Indoor MTB Park - A survey that needs your input.
- Thread starter Pump House
- Start date
normdouglas
Likes Dirt
Hang on a minute... you're 13, and you have just submitted a forum post, without a hint of "txter" language... now look what you've done to my sterotypes.
Are you really 13, or are you a moderator in disguise?
.Alex.
Likes Bikes and Dirt
he is 13,
13 and pins the dh trails hard
bethextrem1
Likes Dirt
From Sydney to Melbourne
There are also interstate people who would travel to such a place.
Surfice to say that I'll be heading down to mexico when this is up and running.
There are also interstate people who would travel to such a place.
Surfice to say that I'll be heading down to mexico when this is up and running.
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Wow - I really think that everyone here is missing the point. Indoor mountain bike parks are lame. Here are my reasons why.
1) For some reason, people have been lording 'Ray's' in Ohio as the pinnacle that any effort in Melbourne might hope to achieve. If this is really the standard that you are aiming for I think the best advice would be to give up now. Did you actually look at the facilities at Ray's? They are designed for 5year olds! There is nothing remotely difficult about any of the 'stunts' and anything that has been built has obviously been constructed by people with little to no actual mountainbike experience (case in point - the 'bermed' corners are ridiculously shallow). If you want this thing to be actual mountainbiking Rays cannot be your business model.
2) So now I'll anticipate the response to my first point from the Rotorburn unshaven masses - "We'll just make it properly and put in cool stuff, it doesn't matter what you (I) think about Ray's (although any response I am likely to get will be sans punctuation)". This point fails for two reasons (though I am sure that there are more). Firstly - 'north shore' ramps are not cool... ever. Secondly, the Ray's business model is such that it relies upon the whole park being easy (lame) enough for little kids and booners so they can make enough money from admissions. People who can actually ride a bike are a minority - and a minority that will see the inherent lameness of attempts to build indoor mountainbike tracks so you can count them out of your costings. If any indoor park wants to make money they will need to make the facilities easy - really easy - so they get the school holiday crowds and corporate groups. Face it - any indoor facility will necessarily need to be lame in order to survive commercially. Just go look at the demographic that features on the Ray's promotional materials - go on, do it. What's that you say? Rampfest is pretty hard and makes money, well, my friends, that is because rampfest caters to a market - indeed an entire sport - that is focused around jumps and park riding. The modern 'dew-tour' essence of BMX is built up ramps and jumps - though even now some purists still think that indoor BMX is lame compared to real trails and street.
Mountainbiking as a sport is centered upon dirt, nature, hills, drifting, technical challenges, steep terrain. Indoor parks cannot replicate this and and will fail commercially if they attempt to do so. Indoor BMX park can be cool-ish, indoor MTB will need to take some miraculous, presently unimaginable, step forward to meet even this lower standard.
I havn't really re-read this post but I hope you get the point...
1) For some reason, people have been lording 'Ray's' in Ohio as the pinnacle that any effort in Melbourne might hope to achieve. If this is really the standard that you are aiming for I think the best advice would be to give up now. Did you actually look at the facilities at Ray's? They are designed for 5year olds! There is nothing remotely difficult about any of the 'stunts' and anything that has been built has obviously been constructed by people with little to no actual mountainbike experience (case in point - the 'bermed' corners are ridiculously shallow). If you want this thing to be actual mountainbiking Rays cannot be your business model.
2) So now I'll anticipate the response to my first point from the Rotorburn unshaven masses - "We'll just make it properly and put in cool stuff, it doesn't matter what you (I) think about Ray's (although any response I am likely to get will be sans punctuation)". This point fails for two reasons (though I am sure that there are more). Firstly - 'north shore' ramps are not cool... ever. Secondly, the Ray's business model is such that it relies upon the whole park being easy (lame) enough for little kids and booners so they can make enough money from admissions. People who can actually ride a bike are a minority - and a minority that will see the inherent lameness of attempts to build indoor mountainbike tracks so you can count them out of your costings. If any indoor park wants to make money they will need to make the facilities easy - really easy - so they get the school holiday crowds and corporate groups. Face it - any indoor facility will necessarily need to be lame in order to survive commercially. Just go look at the demographic that features on the Ray's promotional materials - go on, do it. What's that you say? Rampfest is pretty hard and makes money, well, my friends, that is because rampfest caters to a market - indeed an entire sport - that is focused around jumps and park riding. The modern 'dew-tour' essence of BMX is built up ramps and jumps - though even now some purists still think that indoor BMX is lame compared to real trails and street.
