Helmets - are you really covered?
- Thread starter jimnobob
- Start date
Mr Franky
Likes Bikes
I shopped around for a couple of weeks for a new TLD helmet. I searched through CRC and other online stores in the UK and in the US. I found only a few sites in Aust. that sell TLD, and after all the searching, I asked my LBS, not even realising they can stock them. I managed to get a 2012 Steve Peat D3 Carbon for basically the same price as the US (I ended up paying $499, where as the US sells them for $450). CRC was well over $600, and other stores had older models for more than what I paid.
So if you are considering a new TLD helmet, don't bother about buying overseas, check first with your LBS. (Not a plug).
So if you are considering a new TLD helmet, don't bother about buying overseas, check first with your LBS. (Not a plug).
Harmonix how long ago was this? Are Rosebank the tester of every helmet in Australia?
From the RTA website: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/bicycles/helmetandgear.html
As of October 2010, there are three JAS-ANZ accredited bodies that can certify bicycle helmets to comply with AS/NZS 2063. These are:
BSI (As seen in Stinky1138 post)
Global-Mark
SAI Global (would be the more sticker you see)
Came across this article from which I gather was about 2007 (referenced from other forum posts).
http://bicyclingaustralia.com/node/267 Interview with Jim Brady product manager at Rosebank.
The latest Standard is 2008 with an amendment issued in 2009.
More recently (2010) there was a change to Supply of helmets with the old 1996 standard
http://www.productsafety.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/974624
rone
Eats Squid
skwiz05
Likes Bikes and Dirt
I was led to believe that the Fox Flux issue was not a safety thing...but a possible patent infringement issue? My Flux was purchased in Oz, where the straps were NOT threaded through the rear straps/brace/support, as they were in other countries....( Well documented that Fluxes landed in Oz were different for Some reason , than other countries.)
But alas, regardless, they were identical helmets.
I just had to re-thread thestraps to make them function as they should......
I dont think the Flux then is a good example at all of a helmet being modified to meet Aus standards........
But alas, regardless, they were identical helmets.
I just had to re-thread thestraps to make them function as they should......
I dont think the Flux then is a good example at all of a helmet being modified to meet Aus standards........
Clyde Dave
Likes Dirt
Here is the problem. If a helmet can be sold for $95, why the hell is the retail price $200?!
Fair enough have a mark up, we're all trying to make money, but let's face it, mark ups are getting ridiculous!
Even if said helmet was $150, the fact it is closer to overseas will see some people buying here because it is easier, and not that much of a difference. Only need to attract a couple more customers to bridge that $50 gap, sell more of them and actually make more money than you would with a larger mark up.
Probably because he has made a complete loss on one helmet to either a favoured customer or because of other products he has also purchased. Happens all the time - spend $1000 or 2 (or 3 or 4) in one shop and you can often have something else 'thrown in' as an apparent 'thank you'.
Can also be a copuple of other reasons - one ofwhich is the product being heavily discounted simply isn't selling so by doing this (apparent highly cut price) it gets him some money back for what he has paid to have it in stock AND got it off his shelf.
Clyde Dave
Likes Dirt
All good points, but let's face it, how many people do you know that primarily shop overseas?
We all know that that there is alot of room to move with RRP, so instead of complaining, why not try to bring some of the people who shop overseas back locally?
Quite a few - but they also balance it up with requirements for local support, warranty etc. And don't be surprised if, at some time in the near future, you start seeing things happen as they do with vehicles - if they don;t comply, they won't be allowed in. It only needs a Gerry Harvey to make enough noise about it....
How do they know...
The setting up of our current standard is done by committee that involves the Aust Standards and other interested parties and they examine all the other world standards and if they need to modify them. Thus other standards and procedures would be studied.
How do I know this?…because I was on one of these committees and did precisely this.
Simple, as per the Australian Standards testing, all of the procedures for worldwide testing are set out in a manual. Here it is called the Australian Standard - other places it's called something else
The setting up of our current standard is done by committee that involves the Aust Standards and other interested parties and they examine all the other world standards and if they need to modify them. Thus other standards and procedures would be studied.
How do I know this?…because I was on one of these committees and did precisely this.
wilddemon
Likes Dirt
Plenty of room to move
well, a complete loss would infer that he gave it away. If LBS owner lost all of his stock he would claim it on insurance if he had it. This isn't a chicken and egg argument. The reason he is selling the helmet at a discount is because someone asked him to. The reason that he can is because of a large markup. Poor choices in stock acquisitions, yes, he may need to cut prices to recoup losses, but this is not what we are talking about.
