Adam Goodes - sook or wronged man? / Australia - Racist or Naive or No Worries?

[pharmaboy]

Really! I hadn't heard of "This sort of action that is aimed at riling fans up is banned in other sporting codes." before. I don't think it was like Goodsy was inciting violence.

Maybe the fans are the ones who need to HTFU?

FIFA specifically instructs refs "In the opinion of the referee, he makes gestures which are provocative derisory or inflammatory" the player must be cautioned. It's under rule 12 "excessive celebrations" - applies in the NFL as well.

Footy crowds are a pretty excitable bunch. We don't want our comparatively tame crowds to start going apeshit (scuze the pun) like football fans in England and even some of the Aussie (term used loosely) soccer games

 

[pink poodle]

And from me
The most embarrassing thing I ever saw (and i can't remember what match - pretty sure it was AFL Oz Vs All Blacks)
The response to the haka was the singing of Advance Australia Fair - it was so fucking lame
Why don't we make a traditional Aboriginal war dance something we can be proud of rather responding with a stupid song about a land girt by sea

Fuck me! Are you so blind??? We are so obsessed with being girt by sea that we imprison any fucker who tries to touch our precious water. It is our PM's "strongest" card.

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

The racist stance was only because Goodes moved it in that direction. Every bit of slurring that goes his way comes back as racism.

Firstly the gorilla reference. Greipel gets called gorilla and everyone is sweet with that because he is white. Goodes gets called that and its racism.

If you're not sure why labelling anyone of any darker skin tone as a gorilla, ape or chimpanzee is construed as racism, you really need to get more.

I mean seriously. It's not as if racist bigots making comparisons between people of African descent (and subsequently any other darker-hued ethnic origin) and primates is a new thing. What, do you think the beady-eyed yobbos who used to throw bananas at black players regularly back in the days before CCTV and strict punishments (and who still do so to this day at soccer games in Eastern Europe) were doing it because they thought the players needed a potassium boost? I'm sure Neo-Nazis and white supremacists well-known fondness for making ape noises at black people is entirely unrelated to any racist views they may hold.



This whole gormless "Well I don't think it's racist so obviously it can't possibly be" reminds me of the whole 'Hey, Hey it's Saturday-blackface scandal'. The level of ignorance around what should be a basic social etiquette was staggering then and it's just as bad today.

On the plus side, I did get to have a laugh this morning at somebody so monumentally fucking retarded it's a mystery they're allowed at of the house without constant adult supervision...

http://www.foxsports.com.au/footbal...eportation-tweet/story-fno7mzzd-1227462189999

 

[Calvin27]

If you're not sure why labelling anyone of any darker skin tone as a gorilla, ape or chimpanzee is construed as racism, you really need to get more.

This whole gormless "Well I don't think it's racist so obviously it can't possibly be" reminds me of the whole 'Hey, Hey it's Saturday-blackface scandal'. The level of ignorance around what should be a basic social etiquette was staggering then and it's just as bad today.

Yeah I get it. But it's stupid to say it's ok to call a white guy a gorilla and not a black guy. In both cases the refernce is to specific qualities irrespective of race. To the 13 years old he simply lookes like a gorilla unshaven and bulky. It's his own interpretation that makes it racists. It's not like they are actively targeting all aborigines and throwing bananas at them like in football. This is an isolated incident. The whole black face scandal is also stupid. No one ever complained about the movie white chicks? As much as I disagree with racial portrayal if it's consistent then I say deal with it - Double standards.

FYI definition of racism:
'the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races'

I don't see how booing fits this. People don't like his characteristics and antics, simple. If they start chanting some racists chants (english football) then ok, fair call.

 

[pharmaboy]

This whole gormless "Well I don't think it's racist so obviously it can't possibly be" reminds me of the whole 'Hey, Hey it's Saturday-blackface scandal'. The level of ignorance around what should be a basic social etiquette was staggering then and it's just as bad today.

This happens on both sides though POSM - we've got a bunch of commentators saying it is racism with the obligatory full stop and others saying it isn't.

It's not a binary game though, there is evidence pointing both ways which tells me there is doubt and that while it could be racism it could also be largely due to the other reasons posited in the various articles.

