Advocating For Legal Trails In Campbelltown NSW

[scuba05]

Hello all, relatively new to the site. Im from Campbelltown in NSW. I have a large section of bush practicly on my back door step.
In our area, many people have tried to build some nice MTB trails, with drops, DH sections and so on. Unfortunatly, a few of these have been pulled down by our local counsil.
Now im only in High School, and for sport we do MTB ridin, and now me and a few of me mates are wanting to start trying to work with our counsil to try and get a section of land or such that will allow us to build trails without the counsil wanting to pull them down. We are hoping to build some DH like trails, and some drops (anything we can find, hopefully above 10ft).
So, we have got some petitions out to our local bike shops, we will be sooon handing a couple out to some mates who know some people, and will start collecting some names to try and persuade our counsil. If you live in the Campbelltown area, please drop into either:
-Bike Mason (queen st, campbelltown)
-Campbelltown Bike Barn (Lithgow St, Campbelltown)
OR
-Camden Discout Cycles(Argyle St){will hopefully hand in a petition there soon}

Any help will be MUCH appreciated, and will hopefully benifit you in some way, Even if you reply with some ideas, advice.

PS- this is also part of an advocacy assignment for school which got our minds thinking

 

[scratchy]

Scuba05 Well done, you've come to the right place. Despite what slipknot says the shear fact that the council has got their head around Motorcross and Skating suggests that they would be receptive to Mountain Biking. Unlike the others MTBing is an Olympic sport.
Check out this thread http://forums.farkin.net/showthread.php?t=55786
Before going too far with petitions, I would actually talk to council workers. Say those who were involved in the process of developing the Skate park. They may be able to point you in a direction to better focus your effort.

Unfortunately Slipknot has the wrong attitude, councils don't give anything. The are lobbied and approached by an organised group who understand that there is a process everything council does has to go through. Start to talk to council and you're already on your way.

 

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

yeh i think negatively i cant help it, i agree but you see if its the area that i think scuba wants to build there is guna be near to nil chance of them granting permission as apparently the area holds the greatest population of koalas in nsw and crap, me and my mates have talked about doing something like this recently but didnt take it any further because of all tha crap associated, it annoys me because our council seems to hate the mtb community they've even cut TREES down in one spot where they tore down a trail to prevent that spot being used as a drop again the illegal trail builders in the area have made it very hard for people like you scuba who want to be able to legally build a trail, im not saying dont try u need to be really prepared with tha council side of crap thou, it would would be a great idea to see a legal trail but its to complicated for me,ill jus stick to getting people to sign ya petition for you good luck with it

 

[scuba05]

I can see where you are coming from Slipknot. We may be fighting a losing battle, but its one i wouldnt mind fighting. We just need to explain to the council we dont just cut down a tree cause we feel lik it, we dont even do it if thers a tree in the middle of our track. The good thing is my dad knows a couple of counsilors n shit so we may be able to work it through them, and also we have lots of leaverage in ym opinion. The skaters all got their skate park(after a couple of years), and even if they knock us back, were still gunna build, cause wer lways gunna b a step ahead of them, plus, i dont think many of them go through the bush actually looking for the trails.
One of the main reasons IMO that the peter meadsows(PM) trails got torn down is cause they were right next to the road and everyone saw them. But the people who built them also built the shores at the top of kentlyn near the primary school, but luckily they couldnt tear them down cause the land was woned by the dept. of land or sumfin along those lines, so it was outta their duristiction.
Theres no harm in trying to get a place to build, and we are more than happy to build the stuff by ourselves, cause i know many people that would help. Im bloody hoping the counsil allows us in the not so distant future to be able to build, as it prob wont be any time soon, but im sure we can just make do with what we have for now, and look around for other places.

 

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

peter meadows probably got knocked down because council workers were working near by and stumbled right across them, theres shore in kentlynn?? where bouts do you want to be able to build a legal track hopefully not where your building illegal ones because apparently people on this site says councillers actually go out and check the land your proposing for or sum crap

 

[boofhead254]

that was a bumber when that happened they had a good run a good drop and jumps there . when i was told that they had pulled it down i was so anoyed with the council . it is also a good idea for having a block of land that the council wont pull down mtb tracks because we need something to do on weekends.

