Dredging Port Phillip Bay

[nick]

As im sure everyone would be aware by now Dredging will begin in Port Phillip Bay on February 1st. With the idea of bringing Economic benefit by accomodating larger ships through the bay to our Melbourne Port. This is likely to have disastrous Environmental impacts with toxic silt being unearthed and will reduce the marine life. All the algea growing at the bottom is likely to die off when the Bay becomes cloudy and the sunlight will not reach them.

In my opinion not only do the negative environmental impacts outweigh the economic benefit but the condition the bay will be left in will have a negative impact on the economy when you consider its effect on the Industries which rely on it. It is said the diving industry alone brings as much to the economy as it is estimated the dredging will. I imagine Tourism and Fishing would bring in a lot more?

What are everyones thoughts?

You can email Peter Garret and tell him what you think here

Check out Blue Wedges the group against the dredging

 

['Ross]

DREDGE IT!!! We will lose a substantial amount of revenue and business with the bigger ships not being able to come in, it will have pretty severe impacts for Melbourne.

Also the water quality and pollution levels in Melbourne are disgusting, its not like this is going to damage a pristine environment like the Great Barrier Reef or something. I reckon the long term impacts will be extremely minimal.

 

[drewie162]

^^I agree DREDGE IT!!!

 

[leitch]

I reckon the long term impacts will be extremely minimal.

Ever seen the Brisbane River?

 

[l +Jarrod+ l]

Ever seen the Brisbane River?

second that.

 

['Ross]

Ever seen the Brisbane River?

Ive seen the Yarra, and its pretty damn shit as is. A little dredging couldn't go astray

But lots are going on about these incredible environmental impacts, are there any case studies from other cities around the world that have copped a dredging?

 

[leitch]

Oh indeed there are. There are many many studies on waterway dredging and development (such as damming) and their environmental effects. Shit, I wrote a 3000 word essay in senior chemistry on the state of the Brisbane river and what has caused it, and dredging was a big contributor. The problem is not just that dredging causes sediment disruption making the water murky which leads to loss of plant life (pretty hard to perform photosynthesis when there's no light getting to you because of all the sediment and shit in the water), but that that then means that the water has less oxygen in it, leading to loss of other aquatic species like fish etc, and the seemingly insignificant dredging sets of a chain reaction which can really send the waterway to shit.

Edit: As for long term impacts, the Brisbane River hasn't been dredged for commercial purposes (still gets minor dredging near the rivermouth @ Port of Brisbane to keep the channels open) for 10 years, yet its still a brown, polluted, horrible waterway.

 

[dcrofty]

Don't forget the exotic flora and fauna that new big ships can bring, as well as the occasional oil slick.

 

[J_775]

Brissie River downstream of the Bremer confluence and colleges crossing is actually a fair bit cleaner than 10 years ago. Partly due to stopping dredging, but also due to upgrades to the Oxley and Luggage Point treatment plants. The main cause of the lovely turbidity you see in the lower reaches is due to sediment mobilisation from tidal action, not point source and diffuse inputs.

In terms of Port Phillip, would you spend $1billion for only a $3billion return over 16years?? Love how Port of Melbourne Corp (PoMC) is having to pay a $180million bond with taxpayers money to the EPA, who will then monitor with taxpayers money any effects of the dredging. I guess folks need more cheap consumer products from China than they do a sustainable fishery and safe recreation areas. There's also a shitload of contaminants at the mouth of the Yarra. Most of Coode Island is lying there from when the terminal blew up in the '90s. Lots of heavy metals, PAHs and plenty of other partly burnt petroleum and heavy oils.. It's gonna be a nice stench when that all gets mobilised.. Mr Brumby is solving his dilemma of no new hazardous waste dumps by making one in the bay.. It'll be all safe too.. We'll just cover it with sand..

Here's an idea.. Invest some cash in Portland or Warnambool's already deep water ports to get them up to speed. Put in a proper duplicated rail line to the outer western suburbs of Melbourne and use the existing distrubution nodes out there to get the products into Melbourne. No dredging required in the bay.. Much less transport hassles around Port Melbourne, Footscray etc. Puts some much needed investment into regional Victoria at the same time. Mr Brumby seems to channelling Mr Kennett of late.. How to lose the next election 101.

 

[dcrofty]

Too much actual knowledge for off topic mate, keep it dumbed down in future

 

[skivi]

when will people learn that if we keep putting our wallets before the planet eventually all we'll have left is our money.

