Is buying parts from CRC and having the LBS install them okay??

[MountainBikeMike]

CRC is the new model. The traditional bike shop is going to die a grisly death. All bike shops will become is mechanic/service centres. Those that do this first with 'no attitude attached' will win!!

I dont think this will happen, but it certainly is a threat. I've seen and heard of a fair few service and workshop-only buisnesses and they run a really good buisness, but people will still source their bikes and clothes from their LBS due to warranty, sizing, and freight costs.

Clothing is easy to get sizes wrong, especially in shoes. Having to return items wastes a fair bit of moolah on freight costs. Same applies for overseas warranty. A bike sent from overseas even pretty cheaply is also going to be over $100, and CRC wont do the free shipping deal on bikes.

CRC cuts out the importer, distributor, shipping, and the expense of running a retail shop. Hence, factory direct to customer! You can't beat this model!

On price... and yes CRC do run a retail shop at the same location (100,000sq ft and counting). Check out the pictures in their 25 year history run-down..

[I know of plenty of bike shops that now source directly from CRC. It is cheaper than buying from the wholesalers!

I work wholesale and still do the occaisional online buy due to the price, but its only the things that generally wouldn't go wrong or need warranty. I also try things on beforehand from mates and do my research on sizing, etc. (btw I'd get shot for admitting that around here )

Another thing I sort of agree with is lowering the maximum value before we get taxed for overseas orders... but what about for things that aren't distributed by an AUS distributor????

P.S. Another vote for learning to do shit your self or get mate to do it.

 

[PSYCHO-T]

If you install what you can they wont get overly offended,
I try buy as much as i can from my LBS but just 2 days ago i was told to order what i was after off the net buy the store owner, his reasoning was fair, being "what it cost for him to order that part + p&H + labour + a mark up > me ordering part+ p&h and labour".

His store is not overly great for getting specific parts in so he said it was easier for me to order it.
So go talk to your LBS and see if they will or wont mind.

 

[flamshmizer]

CRC (along with other online shops) is killing the bicycle industry in Aus. Think about it like this: you buying from CRC is stimulating the UK economy not Australia's. So the more you buy over there, the more expensive parts will get over here. Because wholesalers wont be selling as much, meaning they have to put there prices up to survive, meaning your LBS will have to charge more.

Sorry mate but you are wrong. Its a buyer driven economy. You need only look at the second hand bikes to realise this. I'm sure many people would like to sell their near new V-10's for nearly what they payed for them, but the buyers are not willing to pay that much. Hence why most go for around 5-6000 when in parts they would be worth much more.

If you don't beleive me, just look at your model. Distributor is going under, not selling enough stock because everyone thinks its to expensive. So he UPS THE PRICE which means even less people buy it and kaput distributor is gone. Or, if he lowers his prices, he will attract more customers, have more sales (even with lower profit margin) and he will stay in business. The customers are not the villians.

Besides, those who want the service and support will buy from their LBS, those who think they can manage on their own and will take the risk will buy online. And thats the way it will be for many years to come.

 

[Misplaced]

CRC (along with other online shops) is killing the bicycle industry in Aus.

Bollocks! what its killing is an old, tired greedy business model that needs a rocket. Shops and operations that have adapted are thriving.

Think about it like this: you buying from CRC is stimulating the UK economy not Australia's.

Double Bollocks! Case in point -Little Johnny has $60 to spend on shiny new bike part. He can either buy at LBS for $60 or for $20 at CRC. So he buys from CRC and what happens to the rest of the cash? He spends it on Beer! Beer stimulates the economy at a greater magnitude than bike parts. Its made here ( unless you buy imported) packaged here, moved arpund on trucks here, served in frosty glasses here...all of which requires labour and creates jobs.

The Australian Government is aware of this. At the moment anything purchased over seas that is worth less then $1000 is not taxed. They need to lower it to something like $400-$500.

Although thats one idea its not the answer, the bigger focus needs to be reducing import taxes and costs on importers here, thats the bigger picture.