Mountainbiking as a sport is centered upon dirt, nature, hills, drifting, technical challenges, steep terrain. Indoor parks cannot replicate this and and will fail commercially if they attempt to do so. Indoor BMX park can be cool-ish, indoor MTB will need to take some miraculous, presently unimaginable, step forward to meet even this lower standard.
I havn't really re-read this post but I hope you get the point...
Pump House
Likes Bikes
We are not wanting to replicate Ray's, we want to take the Ray's concept and modify it to suit the demands of Melbourne riders, hence the survey.
Ultimately we want to keep dirt! As you said, dirt is requirement, mountain biking doesn't exist without dirt... And we'd be kidding ourselves if we wanted to build a plywood park and ignore the roots of mountain biking.
The reality is that you need to have a beginners area. Everyone has to start at the beginning some time, and offering a safer (closer to the ground) area for people to practice on is essential. So to just build everything big would eliminate those who are new to MTB riding.
We still want to have room for people to progress, from beginner skills areas, to pump tracks, rhythm loops, dirt jumps, street sections and some good "North Shore" starting small and building to some decent stunts.
Your criticism isn't unwarranted by any means, but Link... Understand this, we plan to do this well, we want to create a place to cater to people of all skills and all disciplines... Only time will tell if we can pull it off.
Pump House
Likes Bikes
Just a reminder people... There is a $50 gift voucher up for grabs! So get in and fill out the survey.
We've had a lot of great suggestions, so keep them coming.
We've had a lot of great suggestions, so keep them coming.
elliotdhmcgeary
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Would it be only MTB specific? If it is it'd get nothing near the traffic that places such as Rampfest do, a plus for the mountain bikers with it being less congested, although a minus for a business.
All in all i think it really depends on the quality of the park, if it's anything less that excellent i think people will just stay to their local spots rather than making the extra effort to come, although if it's of good quality, i'm there!
I want a massively raised northshore, with foam below. HINT (;
All in all i think it really depends on the quality of the park, if it's anything less that excellent i think people will just stay to their local spots rather than making the extra effort to come, although if it's of good quality, i'm there!
I want a massively raised northshore, with foam below. HINT (;
Pump House
Likes Bikes
It wouldn't be MTB specific, but would be directed at MTB riders more than BMX, and unlike Rampfest, scooters, skates and boards wouldn't be permitted.
Pump House
Likes Bikes
Just a bump to remind everyone that the survey closes at the end of the month, so if you want to go in the draw to the $50 voucher, you'd better get in and fill it out.
NSR
Likes Dirt
24" bikes are considered a mountain bike... They are just a bit smaller.*facepalm*
Pump House, I love this idea!
Been sending the poll around to everyone I know, and the response has been very positive indeed...
Oh, and the facility will be for 26" only yeah? None of this 24" BS
I think with the entry fee, there'd be people that will be willing to pay at least $15, or there are the people that think that its a bit of a rip off. If the entry fee covered the whole day, I'd be more than happy to pay the $15 or so dollars. I do think it is a bit unfair that when you go to Rampfest, you only get a certain timeslot that you have to get all your riding done in. Its too bad for you if you rock up and only have an hour of riding left before you get kicked out...
I think that the entry fee should be for a whole day pass, that covers entry and exits to local shopping centres and stuff, or an afternoon pass that gives you a certain amount of time to ride in, instead of 'time slots'.
The mountain bike park is a really good idea, and if it is situated close to, or in the city, a lot more people will ride there rather than drive an hour or so out to Rampfest (which is a bit of a pain).
Pump House
Likes Bikes
The city is pretty much out, unless someone has a 3000m2 warehouse they want to donate to us. The most 'central' property we have come across, that has enough room and isn't ridiculously expensive is in the Reservoir area, but the most suitable places are further out, towards Oakleigh, Cheltenham etc.
If you want it all in one location, it's gonna be further out.... that's all there is to it.
If we have enough clearance to build a 4X track, and enough floor space, sure... But it doesn't look hopeful.and it needs an indoor 4x track...because melbourne has no 4x tracks...and niether does rays i think
Pump House
Likes Bikes
You could probably get away with 2000m2, but you wouldn't get as much of everything... so it would mean sacrificing a lot.
We'd like to find a place closer to 3000-4000m2. There are a few around now, just on the edge of zone 1 trains... but by the time we get ourselves sorted they will be long gone.
We'd like to find a place closer to 3000-4000m2. There are a few around now, just on the edge of zone 1 trains... but by the time we get ourselves sorted they will be long gone.