Let's face it, LBS is not going to offer to meet whatever online price you could find just because you are wearing a fox t-shirt or have a bit of grease under your fingernails. And they aren't going to advertise to slash prices if you would otherwise go online and buy it. It's up to us as consumers to say "hey mate, I wanna shop locally, but how about helping me out a bit too?". If the LBS has a good attitude to this, and employs people that are empowered to make decisions, then it makes sense to cut prices. Then it's all about word of mouth. Anyone in Wollongong will know which LBS is much more expensive than the others, and as a results noone except nonethewisers or needinahurrys actually shop there.
well, a complete loss would infer that he gave it away. If LBS owner lost all of his stock he would claim it on insurance if he had it. This isn't a chicken and egg argument. The reason he is selling the helmet at a discount is because someone asked him to. The reason that he can is because of a large markup. Poor choices in stock acquisitions, yes, he may need to cut prices to recoup losses, but this is not what we are talking about.
Let's face it, LBS is not going to offer to meet whatever online price you could find just because you are wearing a fox t-shirt or have a bit of grease under your fingernails. And they aren't going to advertise to slash prices if you would otherwise go online and buy it. It's up to us as consumers to say "hey mate, I wanna shop locally, but how about helping me out a bit too?". If the LBS has a good attitude to this, and employs people that are empowered to make decisions, then it makes sense to cut prices. Then it's all about word of mouth. Anyone in Wollongong will know which LBS is much more expensive than the others, and as a results noone except nonethewisers or needinahurrys actually shop there.
Any store will only sell something if, overall, they can make a profit - it's called business. So if a compolete order covers all the costs, an item can be sold at a loss - it doesn't mean it has a large markup. Average markups are around 30-35% and not much more for goods purchased from a distributor (wheher they are local or international). Goods manufactured locally or in shop are the exception to the rule - as this was a helmet, I would expect a $200 rrp helmet to cost the shop around $120-$135 - this gives the shop ample to play with whilst covering freaight-in cost and other expenditure incurred in running the shop.
You alse need to realise that a shop price cannot be realistically be compared to an on-lione price - for the simple reason, selling on line doesn't incur the cost of staff, shop rental and other associated costs. In may cases on line sellers quite often don;t even carry stock - they are ordered in as required.
You alse need to realise that a shop price cannot be realistically be compared to an on-lione price - for the simple reason, selling on line doesn't incur the cost of staff, shop rental and other associated costs. In may cases on line sellers quite often don;t even carry stock - they are ordered in as required.
You clearly know nothing about online shops. TBSM? No staff? No stock? Just drop into their store one day. CRC? Ditto (check their website - they provide employment for a whole town!).
Binaural
Eats Squid
Let's be realistic here. If a event refuses to cover the medical expenses of a rider who suffers head injuries while wearing a reputable brand of helmet sold elsewhere in the world then they're going to get sued for failing to provide a safe course or event, which is a far worse outcome. And speaking as someone who's been through the insurance claim process twice after being hit by cars on the road, I can confirm the biggest insurance companies in Australia are only interested in whether you are wearing a helmet at all, not with whether it was approved to AS/NZ standards.
That said, the event organisers are within their rights to limit their entrants to people gullible enough to pay 2-3 times over the odds for their helmets, but let's not pretend that the organisers can or would deny you coverage should the worst happen in a race.
I think that is a BS argument for the most part (sure there are some online stores that operate that way - Both in Australia and overseas) but let's look at some of the big online sellers that we are all familiar with (and that most people would buy from).
They all have the same asssociated costs as a 'Bricks & Mortar' shop - Staff (from web to ordering to warehouse/packaging), Warehouse facilities, Plus overheads for all things web.
Wiggle http://www.wiggle.co.uk/h/option/About-Wiggle
Wiggle.co.uk started out as 'Butlers Cycles', a small independent bike shop in Portsmouth that had been trading since 1920. After an initial success of selling bike bits and various other items online Wiggle.co.uk was officially launched in 1999. From there we have grown and expanded to our current 45,000 sq foot warehouse where at any time we can be stocking over 250,000 products.
Evans Cycles http://www.evanscycles.com/help/about-evans-cycles
The first shop was originally known as F.W. Evans Cycles and was located on Kennington Road in south east London. Trading from this site for thirty years F.W Evans Cycles built up a strong reputation as a quality cycle shop and in particular building its own frames and bikes.
