Crystal meth

link1896 said:
Great discussion, some great points being made.


I feel this country desperately wants to become the USA, ignoring all the shit parts.
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Are you paralleling the rise in ice usage to the American crack epidemic of the early 80s?
 
pink poodle said:
That is interesting, do they have any comparative stats on illicit drug consumption? Is it rising while these are dropping, or staying stable? An is there any indications of why the drops? Awareness, economics, work, health..?
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Yeah, 2 years old as well though. National Drugs Strategy Household Survey - I have no idea how it is (or if it is) adjusted for confounders, but it's a government source.

Sorry for brief response, on a mobile.
 
Mate works in an Emergency Dept, biggest one in a capital city. "How often do you see a meth addict losing the plot?" I ask. "About once every two or three days" he says. Then, without any prompting, he adds "See someone having major problems with alcohol every day". It may not fit the strict definition of "epidemic", but meth seems all too common at the moment.
The fine tradition of alcoholism lives on too.
 
Mattydv said:
Yeah, 2 years old as well though. National Drugs Strategy Household Survey - I have no idea how it is (or if it is) adjusted for confounders, but it's a government source.

Sorry for brief response, on a mobile.
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The new NHMRC guidelines came out in 2009, and then were quite heavily advertised and promoted - the new levels of safe consumption were about half of the 2001 guidelines ( well, seemed to be a halving of fun to me).

Presumably the survey is conducted to test the effectiveness of the change and the subsequent media advertising of alcohol and it's effects.

I don't think the argument that alcohol causes x many ED presentations versus illicit holds too much water, because that's about size of exposure, not relative risk. If 10,000 people in a catchment drink heavily on Saturday night and 10 show up in ED, there might be only 100meth users of which 1 show up in ED every few days - by definition meth users are going to be on the periphery. I'm using "users" as addicts really as opposed to the trucker use who are almost using it medicinally - they'd use caffeine if meth wasn't available.

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing the reason for using meth is shorter acting - caffeine keeps you awake for a long time after dosing, and pseudoephedrine is now much harder to get over the counter.

There's some irony - are truckies now using illicit drugs because the govt has made pseudoephedrine too hard to get?
 
slippy said:
What argument? Just an interesting observation.
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Fair enuff - it's pretty common though for particularly weed users to go on about alcohol use causing more damage to society but without adjusting for exposure.

But yes young males, Saturday nights, and alcohol mean greater staffing levels required in EDs across the country.
 
Oh that argument. Nah, if anything I think it underlines that meth use is on the rise. 5 years ago you wouldn't have seen anything like those "numbers" coming into ED.

But in terms of "damage to society", the exposure isn't relevant. If alcohol costs society X dollars then it costs X dollars regardless of how many users cause that. I'm certain alcohol would trump all comers, if not worldwide then certainly here in Aus. If your interest is in which drug is riskier to take, that's a separate argument.
 
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"6 days on the road" is the classic American truck driver song. Written in 1963 it already contained the line "I'm takin' little white pills and my eyes are open wide"

Amphetamine use in trucking is not a new problem...
 
You will never exactly know how many meth heads are around, I don't think they are going to all reach out and say "I'm a meth user". It would be like asking if a strange person was a bank robber. I know of a few people I went to school with that were heavy pot smokers that have converted to ice, 3 of them went to rehab, many others still on it. All have lost their jobs and kids, sad but there is nothing you can do to help them, they need to make the decision themselves so they have their own drive to give up and never return to it. Thank Christ I never went near that shit or what ever you believe in, they look like walking zombies and you can see they are very broken people.
 
Mattydv said:
That's 10 year old data, citing some sources ~15 years old. In public health terms, that renders it useless. Give me a day or two and I'll try and find what I was referring to.

Edit: Not the source I was after, but here is some 2 year old data from AIHW.

Excerpt:
  • Daily drinking declined significantly between 2010 and 2013 (from 7.2% to 6.5%) and was at the lowest level seen since 1991. Rates fell for both males and females.
  • Between 2010 and 2013, there was a significant increase in the proportion of people who had never consumed a full serve of alcohol (from 12.1% to 13.8%).
  • Fewer people aged 12–17 are drinking alcohol and the proportion abstaining from alcohol increased significantly between 2010 and 2013 (from 64% to 72%).
  • Younger people are continuing to delay starting drinking—the age at which 14–24-year-olds first tried alcohol has increased since 1998 from 14.4 to 15.7 years in 2013.
  • Compared to 2010, fewer people in Australia drank alcohol in quantities that exceeded the lifetime risk and single occasion risk guidelines in 2013.
  • In 2013, 18.2% of people aged 14 or older exceeded the lifetime risk guidelines. This is a significant decline from 2010 when 20% drank at these levels.
  • The proportion of those who exceeded the single occasion risk guidelines at least once a month also declined significantly from 29% in 2010 to 26% in 2013.
  • People aged 18–39 were less likely to drink alcohol in risky quantities in 2013 compared to 2001, but between 2001 and 2013, there was little change in the risky consumption of alcohol among people aged 40 or older with a similar proportion exceeding both the lifetime risk and single occasion risk guidelines.
  • Although 1 in 6 (15.6%) people in Australia had consumed 11 or more standard drinks on a single drinking occasion in the past 12 months, this was significantly lower than in 2010 (16.8%).
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This is pretty interesting, I am in the 20-25 age bracket and have seen a significant change in the type of drug consumption in people in my age - and not just my social group. Alcohol is no longer the preferred substance and has been replaced with, Schedule 2 type drugs. I think the availability of type 2's is what is causing this change, it is now incredibly available and much cheaper than alcohol. Binge drinking is still a massive problem however.
 
