Indoor MTB Park - A survey that needs your input.

[Pump House]

Hey everyone,

This has been posted in the Victorian Watering Hole forum, as it's going to be a Melbourne project, but it's predominantly directed at dirt jumping, street, park and pump tracks... So you guys would probably be most interested.

We are currently investigating the feasibility of setting up an indoor MTB park somewhere in metro Melbourne. The inspiration is coming from Ray's Indoor MTB Park in Ohio, so if you've seen it, or heard of it you'll know what we have in mind. If you haven't seen it, check it out here.

We realise that Melbourne already has Rampfest, and we're not trying to rip off their market, what we plan to offer is a more MTB oriented facility, with dirt, and foam and all the things MTB riders want... Along with some nice smooth plywood.

What we need from you Rotorburners is five minutes of your time, to help us out with a little survey. If you do, you'll go into the draw for a $50 gift voucher at BSC bikes.

So, click here, fill out some questions and we'll hopefully see you soon at The Pump House.

 

[Jimass]

Looks fantastic! Can't wait on more of it!

 

[aero165]

Sounds kick ass!!!

 

[hallsyhoods]

gotta have Indoor Dirt Jumps!!!!

 

[normdouglas]

I would have thought that indoor parks like Rays exist because for many months of the year there is snow all over the ground in Ohio. Here is Aus, we don't have this issue...

I don't see the merit in an indoor facility here in Australia? MTB is an outdoors sport, with the wind in your hair, and dirt beneath your wheels. An indoor park could never recreate that in my opinion.

These parks certainly do look fun, but nothing beats the real thing.

Sounds like a good business venture, and anything to get more people involved in our sport the better.... good luck.

 

[Pump House]

Hey Norm,

The success of Ray's could largely be contributed to the weather, but what also makes it a successful business it that it offers a lot of variation in one place.

Places like the You Yangs, offer great XC and DH riding, but no jumps, pump tracks or skate park style riding, and the reverse is true of local jump/skate parks. What an indoor facility like this offers is a venue where you can try it all... with the exception of straight up DH riding, regardless of the weather.

Sure MTB is rooted in the outdoors, but with miserable Melbourne winters and scorching hot summers, your riding days are limited, not to the same extent as they would be in Ohio, but restricted none the less.

Also, take into consideration the younger generation, who want to ride but can't get to places like the Youies, or Lysterfield et al. A facility like Rays, in close proximity to a train station allows them to ride without the need to monopolise their parents time o their hard earned days off.

A monitored indoor MTB park also ensures a safe(er) environment for people to ride, issues of bullying, harassment and other anti-social behavior would not be accepted and quickly dealt with, so parents would feel more comfortable knowing their kids we're in a safe environment.

Then there is the factor of legal trails/jumps and maintenance of these areas. To many 'council built' jumps fall into a state of disrepair, or are poorly built to begin with, as a result they never get used, and riders look for other places to build, and often do so illegally. A privately owned set of jumps and tracks would be meticulously maintained and regularly updated, it would have to be to ensure patrons are happy to fork out the cash.

So, in short... Sure, you could attribute some of Ray's success to the local environment, but I think there is a lot more to it, and there is most definitely a market for it here in Melbourne... At least that's what survey results are telling me so far.

 

[Dj Boi]

so lucky wish they would make 1 in brisbane and 15 for a day is a bit rich should be around 5 max

 

[Zyphryss]

so lucky wish they would make 1 in brisbane and 15 for a day is a bit rich should be around 5 max

*facepalm*

Pump House, I love this idea!
Been sending the poll around to everyone I know, and the response has been very positive indeed...

Oh, and the facility will be for 26" only yeah? None of this 24" BS

 

[normdouglas]

Hey Norm,

The success of Ray's could largely be contributed to the weather, but what also makes it a successful business it that it offers a lot of variation in one place.

Places like the You Yangs, offer great XC and DH riding, but no jumps, pump tracks or skate park style riding, and the reverse is true of local jump/skate parks. What an indoor facility like this offers is a venue where you can try it all... with the exception of straight up DH riding, regardless of the weather.

Sure MTB is rooted in the outdoors, but with miserable Melbourne winters and scorching hot summers, your riding days are limited, not to the same extent as they would be in Ohio, but restricted none the less.

Also, take into consideration the younger generation, who want to ride but can't get to places like the Youies, or Lysterfield et al. A facility like Rays, in close proximity to a train station allows them to ride without the need to monopolise their parents time o their hard earned days off.

A monitored indoor MTB park also ensures a safe(er) environment for people to ride, issues of bullying, harassment and other anti-social behavior would not be accepted and quickly dealt with, so parents would feel more comfortable knowing their kids we're in a safe environment.

Then there is the factor of legal trails/jumps and maintenance of these areas. To many 'council built' jumps fall into a state of disrepair, or are poorly built to begin with, as a result they never get used, and riders look for other places to build, and often do so illegally. A privately owned set of jumps and tracks would be meticulously maintained and regularly updated, it would have to be to ensure patrons are happy to fork out the cash.

So, in short... Sure, you could attribute some of Ray's success to the local environment, but I think there is a lot more to it, and there is most definitely a market for it here in Melbourne... At least that's what survey results are telling me so far.

Well articulated... and as I said in my post, I wish you all the best. You raise an interesting point about the very young guys and girls with transport and bullying etc, which I'd never thought of.

As for the price... back in the dark ages (1986 ish), I was a vert skater... and lived in Brisbane. We used to go to a large indoor facility (no council built stuff back then) and pay what I think was about $15 for a half day ticket. It was a very good place, but probably nothing better than some council built stuff these days. Therefore, I would think that $25-$30 is easily within the market. I know that Mike Kidd charges $40 for his DH tracks in Apollo Bay, and has no trouble filling the quota.