This is the disappointing aspect from my perspective - that we know the answer as some sort of certainty. We can know what's in Goodes head and what's in the commentators heads, but we don't and probably can't know what's in the crowds head.

Being stupid, I looked below the line in some of the news articles, and sure enough, anyone who says they believe it's not race based, is within minutes called either a redneck or a racist. It's hardly helpful when it can't be discussed without name calling .

Does no one see the hypocrisy of generalising that people that boo are racist? Same problem, different label

 

[Big JD]

Yeah I get it. But it's stupid to say it's ok to call a white guy a gorilla and not a black guy. In both cases the refernce is to specific qualities irrespective of race. To the 13 years old he simply lookes like a gorilla unshaven and bulky. It's his own interpretation that makes it racists. It's not like they are actively targeting all aborigines and throwing bananas at them like in football. This is an isolated incident. The whole black face scandal is also stupid. No one ever complained about the movie white chicks? As much as I disagree with racial portrayal if it's consistent then I say deal with it - Double standards.

FYI definition of racism:
'the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races'

I don't see how booing fits this. People don't like his characteristics and antics, simple. If they start chanting some racists chants (english football) then ok, fair call.

The gorilla, ape reference to a person of darker skin is a racist slur. Griepel is called the gorilla because it rhythms- big difference. Someone likes him - he was Australian of the Year
It is not up to us to decide what Goodes feels or should feel. He has been racially vilified in the past- has stated that he feels it is racial now - that is all that matters. Look at bulling in the workplace- you might not think it is bullying cause that is just what happened to you but the person does and that's what matters.
Of course there is a place for booing in sport. Like when Quade Cooper came on the field after stomping on Ritchie's head in the previous game. Or when Italy took a dive in the goal square- the crowd booed and then moved on.
The crowd didn't like the little black man threatening them with an imaginary spear. IMO he should have been fined in the same way someone would if they gave the crowd the finger

 

[Big JD]

Bottom line we keep repeating ourselves

He thinks it is racial and he is struggling with it as a player and as an aboriginal man. That should be enough for everyone else. Who gives a fuck what you think about his ability to cope- he ain't coping.

Imagine if he took his own life as a result of this pressure.

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

Yeah I get it. But it's stupid to say it's ok to call a white guy a gorilla and not a black guy. In both cases the refernce is to specific qualities irrespective of race. To the 13 years old he simply lookes like a gorilla unshaven and bulky. It's his own interpretation that makes it racists. It's not like they are actively targeting all aborigines and throwing bananas at them like in football. This is an isolated incident. The whole black face scandal is also stupid. No one ever complained about the movie white chicks? As much as I disagree with racial portrayal if it's consistent then I say deal with it - Double standards.

FYI definition of racism:
'the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races'

I don't see how booing fits this. People don't like his characteristics and antics, simple. If they start chanting some racists chants (english football) then ok, fair call.

Jesus H. you still don't get it do you?

You can't go calling black people apes. End of Story. It's pretty much lesson #1 in "How not to come across as an ignorant racist bigot". Sure you can call white people apes and it won't cause offence. You can also call white people 'slant-eyed' if you want and it won't cause offence. That's because they are insults that are clearly aimed at specific groups.

This happens on both sides though POSM - we've got a bunch of commentators saying it is racism with the obligatory full stop and others saying it isn't.

It's not a binary game though, there is evidence pointing both ways which tells me there is doubt and that while it could be racism it could also be largely due to the other reasons posited in the various articles.

This is the disappointing aspect from my perspective - that we know the answer as some sort of certainty. We can know what's in Goodes head and what's in the commentators heads, but we don't and probably can't know what's in the crowds head.

Being stupid, I looked below the line in some of the news articles, and sure enough, anyone who says they believe it's not race based, is within minutes called either a redneck or a racist. It's hardly helpful when it can't be discussed without name calling .

Does no one see the hypocrisy of generalising that people that boo are racist? Same problem, different label

Sure, many people who are booing him may not have been booing him for any racial reasons but there are clearly people who are - and also many who have jumped in to the argument afterwards who are proper racists and proud to shout so.

