Bermshot
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I thought that was a common well known fact. Now if i'm wrong then it must be the media, who's media?
Israel ship attack [PAWN content]
- Thread starter dcrofty
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Moggio
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Johnny is being pedantic.
During the 2008 and 2009 when the wars were happening there was severe malnutrition and cases of starvation in the population. This is reported even in the jewish press like Haaretz.
Currently things are a little better but there are still malnutrition and health issues. So from the UNISEF 2010 Humanitarian Action Report
During the 2008 and 2009 when the wars were happening there was severe malnutrition and cases of starvation in the population. This is reported even in the jewish press like Haaretz.
Currently things are a little better but there are still malnutrition and health issues. So from the UNISEF 2010 Humanitarian Action Report
So you may not have children walking around skin and bones like in a famine but things certainly aren't exactly fine and dandy.
Yeah I'll agree with that, life is horrible there but starvation is not the issue.
and you say it's me being pedantic, yet if it were a media outlet saying stuff like this rather than a forum it would be called sensationalism. In a game where both sides work overtime to shape the perception of reality it is worth getting it right if you want to have a valid opinion.
Now, go check the levels of malnutrition and vitamin deficiency in some Northern Territory towns, Russian cities, Chinese cities, Johannesburg, Vilnius and many other countries that are not under blockade.
and you say it's me being pedantic, yet if it were a media outlet saying stuff like this rather than a forum it would be called sensationalism. In a game where both sides work overtime to shape the perception of reality it is worth getting it right if you want to have a valid opinion.
Now, go check the levels of malnutrition and vitamin deficiency in some Northern Territory towns, Russian cities, Chinese cities, Johannesburg, Vilnius and many other countries that are not under blockade.
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Bermshot
Banned
Exactly, if anything is to be valid in this sitch you have to be thinking clearly. Now I'm being quite restrained even though I want to fly off the rail, but that would serve no purpose.
Perhaps those kids aren't starving because their parents have dug holes all over Palestine and are bringing in their own goods. When a group of people have to resort to such measures or when a few ships try to alleviate said sitch, they get bombed, paint balled, OZI'd, cluster bombed, F16 strafed or any other number of bits from the US war machine (except the OZI) something is seriously fucked up.
The 'STATE' of Israel is now complicit in genocide and has been trying for some time to wipe out the native Palestinians. Strangely, isn't that the very thing the jews vowed they would never let happen again?
I hate fuck'n hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perhaps those kids aren't starving because their parents have dug holes all over Palestine and are bringing in their own goods. When a group of people have to resort to such measures or when a few ships try to alleviate said sitch, they get bombed, paint balled, OZI'd, cluster bombed, F16 strafed or any other number of bits from the US war machine (except the OZI) something is seriously fucked up.
The 'STATE' of Israel is now complicit in genocide and has been trying for some time to wipe out the native Palestinians. Strangely, isn't that the very thing the jews vowed they would never let happen again?
I hate fuck'n hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!!!
Genocide? The West Bank isn't blockaded, the Palestinians with Israeli citizenship aren't blockaded.
I am not an Israeli apologist, just go back and look at some of the other threads on Israel in this website. But there is just as much misinformation and over-rea......., oh don't worry, I'm being pedantic.
I am not an Israeli apologist, just go back and look at some of the other threads on Israel in this website. But there is just as much misinformation and over-rea......., oh don't worry, I'm being pedantic.
Slowman
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I think they thought it was understood...they would never let it happen again to THEMSELVES. I have a lot of sympathy for the Israelis, they are between a rock and a shit hole just trying to survive surrounded by any number of idiots who have vowed to wipe the Jewish state from the face of the earth. I can see how that might lead to paranoia and a siege mentality as well as dependence on force. Eloquent arguments asserting the right of the Jewish state to exist without force wouldn't get a listen to...the problem though is that this mentality becomes so strategic in its thinking that the ends justify the means of just about anything. I think they have crossed that line many times but opening fire on the aid flotilla kind of highlights this IMHO to the rest of us.
They're wrong, they've been wronged, 2 wrongs don't make a right but the fanatics on either side see no middle ground and don't want to compromise one bit. It is the principle of the thing, people will do evil monstrous things in the name of their principles. One could easily draw the conclusion that all religion is bad. You can only make so many excuses for either side.
I know how these things work; I have 2 daughters
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.
Rwanda was genocide, the holocaust was genocide, the Serbian extermination squads were genocide, Saddam gassing the Kurds was genocide. The occupation of Gaza and the targeted killings of known militant leaders could be called many things, but not genocide. If Israel wanted to wipe out Palestine, they could; yet they haven't and that is probably because they don't really want to. Keep in mind Israel actually have an Arab population that haven't been deported or exterminated, so the Jews are most likely more interested in the submission of Gaza's population than it's destruction. I'm pretty sure Israel actually withdrew from and opened the borders into Gaza during Fatah's reign, they closed the borders and instigated the blockade when Hamas won the elections and started chest beating.