So as I've said, good luck, and so long as there truly is some variety (read not just jumps) then I'll be there for sure.

 

[Damienp]

$15 a day is blindingly cheap.

I doubt you have thought all that hard about what this thing would be costing these guys to set up. Sure you might get some sponsorship but the value of that support would most likely be small. This would not be an overly cheap exercise and then there is things like rent to consider let along insurances.

So with that in mind i would say $15 is too cheap for the day. Providing the place is build right and has enough variance to be entertaining.

I see these places as being great for introducing newcomers to more technical terrain. You would be able to incorporate a skills area where newbs can come along and test they're skills and progress their riding on trail features.

You only have to look at ray's and Seattle's Collonade (Not a pay to play venue, but still an outstanding example of under cover trails) to see that if done right these facilities can prosper.

 

[Dj Boi]

$15 a day is blindingly cheap.

really you would have to buy a year pass cause 15 everytime will add up fast

 

[Tristan23]

really you would have to buy a year pass cause 15 everytime will add up fast

I know that when you're 13 and are only earning $20 pocket money a week, $15 every time you enter may seem like a task, but the reality is there's no way the owners/managers of this venue will be able to survive charging anything less than that. I know exactly...1 rider who won't want to pay that amount, and that's you. Try to look at it from less of a childs perspective - $15 for a whole day is nothing.

 

[Dj Boi]

true and yeh i cant just pull $15 everytime i want to go to a place like this cause i am 13 lol

 

[Pump House]

Well articulated... and as I said in my post, I wish you all the best. You raise an interesting point about the very young guys and girls with transport and bullying etc, which I'd never thought of...

[clipped]

...So as I've said, good luck, and so long as there truly is some variety (read not just jumps) then I'll be there for sure.

Thanks Norm, we'll need a bit of luck for it to happen, there is a lot of planning and a lot of money required and it's not likely to happen in the next 6 months or even 12.

And you comment on how well articulated my post was suggests you think i'm 'just another kid with a big idea'... Well, I wish I was still a kid, but alas... I am not, but I do have big ideas.

$15 a day is blindingly cheap.

I doubt you have thought all that hard about what this thing would be costing these guys to set up. Sure you might get some sponsorship but the value of that support would most likely be small. This would not be an overly cheap exercise and then there is things like rent to consider let along insurances.

You're right, $15 is far too cheap but as Dj Boi stated, any more than that is a real stretch for a youngen with no job and earning $20 a week pocket money. In reality we'd most likely have a schedule of pricing, allowing younger kids to ride at a reduced price, maybe even a standard concession rate... But it's a little too early to think about the exact pricing structure.

We have thought about it extensively, and are under no illusion about how much it i likely to cost... we are estimating an initial build of $150k -200k, which when combined with running costs makes this quite an expensive business venture.

So... Send the survey out to as many people as you can, we need to get as much data as possible in order to justify putting everything I have behind this.

 

[Dj Boi]

yeh thats alot of money to build but alot of people will ride it and will have a good riding spot in melbourne. and do u think they will do 1 in brissy cause i would kill for 1

 

[FR Drew]

I think this is an absolutely brilliant idea and something seriously lacking in many places.

Having pushed shiz uphill for 4 years now to get even a pilot project of legal dirt jumps off the ground against the immovable morass that is the planning and approvals process and the bureaucracy I send a big cheer your way.

Really the only downside with private folks doing this is that it enables authorities who should be allowed to, to shirk their obligations by not providing the facilities that the community needs. Why should they get off their office ridden butts when someone else can solve the problem for them?

Rays doesn't survive due to the climate, Rays is going great guns because it meets the needs of the riding community as a kick arse venue.

 

[patto_15]

I'd look into how Rampfest runs and operates, as they are raking in the money, like making huge profit margins and have already covered their initial costs just over one year of being opened. You could learn a lot from them

 

[Pump House]

Id be keen to pick the brains of the Rampfest owners, but i'm not too sure how willing they'd be to pass on their knowledge to a possible competitor... Even though what we'd be doing is quite different.

 

[Damienp]

Thanks Norm, we'll need a bit of luck for it to happen, there is a lot of planning and a lot of money required and it's not likely to happen in the next 6 months or even 12.

And you comment on how well articulated my post was suggests you think i'm 'just another kid with a big idea'... Well, I wish I was still a kid, but alas... I am not, but I do have big ideas.



You're right, $15 is far too cheap but as Dj Boi stated, any more than that is a real stretch for a youngen with no job and earning $20 a week pocket money. In reality we'd most likely have a schedule of pricing, allowing younger kids to ride at a reduced price, maybe even a standard concession rate... But it's a little too early to think about the exact pricing structure.

We have thought about it extensively, and are under no illusion about how much it i likely to cost... we are estimating an initial build of $150k -200k, which when combined with running costs makes this quite an expensive business venture.

So... Send the survey out to as many people as you can, we need to get as much data as possible in order to justify putting everything I have behind this.

I wasn't insinuating that you guys hadn't thought of the cost implications at all. There wasn't the other two posts there when i started writing my post. So that part of the post was aimed at DJ Boi. As was my indication that $15 was insanely cheap for what could be had.

I am right behind this idea as it's something that could really open up the sport to more and more people.

 

[normdouglas]

And you comment on how well articulated my post was suggests you think i'm 'just another kid with a big idea'... Well, I wish I was still a kid, but alas... I am not, but I do have big ideas.

Not true... I was just stunned to see well written, grammatically correct and well thought out, mature comment here on this forum