. We certainly don't know what circumstances lead to him being on bail. One thing we do know for sure is that hindsight has 20-20 vision.

Society is fluid and evolving. Different issues arise over time that need analysis and new thinking in order to provide the best solutions. Given where we are today and the new problems we face as a society, it's time for a rethink. What may have been ok 30 years ago is not currently working. This, however, isn't the fault of the judiciary.
 

link1896

Mr Greenfield
I have a family too, no doubting how tragic it is but to lay the blame squarely at the feet of a Judge is a little simplistic.

They work within a system that allows offenders to be released on bail, so many will be. The system simply can't cope with every offender being incarcerated while cases are ongoing.

We know a few facts about the person that committed yesterday's atrocity but we don't know everything. We certainly don't know what circumstances lead to him being on bail. One thing we do know for sure is that hindsight has 20-20 vision.

Society is fluid and evolving. Different issues arise over time that need analysis and new thinking in order to provide the best solutions. Given where we are today and the new problems we face as a society, it's time for a rethink. What may have been ok 30 years ago is not currently working. This, however, isn't the fault of the judiciary.
Exactly. Don't blame the judge for working with current laws, frameworks and guidelines.

Blame our politicians for not keeping up with current issues and adjusting budgets and/or laws to allow said judges more options.

I could never be a cop. How cops can show so much self restraint as seen yesterday is commendable. This offender would not be walking if I got to play bad cop.
 

madstace

Likes Dirt
Oh great, David Leyonhjelm is on RB..... :mad2:
Soooo, this comment apparently got me a ban, but has since passed. I was concerned that it seemed such inflammatory comments could not be responded to as such, and that it was deemed my sole response/input to the thread, but in any case I'm back. Apologies if I outright contravened forum rules, and placebo at least seemed to take it on the chin.

Back to my point on the judge involved, it wasn't my only suggestion to correcting, as outlined in the thread title, a broken system, but at least a way of adding some culpability to their decisions. I don't know how anyone can defend the decision to allow a person with so much violent history to walk free in society. They had plenty of reason to keep the offender locked up, and unfortunately again, plenty of historical evidence that habitual violent offenders will offend again in an ever escalating manner. Mind boggles :der:
 

T.3

Likes Dirt
I have a family too, no doubting how tragic it is but to lay the blame squarely at the feet of a Judge is a little simplistic.

They work within a system that allows offenders to be released on bail, so many will be. The system simply can't cope with every offender being incarcerated while cases are ongoing.

We know a few facts about the person that committed yesterday's atrocity but we don't know everything. We certainly don't know what circumstances lead to him being on bail. One thing we do know for sure is that hindsight has 20-20 vision.

Society is fluid and evolving. Different issues arise over time that need analysis and new thinking in order to provide the best solutions. Given where we are today and the new problems we face as a society, it's time for a rethink. What may have been ok 30 years ago is not currently working. This, however, isn't the fault of the judiciary.
I think its also worth nothing that they also work in a system that allows them to refuse bail.
 

Boom King

downloaded a pic of moorey's bruised arse
Back to my point on the judge involved, it wasn't my only suggestion to correcting, as outlined in the thread title, a broken system, but at least a way of adding some culpability to their decisions. I don't know how anyone can defend the decision to allow a person with so much violent history to walk free in society. They had plenty of reason to keep the offender locked up, and unfortunately again, plenty of historical evidence that habitual violent offenders will offend again in an ever escalating manner. Mind boggles :der:
I take your point but we are looking at things after the fact, which always tends to offer a clearer picture. We don't, however, have all of the information necessary to make an informed decision on the judges actions. Making judges culpable for the actions of people offered bail is just plain ludicrous.
I think its also worth nothing that they also work in a system that allows them to refuse bail.
True. Many are refused bail.
 

MARKL

Eats Squid
Feed your head...

It's been a while since we had one of these threads! People will be advocating the death penalty soon...
Danny Green has started already...

Temp.JPG

Absolute tragedy, sympathies and thoughts for everyone affected.

Hindsight is a great thing, I would hate to be a magistrate making these decisions on a daily basis.
 

Jesterarts

Likes Dirt
I have a family too, no doubting how tragic it is but to lay the blame squarely at the feet of a Judge is a little simplistic.

They work within a system that allows offenders to be released on bail, so many will be. The system simply can't cope with every offender being incarcerated while cases are ongoing.

We know a few facts about the person that committed yesterday's atrocity but we don't know everything. We certainly don't know what circumstances lead to him being on bail. One thing we do know for sure is that hindsight has 20-20 vision.

Society is fluid and evolving. Different issues arise over time that need analysis and new thinking in order to provide the best solutions. Given where we are today and the new problems we face as a society, it's time for a rethink. What may have been ok 30 years ago is not currently working. This, however, isn't the fault of the judiciary.
You are right, the judge is working within a system that allows bail.

However, at the end of the day, he or she should be accountant for their decisions. This case has again put things in the spotlight, but time and time again you see instances where someone who is dangerous is released into the community time and time again. Jill Meagher is another instance that comes to mind.

We don't have all the facts, this is true, so cannot really comment on what additional information was available. But I cannot fathom additional facts would make allowing a extremely violent, repeat offended who was displaying in increasingly agitated and phycotic behaviour out into the community. And to top it off, against the advice of police.

The current system can't cope with every offender being incarcerated, that is also true. But "the jail is too full, lets cut him lose" should not be reason enough.

If the system can't cope, the system is broken.

I have no idea what the solution is, as the problem is too complex and big. But there has to be some accountability for those who make the call, when they get it wrong.
 

Kerplunk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
^^^^ This

The facts we do know is "Jimmy" was well known to police before he was bailed on the weekend.
He is a repeat offender, you can bet your life on it. I have been in bail hearing several times and heard the same BS sob story that their client is no threat and his mum will make sure he reports for bail twice a day. on time.. :rolleyes:
The magistrate has this guys entire history and made a terrible call to allow bail. There is absolutely nothing wrong applying the same level of scrutiny to magistrates/judges that all other professions face.
 

John U

MTB Precision
The system is working as well as it can. What would help it work better would be access to better mental health facilities, drug rehabilitation facilities, violence rehabilitation facilities, etc. If you're dealing with the problem by stopping someone getting bail it's probably a bit late. Ideally the state would have the resources to deal with the issue before it gets to that stage.

You need to deal with the problem before it occurs, way before it occurs, not by locking them up just before it occurs.

If there needs to be some accountability it really needs to fall at the feet of politicians and parties which cut the intervention and rehab services. No doubt these are the same fucks who scream 'Australia's unsafe, lets lock more people up' at election time.
 
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