 

[scuba05]

we dont really mind were we build, but we have some ideas where we would like. We wouldnt care if we had to go out to wedderburn(there r some good 1s ther swell). We would just like to get a legal place to build in our area, cause we are all arouns 15/16, so no drivers license. We currently have a few people, including me, writing to the counsil, and will prob go and talk to them sometime in the coming months, and try persuade them to see it from our point of view

 

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

yeh same situation here agewise, a good tip would be to read the threaD scratchy left a link for in this thread it gives tips about how to aproach council and so on or talk to the youth liasion thingy in this area apparently he/she helped the skaters of campbelltown lobby the council for a skatepark and they got one just a thought.....

 

[boofhead254]

well if that is the case then it might help to get a block of land hopefully to build legal mtb tracks and dh trails . If the petition goes well that will help alot with the coucil.

 

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

yeh but only if it was that easy no1 would be building illegal trails, only if i had some goo d land to build on

 

[boofhead254]

thats true but we just have to keep working on the council and soffen them up lol. But a petition if it gets alot of people will help just that little bit more.

 

[FR Drew]

yeh but only if it was that easy no1 would be building illegal trails, only if i had some goo d land to build on

I think often it's more a case that people can't be arsed to go through the proper channels. Certainly, when it's impossible to get any legal trails established then the logical effect is that illegally built ones will spring up. There are a wide number of issues to be looked at before folks will hand over land to you for trailbuilding, especially when they efffectively still own the land and are therefore legally culpable for any injuries that may occur on "their" site.

You'll need to look at risk management including:
-clearly marking technical aspects of the trail so that trail users are warned what they're getting themselves into
-providing B and C lines around the bigger obstacles (You may be fine with a 10 foot drop but there are plenty of riders who are incapable of anything over 1.5 feet)
-preventing damage to habitat and animals native to the area
-proper track design with a view to drainage, erosion etc
-not putting other users of an area (horse riders, bush walkers etc) at risk

See if your local area has a mountain biking club. Try to get on board and see if they can help you to lobby for trails in your area.

Please don't take this as me being picky, but if you speak and communicate with council the same way you do on the forums here, that's probably not helping your case a whole lot. Alot of the time people will make assumptions about how much you respect them or are worthy of their time and support, purely based on how you communicate with them. This includes things like spelling and grammar. If they can see that you've put the effort into researching the issues, providing solutions and making the communication legible and understandable then they're far more likely to be supportive and not write you off as "some dumb pesky kid".

 

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

yeh i know the worst prob out here is how to deal with the koala hippys and tree huggin walkers even though we may not cut trees down illegal trail builders simply dont give a shit and it gives critics reason more to be against a proposal as there are a fair few illegal trails that im sure walkers are aware of as they are in stupid locations i dont think they are members of this forums though so its not as simple to get them to acknoledge there are people out here that want to go through the right avenues like scuba and his mates
besides this i dont talk to the council and i wouldnt intend to unless i was fully prepared i havnt taken any offence to what youv'e stated because its true

 

[boofhead254]

yea, i see what u mean we have set up letters to send to the council about finding away around liability and getting signs put up around to warm people of the tracks. If we do perswade to council then from there on it is still going to be a chalange about were to put it so it is out of the from horse riders and so on. Going about flora and fauna will be abit tricky but should really need to do much stuff to to fauna around the area. Just gotta look out for native plants and for animal nest and burrows if there was going to be any building going on.