By continuing with the booing when it's already been blown up into a racially divisive issue instead of shutting up and/or targeting your ire elsewhere is basically saying "Well, if we're going to take sides, I'm going to choose to be on the side of the bigots"

You can bleat all you want about it not being a binary issue - and few things in life are - but at the end of the day as soon as it became racial it went binary because there has been too much blood shed and oppression over the centuries and it's been pretty much all one-way.

Me personally, I love been white. Being a white bloke is even better. I've got the fucking world at my feet so I've really got no need to start spitting the dummy like an entitled brat if folk who have had a long history of being shat on by people of similar ethnic background to myself, decide to speak up about it.

 

[Big JD]

nice one POSM

 

[redbruce]

They boo him to get a rise- to put him off his game. Just like my 4 year old does to my 8 year old. Personally I see not place in any sport to boo a player for being him. Boo a poor decision, poor behaviour like Tomic, or the villian - like Paul Gallen or Ritchie McCaw - all in good spirit. Goodes gets booed regardless of his performance- he has stated that he believes it is racist and it affects him and yet the mob still do it. That is poor sportsmanship anyway you look at it. He has been wronged in the past (chip or not) as have the aboriginal people- I understand it would be an issue worth standing up against. There is no place for racism IMO.

Indigenous people should be able to celebrate their culture and I think the spear throwing war dance is great. You will note that they dont actually throw the spear- just threaten. In the Haka they really slit the throats and stand around with their tongues out while the bloke bleeds out. There are 71 indigenous players in the AFL- they should all do the war dance - until the booing stops.

Dont tell me the 13 year old girl wasnt encouraged by her moronic parents or simply following their inspirational lead. He didnt know who said it when he pointed to the stands- it wasnt the first time either, he had had enough. Dont get me started on Eddy Mc Guire or Jason Accker- complete knobs.

Why are you lot supporting the mob. Do you condone this crap in ALF. Pretty fucked sport if you do.

Skydome
"I don't even watch or care about football, but he's being a huge fucking pussy. It makes me want to go to an AFL game with a loud speaker and boo the pansy little cunt."

You are once again out of hand and offensive- I am tried of your racist, redneck, vile, troll rants. You have nothing to contribute to RB or life.

+2 Yep, well said.

You too POSM.

 

[ajay]

Good posts POSM and Big jd. That summarises quite clearly the issues here.

Racism definitely can't be catagorised by intent, that seems to be a huge overlooking by everyone calling him a sook.

 

[pharmaboy]

Good posts POSM and Big jd. That summarises quite clearly the issues here.

Racism definitely can't be catagorised by intent, that seems to be a huge overlooking by everyone calling him a sook.

Racism is categorised by the word "belief"

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
"theories of racism"

 

[Skydome]

......and this here is the problem. People that have absolutely no knowledge of the situation but are more than happy to join in the name calling and heckling. Makes me realise the state with which this country is full of redneck dickheads.

The dude is been a major wimp.

To consider retiring from a 100k+ a year job from getting booed is really going hardcore down pansy Rd.

If I were a black man getting paid 100k+ a year to run up and down a field and got booed or whatever I'd just suck it up because the money is bloody good even if you have to deal with racial taunts; at the end of the day, you are the guy earning many times the salary of the majority of people in the grandstands are.

 

[scblack]

He thinks it is racial and he is struggling with it as a player and as an aboriginal man. That should be enough for everyone else. Who gives a fuck what you think about his ability to cope- he ain't coping.

He's an adult, and on top of that a professional athlete. If he can't cope with the crowd playing antics and booing him, he needs to find a vocation more in kind to his sensibilities.

Regardless of whether the booing was/is racial, it has hit its mark - it has affected the performance of the opposition player. If his mind is more concentrated on whether the crowd is booing than where the ball is that's one player performing below standard. As a person in the crowd, if I can diminish the performance of the opposition team, I'll try it on. Possibly you can argue booing ad infinitum at one person is below the belt, but as I said this is professional sport - not a knitting contest.

 

[ajay]

Racism is categorised by the word "belief"

the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
"theories of racism"

Written a middle class white American no doubt.

I think you'd find a great many people whove felt they've been been racially vilified by someone who "was just playing around". Its the receipt, not the delivery.

 

[ajay]

The dude is been a major wimp.

To consider retiring from a 100k+ a year job from getting booed is really going hardcore down pansy Rd.