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

Here's an idea.. Invest some cash in Portland or Warnambool's already deep water ports to get them up to speed. Put in a proper duplicated rail line to the outer western suburbs of Melbourne and use the existing distrubution nodes out there to get the products into Melbourne. No dredging required in the bay.. Much less transport hassles around Port Melbourne, Footscray etc. Puts some much needed investment into regional Victoria at the same time. Mr Brumby seems to channelling Mr Kennett of late.. How to lose the next election 101.

I'm a big fan of the idea of utilising Hastings as a alternative. I dunno if anyone here's been down that way but By Christ! is it depressing?! If there's a community that ever needed an economic shot up the arse it'd be that one!

Snide anti-bogan remarks aside, I'm actually being serious. (apart from jokers on farkin who're just trying to get a rise out of people - Yeah 'ross. i'm talking about you pal!) i don't know anybody who is actually FOR Port Phillip bay to be dredged. Most are vehemently against it for the possible (and TBH probable) environmental impacts.

(Before I continue this rant I must confess I've just returned from the pub so I 'm not really in the mood to go searching out the statistics but believe me, they're out there and they're not pretty in the slightest!)

Anyway at the cost of the Port of Melbourne being able to get in a few bigger ships thus lining the pockets of the Port Authority and companies such as Maersk, Swire, China Shipping, P & O etc. we get to have a massive ecosystem, countless swimming beaches and good fishing grounds seriously fucked up.

And for what?

Seriously, for what?

There aren't any new jobs being created here. Container shipping is almost a completely automated process these days. Ever wonder why you never here about the dockers as a union force these days? That's cos there aren't any! Increased shipping will result in a couple more casual labour jobs at the expense of dozens - if not hundreds of jobs- that are involved in the bay as it is (I'm talking dive companies, fishing charters, tour boats etc.)

Then there's the environmental factor. Now i'm not going to jump to the immediate OMG TOXIC WASTE WILL CAUSE A CLOVERFIELD IN MELBOURNE! type hyperbole but having seen the current state of the silt at the bottom of the bay first hand, I can't help but think 'this is going to be seriously fucking nasty' if it gets stirred up.

Add in permanent high tides at the top of the bay - not good for anyone who lives anywhere from Port down to Mordialloc where it's all pretty flat and where one of the main highways runs alongside the bay at sea level - and this enterprise starts to look as great an idea as the Russians building a nuclear power station in Chernobyl!

Nobody wants it! Other communities could do with the development! So why fucking do it?

 

[sawtell]

I just typed out a MASSSSSIVE reply. and great it didnt submit that is just f-in great isnt it.. now i am to mad about people's opinions and that i have to re-type it to eve nget into the argument.


but for the sake of it, i dont know what to think, there is GOOD reason's for, and well GOOD reason's against t he dredge.

oo oand ross, PPB has MORE marine species then the great barrier reef...

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

oo oand ross, PPB has MORE marine species then the great barrier reef...

Err, I'm not quite sure about that dude. The GBR is pretty fucking big and tropical! Port Phillip -whilst abundant in marine life that you'd never think of - isn't quite in the same scale. This is like the organisers of the St kilda Festival proclaiming (as they do every year) that it's the biggest street festival in the southern hemisphere.

<cough, splutter RIO CARNIVALE cough, splutter>

Just because Blue Wedge have said so, it doesn't make it true. Still it's not exactly a fucking swimming pool either and the only shark I've ever seen whilst diving in Oz happened to be at the bay heads...

Oh, and as for good reasons why?

Mebourne gets to keep it's 'status' as australia's biggest container port. A couple more wharfies get hired (not many though, it's mostly automated these days) and The Port Authority, various shipping companies and the odd dodgy politician get a bit of a cash bonus.

Yay! for even more heavy traffic on footscray road?

 

[sawtell]

Err, I'm not quite sure about that dude. The GBR is pretty fucking big and tropical! Port Phillip -whilst abundant in marine life that you'd never think of - isn't quite in the same scale. This is like the organisers of the St kilda Festival proclaiming (as they do every year) that it's the biggest street festival in the southern hemisphere.

Just because Blue Wedge have said so, it doesn't make it true. Still it's not exactly a fucking swimming pool either and the only shark I've ever seen whilst diving in Oz happened to be at the bay heads...

Oh, and as for good reasons why?