 

[mtb_slipknot_fan]

the kinda bad thing ive noticed throughout kentlynn trails motorbike rideing and horse riding are illegal yet we have to watch out for them because they choose to cut through trails that arent built for them, i know i wouldnt whinge if i hurt myself on my track doing a stunt i couldnt handle stiff shit i say if the person is stupid enough to do it they should be able to handle the consuequences but sadly people like to whinge and sue. singnage would be good for awareness of stunts like "does this stunt match your abillity" crap like that..... liabillity is the main reason theres prob no chance of getting ns legitamised straight away every council im sure sees it as a dangerous structure and will rip it down which is a bumer because mine is neccesary and very stable

 

[astroboy]

Some resources for your fight

Scuba et al,

A couple of links and hints that might help:

1. The main line to use in your case is that by having the council provide LEGAL trails in your area that are built to a sustainable level, they can reduce the instance of illegal ones being built (note "reduce the instance". Don't promise illegal trails will disappear). Tell them that riders are more likely to stick to a well designed trail and not head into the bush like walkers and horse riders. Also let them know that a well built trail will not widen - if they need evidence then send them down our way to Canberra and I'll happily give them a tour of Sparrow Hill for you. The trails there are no wider than when the track opened 2-3yrs ago, and it's probably the most ridden XC track in Aust right now with approx 150-200 riders a weekend if the weather is good.

2. Find a trail in your area which has been designed with permission and is built to IMBA standards (if possible). When you find it, take your local officials on a tour, and as you do give them a mini lecture on how the trail applies recognised standards to minimise erosion, unlike crappy trails built by most government officials (funny that). You can try words with officials till the cows come home, but what really works is seeing it in practice.

3. Check out the IMBA website (www.imba.com)for plenty of advocacy resources and tips to help you in your fight. More specifically check out http://www.imba.com/resources/organizing/index.html which is the advocacy toolkit.

4. Get a loan of some spare bikes, and take your officials out on a MTB ride on some of the legal trails (XC would be best here). Let them know that it is a legitimate sport, and hopefully you might even bring one over to the dark side.

5. Check out http://www.mtba.asn.au/general/policies/docs/australianclr2004.pdf which is a summary of law reforms in Aust around liability. You will find that in NSW the land managers are exempt from liability if someone injuries themselves in an 'extreme' recreation activity. The only states lagging are SA and ACT (damn that last one - still fighting to have it changed). This is a good argument against any 'we might get sued' defence.

6. Be aware that advocacy is a case of two steps forward and one step back (and even vice versa at times), so it's not for the impatient. It's a war of attrition - tell them you can offer solutions to their illegal trails and nature conservation problems, and if they are not interested walk away and come back again with the same offer the next time they have to pull down illegal trails. Knocking down and removal of illegal trails is funded out of a limited department budget somewhere so it hurts the council. On the other hand the building of trails out of necessity (in this case because there are no legal ones) is funded by a limitless passion of people who just want to get out and ride (and who are rarely aiming to destroy nature on purpose). By no means do I advocate the building of illegal trails (quite frankly it makes my job alot harder), but I know who I'd put my money on in the long run. It's only a matter of time.

Hope this helps.

Astro
CORC Trails Adocacy Team

 

[scuba05]

thanks for all the various pieces of advies. I will take them all on board when i go to war with the counsil, well lets hope it dont have 2 get 2 that eh . we alredy have about 2-3 pages of petition, i have wirtten 3 letters 2 members of counsil who should(hopefully) take our side as they are sportsmen themselves. Any more advice on how to deal with the counsil would be appreciated, and if you have successfully dealt wif em, PLZ POST and say what you did do. Any info would be much appreciated.

 

[scratchy]

Yes.
After writing letters. Give it about a week and actually talk to them. Calling them on the phone is probably the easiest. But having an informal chat about the issue will establish a relationship and also get you to find out what their actual concerns are.

 

[boofhead254]

yea, we were thinking of getting about 4 people and we were going to go down to the counsil and tslk to some of the members about it.

 

[scuba05]

YEr, we will prob. go down and have a chat with the ralevent parties at the council soon. We are also going to have a chat to a local scout camp, as they have a prime piece of real estate, and plenty of it that we might be able to use a bit of.
Other than that we shall try and get in the councils good books for now, and have a couple more ppl go and write a letter 2 the council n then go ave a chat