If I were a black man getting paid 100k+ a year to run up and down a field and got booed or whatever I'd just suck it up because the money is bloody good even if you have to deal with racial taunts; at the end of the day, you are the guy earning many times the salary of the majority of people in the grandstands are.

Quite apart from your post detailing your obvious ingrained bigotry, 100k isn't that much these days.

 

[pharmaboy]

Written a middle class white American no doubt.

I think you'd find a great many people whove felt they've been been racially vilified by someone who "was just playing around". Its the receipt, not the delivery.

The hurt is in the receipt, but the word is used to describe a belief - I didn't write the dictionary, just quoted it.

It's a fucked up world in which we live if people are judged regardless of their intent - Jesus , even the criminal law recognises intent

Anyway, mike Baird on Facebook seems to be at least trying to settle things down a little

"Adam Goodes is an incredibly talented footballer. He is a passionate advocate for his people and his country. He has received the highest honours in the game. He has been recognised by the nation as Australian of the Year. And right now, he is hurting.
Regardless of the conscious or subconscious motivations of the hecklers, we can all see that Goodsey is hurting to the point of not wanting to lace up his boots. And, whichever team we support, surely we can all agree that risking the premature ending of the career of one of AFL’s great players is totally unacceptable.
There is a place for good-natured heckling in Australian sport. I’ve booed a few Queensland league players in my time (Wally Lewis comes to mind). And some may argue that the line between good-natured and malicious heckling can be fuzzy. But there is nothing fuzzy about this. The line has been crossed.
There are many things we pride ourselves on as Australians… and good sportsmanship is right at the top of that list. The relentless booing of Adam Goodes breaks this spirit of good sportsmanship. It must stop.
Goodsey… I hope you feel the waves of support from the many thousands of supporters that have got your back. I can’t wait for you to get back on the field. When you do, I’ll be cheering loudly for you. And I won’t be alone."

 

[Beej1]

Europeans justified colonialism, and those in the Americas justified slavery, by their firmly held belief that people of African origin were more closely related to primates than their white human selves. They referred to them as apes because they literally believed they were lesser people. How fucked up is that?

I love it how a bunch of white folk on here (and radio, and television) think they're even remotely qualified to comment on how Adam Goodes should be dealing this situation. Moreso a bunch of white folk who'll never in their sad, ignorant lives know what it's like to hear thousands of people booing at you, some or all of which because you're not white.

Totally fucked up.

 

[Skydome]

Quite apart from your post detailing your obvious ingrained bigotry, 100k isn't that much these days.

How did my post show ingrained bigotry?

Actually, I did say 100k+ and considering Adam is at the top of the game, I reckon he's probably on 130k+ P/a

 

[crash3]

...If I were a black man.....

That's just it, isn't it? You're not (presumably, from the above), and have no fucking idea what it's like to be reminded, every day, that because of the color of your skin a large part of the population sees you as sub-human, primitive, or an ape, more to the point.

So maybe, before you go calling him a wimp for leaving his job that he's dedicated his life to getting, if you think of one part of who you are that you have no control over, and imagine that for your entire life, from your first memory, the general population used that single thing to define you, and hold you back. Then, on a weekend supposedly dedicated to celebrating your culture, you celebrate this culture, and from then on out, you're constantly boo'd. Would that not make it seem that's why you're being boo'd?

He's been told his whole life he's not a man, he's an Aboriginal man. He's not an AFL player, he's an Aboriginal AFL player. So for him, he makes this into a racial issue because his whole carreer is apparently a racial issue.

He got boo'd every now and then, fair enough, that happens in all sports. But then he got boo'd some more, and in the round of AFL dedicated to celebrating indigenous culture, he does a war dance, and gets constantly boo'd from there. I try not avoid the whole correlation/causation thing, but does this not seem a bit wrong? Especially with comments from Barry Hall like:

"I understand he is very proud of his heritage and where he's from but I don't like to see this."

Translation: It's cool you're proud to be aboriginal, just don't celebrate it in front of white people please. Not even at the round 'dedicated' to celebrating indigenous culture.

How about we cut the shit, use some empathy, and for the love of all that is beautiful, stop being such a pack of chunts.