Mebourne gets to keep it's 'status' as australia's biggest container port. A couple more wharfies get hired (not many though, it's mostly automated these days) and The Port Authority, various shipping companies and the odd dodgy politician get a bit of a cash bonus.

Yay! for even more heavy traffic on footscray road?

ey im just going of what i have heard read and been told. by both parties to be honest. We had frequent guest speakers through yr 12 in outdoor ed on the topic... the whole bloody year was on it got a little repeative. i also do no thtink it is inregards to 'fish' more the micro-organisim's.... actually from memory maybe it was more 'ppb has more species unique to the are then the GBR'.. and somthing about some special organism found no where in the world (ey, it was 2 years ago, ive killed ALOT of brain since then). There is also the mangrove's which only grow on basalt rocks here in the bay, at the jawbone reserve in williamstown, probaly about 10kms from the propsed dredge site...

You dont see good reason's cause you dont want to see good reason's.. no matter what you say about containers becoming automated in regards to unloading..
Every container that comes in to the docks is unloaded BY a person, on a forklift, or by hand. well every dock i have seen/worked at is.

There is more work, as there is more import's, imports go to wharehouse's wharehouse's need picker/packers. pickerpackers need bosses. they need food for lunch. etc etc ey its not much but it counts.

really i live damn close to the majority of the dredging. (williamstown) and yeah my beach will be pretty fuking dirty for a long time, the water around my home which i use ATLEAST 4 times a week for spearing, fishing, swimming, kayaking and the infamous BAY WAVE, maybe not be useable for a while.. MAY not be i should ad, there is still no proof, or a 100% sure idea of what MAY happen in the long term or short term.

The main area's of toxin's get dredged once every few months any way, just there is no up roar about it as it has been going on for years. and at night most of the time.

as you can see i dont really have a stand, but i have been brain washed (maybe cause i like to suck up to the bracks family.. damn he has a sweet pool table.) to belive it has to happen, to keep melbourne has a primary port.

 

[PINT of Stella. mate!]

I'm afraid your arguments don't really ring true. The imports will still come in as we the consumer still want our luxury goods so there'll be no redundancies in the shelf stacking industry. As for creating more jobs in docking? Surely having a new purpose built container port down on the coast in an area of current economic stagnation will do more good than increasing the capacity of one in a heavily built up area where house prices are a lot less affordable for the average stevedore.

Then there would be the jobs created in updating the road and rail links to the South East to accommodate the new port. These would prove beneficial to not only the port itself but everyone in the South East suburbs. Finally if having a rival port in the southeast started to spell the end of Melbourne's port I'm pretty sure there'd be more than a few investors quite happy to take that prime piece of centrally-located-great-water-views- real estate off the government's hands.

Think about it. The bike routes from the city to the western suburbs could be attractive, green and a lot safer without the massive trucks screaming past and the views across the bay needn't be spoiled by massive container ships cruising past.

 

[sawtell]

I'm afraid your arguments don't really ring true. .

i wasnt having an argument about it, ey i stated points from good and bad.

Think about it. The bike routes from the city to the western suburbs could be attractive, green and a lot safer without the massive trucks screaming past and the views across the bay needn't be spoiled by massive container ships cruising past.

i quite like boats. nothing beats fishing and trying to cast at a huge ship, then have your live spooled by it.

and bike routes could be a lot better, if they were a continous route, not broken up into section's of road, dirt tracks and nice bike track.





EDIT: i just realised that my post really didnt have the other side, my original post did sorry.

and also. no one will know what will happen with the dredge if we do or we dont drdge, there is still no guarrantee that these 'super tankers' will take over... and lastly there is still the argument that the dredge is pointless as they are pretty much just depening the chanel's when the 'new' ships wil be a lot wider.. i know you cant trust either party, but didnt the blue wedge's make up a simulation of what piloting a ship through the chanels will be like, and something like 4 out of 5 PPB shipping pilot's grounded on the edge's on their first few goes.

 

[skivi]

"How can we sleep while our bay is churning?"

BAHAHAHAHA

 

[Matt H]

DREDGE IT!!! We will lose a substantial amount of revenue and business with the bigger ships not being able to come in, it will have pretty severe impacts for Melbourne.

How can you lose something you haven't yet got? Have large ships ever come in, and no longer can't due to changing conditions or have they never come in?

 

[pryaz]

Definitley against dredging. Having bigger ships be able to pass through the bay should not come over the evironmental risks of dredging