 

[TMLS1]

I don't know who's killing the bike industry in Australia
But if it's CRC, well good luck to them

It's like the old 'made in China' chestnut
People won't pay the higher prices to manufacture in Australia- simple as that

So why pay twice as much to support the Australian bike industry when the prices are too bloody high
Bike shops need to adapt to the changing world rather than relying on government tariffs

Something needs to change with the bike shops before they can compete with OS
It's not up to the customer to change in order to help the Aussie bike shops

Bike shops do a lot more than sell parts
Maybe they need to concentrate on other parts of their business
Smart operators will thrive, the others won't

Not sure anyone is saying manufacture in Australia as this is not happening in many industries and you would get the economies of scale to keep costs down. Now, to say making 1000's of parts and shipping to America and Australia from the Taiwan manufacturer is much different they're taking us for mugs and is why people buy o/s. Look at the size and weight of most MTB parts, it's not a lot. Or try and work out what a brand/distributor could fit in a 20 or 40ft container. If they filled one when the dollar was great (like the last 6+ months), surely they are getting the discounts the US stores are getting. I'm in an industry that when the US$ goes down, prices come down in Aus. First to drop pricing at the new conversion gets a jump on their competitors and you can even hedge with banks as a business. Now, wonder why that doesn't happen with MTB'ing in Australia. Ebay companies are selling even cheaper than CRC or Jenson.

Definitely don't think the LBS is has much say on what price they get with a limited distribution network. I was after some stuff recently and wholesale was more expensive than the RRP in the US by a long way. Would like to know if any bike shops get told not to advertise certain brands at a discounted price or not online or otherwise.

 

[S.]

CRC (along with other online shops) is killing the bicycle industry in Aus. Think about it like this: you buying from CRC is stimulating the UK economy not Australia's. So the more you buy over there, the more expensive parts will get over here. Because wholesalers wont be selling as much, meaning they have to put there prices up to survive, meaning your LBS will have to charge more.
The Australian Government is aware of this. At the moment anything purchased over seas that is worth less then $1000 is not taxed. They need to lower it to something like $400-$500. When they do this more people will buy things from there local shop stimulating the Australian economy, making things cheaper.
This is not just happening in the bicycle industry.

RANT OVER

Glad i got that off my chest.

Business is a lot like Darwinian evolution - the fittest survive, and the useless shitboxes die out. Over time, this weeds out the crappy parts of the industry, as determined by the customers, and leaves only the businesses who best provide what the customers want. What the Aussie bike industry generally sucks at realising is that the CUSTOMERS dictate what the INDUSTRY does, not the other way around. Why the hell should I pay double for a part that my LBS is more than likely going to have to order in anyway, when I could get it sent to my door in the same time anyway?

Businesses are not charities. They have to EARN our money, not expect donations from us, and if they're getting chewed up and spat out by online shops then that's their problem. It's up to them to find a way to be competitive within the market, and if they can't then it's actually to the BENEFIT of the consumer base that they leave the market (either by going out of business or by changing their target market).

Seriously imagine if you wanted to buy some fresh fish, and you went to queen vic market, found lots of vendors selling fresh trout for say $5/kg, then one guy up the end wanting $10/kg for the same trout, then bitching that you weren't "supporting him" and that you were "killing his business" by not paying him double for no reason. It's a completely selfish and childish argument. If you want to make money you have to earn it from your customers, not get angry at them and demand that they pay you. In my opinion the Aussie industry is SLOWLY improving simply because it HAS to. Monza for example were pretty good about trying to cut prices to be more competitive with online shops (unfortunately they dropped their prices right before the Aussie dollar completely died about 18 months ago, and nobody really directly saw the benefits as the two pretty much canceled each other out), but the likes of Shimano, who DO buy in huge quantities, do not have any real excuse for their stuff still costing twice what it costs from a retail store on the other side of the planet IMO.


Back on the original topic - if your LBS bitches about it then find a new LBS. They'll charge you the full price of labour for sure (maybe even a surcharge, though they'd be stupid to advertise it as such instead of advertising discounted rates for fitting parts purchased through them) but if they don't want to do it then they're retarded and deserve to be ditched. Don't need to be a dick about it by rubbing it in their faces that you bought it elsewhere, but they have no good reason to get uppity about you sourcing parts from ANYWHERE else, be it another LBS, 2nd hand, or online.

 

[maxwolfie]

Seriously imagine if you wanted to buy some fresh fish, and you went to queen vic market, found lots of vendors selling fresh trout for say $5/kg, then one guy up the end wanting $10/kg for the same trout, then bitching that you weren't "supporting him" and that you were "killing his business" by not paying him double for no reason.

I see where you are coming from (and agree with you), though I think that the "overseas buying" thing (Euro/CRC vs Aus/LBS) changes things a little, as you aren't benefiting the Australian economy.

Then again, the fish are probably from fuckin' Thailand anyways.