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fatboyonabike said:
i used to dabble in the fine arts, and i can confirm that ice is a horrible, addictive, corrosive drug that needs to be stopped.
its cheap, its easily sourced - but fuck it makes you a crazy person, that thinks they can do anything!
luckily for me, a good woman crossed my path, and helped me off the trail to full blown mental psycosis - but i feel for all those whom cant get off the wagon and get stuck in that downward spiral.
it does leave its trail of destruction in its wake tough, im pretty sure it has left me with more than my fair share of issues.
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Good to hear you shook it. ;) May I ask, what is the result of the high? More active? More alert? I hear fearless etc but what exactly is the high that people look for when taking it?
 
SummitFever said:
"6 days on the road" is the classic American truck driver song. Written in 1963 it already contained the line "I'm takin' little white pills and my eyes are open wide"
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and Willin by Little Feat


"If you give me weed, whites and wine
And show me a sign
And I'll be willin
To keep movin"
 
Flow-Rider said:
I would say this is a large factor In the problem. When you look at the prices in nightclubs of alcohol it all makes sense.
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Couple that with the fact that the nightclub scene has become quite a hostile place. Its subjective, but I put it down to the whole 'get massive/bulking' craze. An example of this would be the last time I went out, a few of my friends have become obsessed with 'getting massive' and now take large amounts of pre-workout mixed with their alcohol. They became incredibly aggravated and stand-off-ish, two of them ended their nights getting into fights with similar types.
 
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I wouldn't be suprised if some media(?) outlets have already reported it as an epidemic. No doubt use is growing accounting for attrition. It's apparently normalised as a club drug. Australia is one of the highest illicit substance users full stop including amphetamines.
 
C0na said:
Couple that with the fact that the nightclub scene has become quite a hostile place. Its subjective, but I put it down to the whole 'get massive/bulking' craze. An example of this would be the last time I went out, a few of my friends have become obsessed with 'getting massive' and now take large amounts of pre-workout mixed with their alcohol. They became incredibly aggravated and stand-off-ish, two of them ended their nights getting into fights with similar types.
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I find this interesting, I get that hostile vibe too. Not that it bothers me as I'm rarely in a nightclub these days. But say 20 years ago if you accidentally bumped someone it would be a 'sorry mate' and that would be it, maybe buy them a drink, have a laugh for being shitfaced etc. Over the last couple of years it feels like every 2nd person wants to roll up the sleeves and go a few rounds over trivial shit that shouldn't matter. It's not gender specific either. Or maybe I'm just getting old...
 
I have never been around these people or thankfully had anything to do with the drug but what happens afterwards for the users? If they don't wind up dead are they going to be of use in our society or does ice just ruin you for life?
 
rollingrambo said:
I have never been around these people or thankfully had anything to do with the drug but what happens afterwards for the users? If they don't wind up dead are they going to be of use in our society or does ice just ruin you for life?
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Not so plain and simple. Every situation would be different. Their social group, ability to seek help, Family and friends, personal willpower and general nature of the person are all factors. Of course they can be useful to society, if they have the resources to help with their addiction and have the willpower to set themselves straight.
 
Mattydv said:
or just crystal meth?.
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All same names for the same shit

pharmaboy said:
I'm not sure, but I'm guessing the reason for using meth is shorter acting - caffeine keeps you awake for a long time after dosing,
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Meth keeps people awake for an incredibly long time.


DJninja said:
Australia is one of the highest illicit substance users full stop including amphetamines.
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Yeah, nah.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2012/jul/02/drug-use-map-world
http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/most-shocking/10-of-the-most-drug-addicted-countries/?view=all

Up there but there are far worse.
Better off with ecstasy any day. When I was clubbing there were never any fights/ king hits all that shit.

I have had the dubious pleasure of watching people come off meth and it is far uglier than alcohol addiction. People bounce of walls brainless and not sleeping for days when coming down from meth. Nasty stuff and I think the fact it is so easy to get causes issues. If good quality more traditional recreational drugs were legal then there would be less issues than we are having now.
Portugal decriminalised evrything years ago and apparently it has been a good thing. I will have to read more about it though.
 
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