The business continued to prosper and soon out grew its original distribution centre in Leatherhead. In 2001 the head office and distribution centre re-located to a new 50,000 square feet unit in Gatwick, Sussex, which is still the company’s base (although this has now grown to 125,000 square feet). Has 40+ Stores with it's name.
CRC http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Help.aspx?HelpTopicID=124
Chain Reaction Cycles was established in 1985 and has grown from a small family-owned bike shop to the world's biggest online store.
Main 100,000 square foot warehouse which houses 90,000 product IDs and where we ship to over 115 different countries around the world. Which has a showroom adjacent to it. CRC also has a 10,000sq ft Store http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Help.aspx?HelpTopicID=49
Jenson http://www.jensonusa.com/company/aboutus
From Trailhead sales to mail order to online
With over 20,000 items in stock, expert customer service, and a state-of-the-art 74,000 sq ft facility
Jenson USA operates two locations:
Corona, CA Superstore - Full service department for tune-ups, fork installs, and other labor, 200+ complete bikes on the floor, plus parts and accessories from today's best brands.
Riverside, CA Will-Call Window - Fast and easy access to thousands of items from our mail-order warehouse using a kiosk system.
TBSM http://tbsm.com.au/#
tbsm.com.au (The Bike Shed Mortdale) is a growing independent bicycle store located in Mortdale NSW, established in 1997.
our web store and our retail shop front are run out of separate locations.
The same can be said for most LBS too. As they don't hold large volumes of stock in an array of sizes.
The argument of street shops and warehousing should ring your bells straight away - the cost of running and maintaining the two are vastly different. In terms of stock, a retail shop front has to have the products there and in stock. Warehousing/online *may* have them in stock but don;t have to maintain a stock level - they will order as required. Staffing - contentious as a retail outlet (in Australia at least) usually opens 7 days with consequent pay rates. Majority of warehouse outlet are 7-4 (i.e. reasonable non-penalty hours) and M-F only - no penalty or weekend rates to pay.
Whichever way you look at it, having a poublic shop front IS more expensive to run/maintain and therefore adds to retail cost.
As to 'have I done this' - copped flack for a number of years selling specific products to motor sport from retail stores because I was able to cut the price to the competitor because I didn;t have the overheads they did, therefore couldn;t match my prices. I priced on what I thought the competitor would pay, not on how much I could ream out of them. Stores did not like this but - tough!
Edit (old age/forgetfullness)
And, of course, the other reason helmets/equpment/parts are cheaper from overseas? No GST or local taxes - so straight away you expect anything purchased from OS to be at least 10% cheaper...
Whichever way you look at it, having a poublic shop front IS more expensive to run/maintain and therefore adds to retail cost.
As to 'have I done this' - copped flack for a number of years selling specific products to motor sport from retail stores because I was able to cut the price to the competitor because I didn;t have the overheads they did, therefore couldn;t match my prices. I priced on what I thought the competitor would pay, not on how much I could ream out of them. Stores did not like this but - tough!
Edit (old age/forgetfullness)
And, of course, the other reason helmets/equpment/parts are cheaper from overseas? No GST or local taxes - so straight away you expect anything purchased from OS to be at least 10% cheaper...
Last edited:
Coaster
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Hi Guys,
I guess I face the same situation as many posters, I need a new lid and am frustrated by the cost difference between the local and OS costing of the same item. When looking lately I was curious to see a few Lazer helmets on Wiggle where they state that they meet AS standards. Here's one below.....
Lazer Helium
So does that means that they'd ship with the stickers, and if not (which I suspect would be the case) can it be used here even if the helmet has passed but there's no sticker?
As a by note the other aspect that gets to me is that not only are the on line stores cheaper (and no, I'm not looking for that old argument) but they are also up to date models, where as you walk into many LBS and they're charging a lot more for a lid a year or 2 older.
Cheers,
Coaster
I guess I face the same situation as many posters, I need a new lid and am frustrated by the cost difference between the local and OS costing of the same item. When looking lately I was curious to see a few Lazer helmets on Wiggle where they state that they meet AS standards. Here's one below.....
Lazer Helium
So does that means that they'd ship with the stickers, and if not (which I suspect would be the case) can it be used here even if the helmet has passed but there's no sticker?
As a by note the other aspect that gets to me is that not only are the on line stores cheaper (and no, I'm not looking for that old argument) but they are also up to date models, where as you walk into many LBS and they're charging a lot more for a lid a year or 2 older.
Cheers,
Coaster