Israel's primary concern seems to be keeping arms from getting to Hamas militants and being used against Israeli citizens. There are a few Arab nations and one Persian nation trying to incite genocide by calling for the destruction of Israel, but tough talk and genocide are poles apart. If Israel were rounding up Palestinian civilians, killing them indiscriminantely and burying the bodies in mass graves you could claim genocide. Until then take off the tin foil hat, it's ruining your ability to think clearly.
Moggio
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I think Johnny has been doing a reasonable job keeping this thread in the realms of analysis rather than ranting. Its very easy to have a nice ranting thread which doesn't go anywhere except people can vent. Trust me I vent on this issue in the right place.
Trying to actually back up what you are saying and have a reasoned opinion on it and you come out more knowledgable and more convincing such that in a discussion you might actually alter someones opinion.
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Bermshot
Banned
Come on johnny this thread would be nothing without your input so I hope your not going to go sentimental on us.
So if you have an Israeli Passport/Citizenship then you are free to travel? What of the Palestinian woman who have been in birth and been forcefully stoped and made to wait whilst in the back of an ambo? In many cases the newborns have died and some cases the mothers also. That is not a blockade, I would call that systematic genocide.
As already stated, there are no morals here.
So if you have an Israeli Passport/Citizenship then you are free to travel? What of the Palestinian woman who have been in birth and been forcefully stoped and made to wait whilst in the back of an ambo? In many cases the newborns have died and some cases the mothers also. That is not a blockade, I would call that systematic genocide.
As already stated, there are no morals here.
Oh my last post was purely tongue in cheek, I hate coming off like sounding argumentative or always correcting dudes. I am pedantic on issues like this as well because that's what I do. But this is not a paper, it's a chat amongst e-mates.
And as to the Palestinian Israelis, I totally agree that their existence is FAR from enviable and there may be some very strong arguments for discrimination against them and other non-Jewish members of Israeli society. Same goes for the WB citizens, I'm not jealous of them at all. I just don't think it amounts to genocide, that's all.
And as to the Palestinian Israelis, I totally agree that their existence is FAR from enviable and there may be some very strong arguments for discrimination against them and other non-Jewish members of Israeli society. Same goes for the WB citizens, I'm not jealous of them at all. I just don't think it amounts to genocide, that's all.
Bermshot
Banned
Without a decent place to 'vent' with intelligent adults about such subjects I would easily go nuts.
Of course this subject will not be resolved here, but I do believe if we keep our heads up and our eyes open we will find the truth one day, I just hope we see the truth and be able to correct it before it is irrevocably lost.
Of course this subject will not be resolved here, but I do believe if we keep our heads up and our eyes open we will find the truth one day, I just hope we see the truth and be able to correct it before it is irrevocably lost.
Bermshot
Banned
Threw this in for another take. Make no mistake about it, our Government sits idly by also.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...3BlZXBfZQRzbGsDcQ--?qid=20100602195107AAKM59s
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...3BlZXBfZQRzbGsDcQ--?qid=20100602195107AAKM59s
Answer 11 was a cracker, a very informed and tolerant opinion not reeking of hypocrisy at all
Why do you think that is? Rudd loves the international stage and showing diplomatic leadership, why is he sitting idle?
It doesn't benefit the national interest to take a stand on this issue in anyway, so why do it?
I agree with Rudd..., for once. Remember, he's not there to be the moral conduit of our nation. He's there to look after our best interest. Let the academics and clergy play the moral game.
Bermshot
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zanus
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They do now supply weapons for such countries as India, and the US were tempted to use the Tavor as their new specal forces assault rifle. They are way ahead of everyone with intelligence, and they do have minimum serving time for all teenagers.
Bermshot
Banned
I'll chuck this in before I go for a beer.
Not rense, just the article.
http://www.rense.com/general17/men.htm
Not rense, just the article.
http://www.rense.com/general17/men.htm
Wow, I am so much dumber for having read that yahoo page.
Israel largely uses US air craft, US munitions (such as JDAMS and so on), Israel doesn't have bunker busting tech, launch or mid phase missile interception tech, the satellite coverage, etc. etc. Israel's intelligence edge is humint based.
Israel is a population of only 7+ million. that is not a big enough economy to have a domestic military manufacturing capability to stand alone against some high-tech - or access to high tech - neighbours.
Israel could not stand without the US and the military grants it receives.
Israel largely uses US air craft, US munitions (such as JDAMS and so on), Israel doesn't have bunker busting tech, launch or mid phase missile interception tech, the satellite coverage, etc. etc. Israel's intelligence edge is humint based.
Israel is a population of only 7+ million. that is not a big enough economy to have a domestic military manufacturing capability to stand alone against some high-tech - or access to high tech - neighbours.
Israel could not stand without the US and the military grants it receives.