 

[D_Nine]

Still a little of topic but consider this,CRC's customer base is the world.The Aus dist services Aus,the LBS as the name suggests is Local.Volume reduces cost therefore cheaper pricing.Dirtworks is pushing there suppliers hard and I have noticed price drops there.But its still volume.And I think you will find that CRC is actually in Ireland and they are not members of the EU and therefore not restricted by price parity restrictions.Still having said that I believe that most LBS's are run by people that understand reality and should have no trouble taking your "labour" dollars !

 

[placebo]

I see where you are coming from (and agree with you), though I think that the "overseas buying" thing (Euro/CRC vs Aus/LBS) changes things a little, as you aren't benefiting the Australian economy.

Bike gear is primarily produced in Taiwan, and marketed by American companies. It's just another import on our balance of payments ledger. There isn't any domestic industry offering any import competing alternative. Basically the Australian MTB "industry" just offers shipping and handling at wildly optimistic margins. If DHL can ship me the foreign made parts I want from a place half-way across the globe, cheaper and quicker than I can get the same foreign made parts from somewhere in Australia, why should I pay more for the same service just because the provider is based in Australia. It's a form of protectionism, and economically inefficient with a higher end cost to consumers in our economy.

 

[DeBloot]

Not sure anyone is saying manufacture in Australia as this is not happening in many industries and you would get the economies of scale to keep costs down.

I didn't make myself very clear
I was drawing a comparison to the way some people complain about products being made in China and the way some people compalin about buying bike parts from overseas and not Australian bike shops.

To me it's the same lame argument.
We should support Aussie. I agree. But not when it's twice the price.

 

[hach_bee]

Just my two cents from working in a bike shop, and now a retailer both at which we have had MANY customers come and waste our time to buy online (rant for another time...)

Biggest pointers with online buys: unless the bike shop asks, don't tell. It doesn't make them happy to know you bought from CRC, but don't expect to get free fitting/servicing charges.

Also the problem is that sites like CRC are buying from the same factory that for example, Shimano Australia is. CRC's prices are the same as the retailer's BUY prices in Aus, then apply shipping, freight, margin, small order charges etc is what bumps the prices up so high here. On 90% of Shimano gear (again for example) you'll find around 100% margin max, which really is shiat all. These numbers are based on gear that I've sold and supplied, having seen cost and staged increases in prices. That said, RRP's in alot of gear is coming down this year, unfortunately not nearly enough for our locals to have a fighting chance against CRC.

Secondly, online buyers piss off LBS's when they come in with their online purchased part for a warranty issue. The general reaction you'll get is 'Sorry mate, you dug yourself that one'. Obviously, online parts are only covered by warranty in their country of purchase, and you're gauranteed to piss people off it you try and get it repaired through an LBS (especially those who lie and say they bought it at said LBS)

I do purchase from CRC but do so understanding that I will have to pay for installation or do it myself, and taking the chance that it's not a dud. I think as long as buyers are informed, go for it. But in the defence of the LBS, just keep up your servicing with us!

 

[tprmc78]

Just my two cents from working in a bike shop, and now a retailer both at which we have had MANY customers come and waste our time to buy online (rant for another time...)

Biggest pointers with online buys: unless the bike shop asks, don't tell. It doesn't make them happy to know you bought from CRC, but don't expect to get free fitting/servicing charges.

Also the problem is that sites like CRC are buying from the same factory that for example, Shimano Australia is. CRC's prices are the same as the retailer's BUY prices in Aus, then apply shipping, freight, margin, small order charges etc is what bumps the prices up so high here. On 90% of Shimano gear (again for example) you'll find around 100% margin max, which really is shiat all. These numbers are based on gear that I've sold and supplied, having seen cost and staged increases in prices. That said, RRP's in alot of gear is coming down this year, unfortunately not nearly enough for our locals to have a fighting chance against CRC.

Secondly, online buyers piss off LBS's when they come in with their online purchased part for a warranty issue. The general reaction you'll get is 'Sorry mate, you dug yourself that one'. Obviously, online parts are only covered by warranty in their country of purchase, and you're gauranteed to piss people off it you try and get it repaired through an LBS (especially those who lie and say they bought it at said LBS)

I do purchase from CRC but do so understanding that I will have to pay for installation or do it myself, and taking the chance that it's not a dud. I think as long as buyers are informed, go for it. But in the defence of the LBS, just keep up your servicing with us!

I buy a lot of my larger parts online and when I take the bike in for a full service I if I have not got time too fit them ask if they can fit these parts as well. I never expect free installation. I have not got time to service my bike properly so I do not mind paying for the service from the LBS.

I would love to get all my parts from LBS as they are a great bunch I just can't afford to replace items like cranks and forks at shop prices.

 

[Magura]

As it's been pointed out previously in this thread:

"Build up a bit of courage, get a set of tools, and learn to fix/-maintain your bike"


This will not only make the service you receive, turn out to be out of the ordinary, but you will also get your bike fixed on weekends, and even on a race day, on the track/-trail.

Add to all that, that the quality of the work can be much higher, than what I usually see in the LBS around here, and at zero (zip, nada, nil, you know what I'm getting at) cost, I see no reason not to.

Once you get familiar with fixing your bike, and installing parts, you'll never let the LBS touch your bike again.

I guess it should also be mentioned, that fixing a bike is not rocket science.
If help is needed, it's no further away than the nearest computer.
I bet it will be a rare occasion, that nobody will be able to help out on-line.

So, dive in mate, it's no big deal.


Magura

 

[S.]

I see where you are coming from (and agree with you), though I think that the "overseas buying" thing (Euro/CRC vs Aus/LBS) changes things a little, as you aren't benefiting the Australian economy.

Then again, the fish are probably from fuckin' Thailand anyways.

Yeah but the only reason I'd want to support the Australian economy is for my own benefit in the long run, but the reality is that my income isn't going to double if I start paying double the price for bike parts. Still better off buying online if you do all your own mechanical work and know what you're after. For better or worse (IMO for better!) the business world is pretty ruthless. You have to EARN your customers, not expect charity from them.

 

[jet-ski]

Crc

I agree that bike shops need to adapt or die! That's capitalism, baby.

I've recently ordered $500 worth of stuff from them for my Surly Long Haul Trucker. I did this because I could not get a built-up stock Long Haul Trucker from a LBS in my size in a reasonable amount of time. The frameset is coming from JensonUSA. It was the only place online I could get one, it's last years because there are no 2010 46cm truckers around either (until like, late June). For this reason I'm not into the idea of reducing the limit before the taxes kick in. There is a lot of stuff that Dirtworks doesn't even stock, like a 42cm LHT frame - I saw a post on another forum from a woman saying she would have to wait a year if she wanted one. It is a volume issue, but people paying a premium for parts from LBS isn't going to help Dirtworks.

But my vote is DIY. I am planning on doing everything I possibly can myself, but if I run into issues I have no qualms paying for labour if I need something done.

 

[*INFERNO*]

I don't think it should really matter. As far as I'm aware, a bike shop workshop is there to perform fitting and maintenance to your bike. Shouldn't make you obliged to buy everything from them that you want fitted. Ofcourse they'd rather you did, and it's great if you do, but you can get many things from many places - gifts, ebay, here, and, yes, off the net. It's not really any of the bike shop's business where you got it. It's still business for them. and let's face it, they'd lose a reasonable amount of business if they refused to fit parts that weren't purchased through them I'd think. All that said, I wouldn't partucularly feel right taking a big box of stuff with CRC written all over it into a shop and asking them to build my frame up..

Yep, no different than taking your own oil/filter into your mechanic to get a service.

 

[retroenduro]

Yep, no different than taking your own oil/filter into your mechanic to get a service.

i actually used to do that cos otherwise the mechanic would just put cheap oil in it and some crappy cheapo filter

 

[dunndog]

I guess another point to make is that not every shop stocks every product. By my own lbs' admission, if they have to order something specifically it'll cost significantly more than buying something they have stocked on their shelf. So although you may trust them and their workshop skills, it's almost a given that you will be supplying atleast some parts not purchased from them right? Unless you're just happy to have any make/model parts.. As a matter of fact, just this week while my bike was in the shop they actually referred me to another shop to get a bolt and bearing replacement kit for my glory as they don't deal with giant. So with this in mind it'd have to be a bit hypocritical to then turn around and have a spew about stuff ordered from CRC right?

 

[Reign Rider]

CRC parts

Look the last straw with my LBS was when they charged me $100 to supply & fit a chain & that was them "looking after me".

From that point on I have been doing it myself or with a mates helping hand. I now chat with a different LBS who if I can't get it cheper online get my cash,but has also been a great source of knowlage.

My vote get some tools & learn your bike.......
p.s not long replaced my bb last one clapped out wasn't done up at all after asking first LBS to look at it since my bike was new!?!?!?!?!

 

[Tomas]

you'll find around 100% margin max

100% margin, that's the jam! An industry i want to be in for sure!

Be careful with margin and markup, they may sound the same, but they mean vastly different things.